mercer09

So Tesla is tanking... your thoughts?

Recommended Posts

And how does any of this relate to the antique car hobby?  I do get a bit “excited” about this topic but in reality it’s getting too far off topic even for me.  I enjoy the banter about autos and the collecting and restoration/ repair of them so I’m going to do my best to stay out of the trap that lures me back to participate and at times defend my beliefs on current autos.  In closing, did you see where the DOJ is investing Ford?  Are we going to see another VW like cover up?  stay tuned!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Penske PC-7 said:

If you want an electric car, fine. Just don't try to sell it to others based on manipulated pseudo science.

 

My feelings exactly. it's just a gimmick for the people building them for those that believe they need one.

 

The true marketing appeal of an electric car can be summed up this way: If there was a vehicle for sale with a two gallon gas tank that took eight hours to fill with a not readily available fuel and this gas tank cost 8500 dollars and needed to be replaced every five years, how many people would buy one? That is exactly what people are buying when they buy an electric car. Weigh the environmental impact of manufacturing the batteries, mining the lithium, coal burning generation of the electricity used, dealing with the toxic waste of battery disposal, it's doubtful the gains are all that worthwhile from an environmental standpoint.

 

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

God's commandment for us to wreck the planet,

 

Who is wrecking the planet now? If we look at it historically, we're doing a much better job now than we were say a hundred years ago. Back then air quality wasn't even a consideration. Imagine whole cities heating with coal, in the winter time the smog was so heavy people could barely breathe. Window panes were brown from residue of coal smoke. Even here in the US we were destroying our ecosystem, no doubt about it. I grew up in  Detroit and I've seen the changes myself, at one time the Detroit river was black and poisonous, now it is clean and there are trout and walleye in the Detroit river. The Rouge river that runs past the Ford Rouge plant caught fire and it took a long time to put out, some flammable chemical was floating on top and burning. That isn't the case today, strict environmental rules were put in place back in the 70's and it is a much different situation now. Even air quality, of course the loss of industry has helped in that regard, but there are no more factories belching smoke in to the atmosphere, they all had to clean up their act and they did. So what else can be done? Go without any industry? New York's Mayor is trying to outlaw skyscrapers because of all the steel and glass. The folks that espouse these desires have no comprehension of what they are truly asking. As I was told a long time ago 'Be careful what you ask for, ya might get it"

 

-Ron

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

Who is wrecking the planet now? If we look at it historically, we're doing a much better job now than we were say a hundred years ago. Back then air quality wasn't even a consideration. Imagine whole cities heating with coal, in the winter time the smog was so heavy people could barely breathe. Window panes were brown from residue of coal smoke. Even here in the US we were destroying our ecosystem, no doubt about it. I grew up in  Detroit and I've seen the changes myself, at one time the Detroit river was black and poisonous, now it is clean and there are trout and walleye in the Detroit river. The Rouge river that runs past the Ford Rouge plant caught fire and it took a long time to put out, some flammable chemical was floating on top and burning. That isn't the case today, strict environmental rules were put in place back in the 70's and it is a much different situation now. Even air quality, of course the loss of industry has helped in that regard, but there are no more factories belching smoke in to the atmosphere, they all had to clean up their act and they did. So what else can be done? Go without any industry? New York's Mayor is trying to outlaw skyscrapers because of all the steel and glass. The folks that espouse these desires have no comprehension of what they are truly asking. As I was told a long time ago 'Be careful what you ask for, ya might get it"

 

-Ron

 

baa85003ad43e9f09844da289bd9ad49.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Locomobile said:

New York's Mayor is trying to outlaw skyscrapers because of all the steel and glass

And hot dogs. To reduce cow farts I guess. I'm sure glad I live in the country surrounded by my own 100 acres...........Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TerryB said:

And how does any of this relate to the antique car hobby?

 

I've been mulling that over.

 

I got interested in old cars because of a general fascination with mechanical things and seeing how different they thought about solving problems than we do now. For the first three decades of the automobile's existence there were all sorts of innovation in the design of cars. Lots of things were tried and abandoned. Makes for a wonderful era to study or collect cars from.

 

About the only two things I can think of that was original to the period from the mid-1950s until the advent of significant smog controls in the 1970s were cruise control and disc brakes. Twenty years of stasis and blah in my opinion. Many people like cars of that era, more power to them but they are of no particular interest to me.

 

Starting with the first, in my mind horrible, attempts at significant control of emissions and accelerating later with computerized control of the engine and now other systems, new cars became interesting to me. The engineers are again pushing the envelope with things like CVT, hybrid drive systems, EV with significant range, and now autonomous operation. Many of these designs will pass by the wayside just as many designs from the 1900s through the 1930s passed by the wayside. But some will endure. It is interesting to see what types of things are being tried to solve real or perceived problems.

 

If your automotive preferences are based on styling, it is probably a horrible thing to look at many new cars. If your preferences are based on the smell of gas and oil or the sound and feel of a big V8 rumbling along, it is probably a horrible era to look at new cars. But if you are interested in automotive technology, it is another golden era: Lots of fascinating things are being tried.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks but no, I dealt with lots of automation technology at work. Computer load sharing on a multiple prime mover ship, with PTO generators thrown into the mix. 4 main engines , two shafts and CP props. And a deisel stand by genset on a UPS power management system. A split buss system as there was no way you could keep the cycles in sync when the ship was turning. So much computerization, so many things to check when it didn't all get along. Or when a component or wire or connection failed. The ship was every now and then out of service for a few days while teams of us traced every circuit and connection and device looking for the fault that threw it all into a tizzy.

  KISS, keep it simple stupid. Words that now that I am retired I really take to heart.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting that many of the comments deal with the need for governmental regulation of " global climate change", while the real issue is how our politicians can create yet another crisis.

They have all learned that crisis management leads to study groups, legal reviews, and site visits while staying at The Four Seasons.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incredible that this has gone on for 21 pages, maybe we need an "off topic" forum ?

 

Climate change has been around for eons with many long-term swings from "hotter" to "colder" and back. Coming out of the "little ice age" people are surprised it is getting warmer ?

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2019 at 9:16 AM, Locomobile said:

Tesla was an advocate for alternating current, and showed no interest in storing electricity in a DC configuration in a battery.

 

Tesla invented the polyphase AC system. This is the system of propulsion in the Tesla car. Why would he not like it?

 

Can't store AC power in AC form, except strange ways, like storing it as water at the top of a mountain !  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_County_Pumped_Storage_Station

Even if you put AC into a capacitor, it comes out as DC if the storage time is long.

So, batteries it is.👍

 

Convert stored energy in batteries to AC using a variable speed drive (variable frequency drive) and you have a Tesla, or Prius, or Leaf, or Volt, or Bolt, or GM full sized pick up truck.....................  The only difference is how you charge the batteries! All these vehicles use polyphase AC motors.

 

Heck, even the US military is looking into hybrids:     http://www.hybrid-vehicle.org/hybrid-truck-hemtt.html

 

That's what our tax dollars into battery research are doing. Military needs (you know, defense of our nation) drives research into new dimensions.

 

DC motors for high horsepower are so 1890!😊

Edited by Frank DuVal (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, this thread is supposed to be about Tesla-what I am surprised at is that we didnt get any discussion on early electrics and the advantages of the Tesla today.

 

what mistakes has Tesla made vs gains in automotive society today? What improvements could be made? (not speaking of only economics here)

 

I am pleased to see so many different opinions and not just black and white logic.

 

This thread did exactly what I had hoped for-

+

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had dinner with my oldest last week and we were talking about Tesla.   I told her I was thinking about a model S (or a 3500 Ram Diesel to give you an idea of my brain).   She got excited and said I would go up 5 notches on the cool scale if I did that.   I guess the Diesel stick isn't as cool as it was 25 years ago.    My daughter is no green weenie but to her generation the Tesla is what the "GTO" was to mine.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mercer09 said:

what I am surprised at is that we didnt get any discussion on early electrics and the advantages of the Tesla today.

 

Because other than small improvements in a sleek futuristic gadget infused package, there really aren't any. These factors remain, short range, considerable time to recharge, degrading battery life, battery cost.

8 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Tesla invented the polyphase AC system. This is the system of propulsion in the Tesla car. Why would he not like it?

 

Because of the battery, I'm certain he would have considered it elementary and pointless. He had ideas and even carried out successful experiments for electric cars, boats etc, but the AC electricity was transmitted by wireless means to a receiver- no battery. Have a look at his experiments, that is the direction he was going, but the powers that be were afraid of him as he threatened their monopolies and they stifled his efforts at every opportunity. His plan was free electricity for everyone on the planet to power their lives, based on understanding that electricity is ever present and only needs to be harnessed and transmitted. Does this sound like Elon Musk at all? The Tesla car is 180° away from the direction Tesla was working.

 

-Ron

Edited by Locomobile (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tesla's notion of omnidirectional wireless transmission of electrical power violates the inverse square law. And he had an all-consuming love affair with his bird. A pigeon, I believe.   -   Carl 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, C Carl said:

Tesla's notion of omnidirectional wireless transmission of electrical power violates the inverse square law.

 

That was debunked 70 years ago. Tesla like anyone with great ideas ( Pioneers get the arrows) was under an all out attack by the media which was owned by the same corporations that he threatened. He was crazy, he was in love with a pigeon etc.

 

-Ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ron, are you saying that the inverse square law has been debunked as regards Tesla's wireless transmission of electrical power ? Now, please understand, I am one of the least educated participants here. I mean that. We might end up having to ask Frank DuVal, TerryB, Bloo, or some of our other electrical engineers to step in. Those guys must be among the most highly educated participants when it comes to matters electrical. As I recognize I am ill-educated, (seriously), I always try to defer to those who know way more than I do. That is why I hire specialists when I need them. Also how I was able to make many millions of dollars in the dot com bubble, burst, and gradual recovery. Please tell me how wireless transmission of electro-motive power can be more efficient than hard wired.  -   Carl 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2019 at 7:12 AM, autoluke said:

while the real issue is how our politicians can create yet another crisis. 

 

If one wants to witness a real crisis ask the next climate regulation supporter how many kilowatt hours were charged on their last electric bill. You will get the deer in the headlights stare. Most don't have a clue of how much they are using, but know all about what others need to do. Yes, especially the politicians.

There was a big party in Washington, DC when power plant regulations were tightened by the last administration. But they, apparently, didn't know the light switch was connected to the power plant.

DCnightsmall.jpg.300bc5b8aba0a52d1ae49d07e5fed1b1.jpg

 

Ask your state comptroller when someone walked through the capitol building at midnight to see if the lights were left on. They don't think of that, they look at windmills to buy.

"Increased renewable energy means everyone can leave ALL the lights on".

 

Regulations demand a car gets 50 MPG. The owner says "My car gets 50 MPG. We take more trips than we ever did!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may have missed it but what about the emissions to build a electric car. I've read that its hard if not impossible to calculate the emissions total in building a car because of the globalization of the manufacturing. With batteries made of lithium (Which can't be a environmentally happy substance) are we replacing drilling for oil with mining lithium, albeit at lesser quantity but how much lithium is there on the planet.

I had a 1992 Geo metro It got 49MPG with todays technology and without gizmology (adding technology to technology) couldn't they do better. Yes, The metro was light, slow and not very safe but it was a 1992. I guess its what is expected out of a new car these days, quick acceleration(i.e. high HP), AC, Lots of other dodads that sort of car is not feasible. Our current automobile show the affluence of our nation most definitely. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the emissions created from manufacturing my '60 Electra and '64 Riviera were incinerated during nuclear tests in the 1970's and 1980's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Locomobile said:

His plan was free electricity for everyone on the planet to power their lives, based on understanding that electricity is ever present and only needs to be harnessed and transmitted. Does this sound like Elon Musk at all?

 

Sounds exactly like some of Elon Musk's ideas!😂

 

If you think the EMF nuts are worried about electric fields now around their home and schools, imagine how bad the EMF fields will be if you transmitted megawatts of AC to power the world with ll the losses being stray fields! We will all be EMF nuts!😁

 

Free electricity? So Tesla was an early socialist? He was just going to get Edison to pay for it.....!👍

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Locomobile said:
13 hours ago, C Carl said:

Tesla's notion of omnidirectional wireless transmission of electrical power violates the inverse square law.

 

That was debunked 70 years ago.

 

Right, inverse square law is not debunked. Whereon Earth did you read that? 

 

If it was debunked, there would be no need for directional transmitting antennas!  Or reflectors on lighting. Or gun barrels!    😉

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Right, inverse square law is not debunked. Whereon Earth did you read that? 

 

It was debunked when applied to Tesla's theory on the transmission of electricity.

 

Fellas, I am going to exit the discussion about Nikola Tesla. I was questioned why I thought he wouldn't like his name being used by Musk and his battery car, hopefully I explained that.

 

-Ron

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, countrytravler said:

Heading out with a load.

59523372_10218438353973717_2439300051260932096_n.jpg

As a guy who has to haul cars one at a time on a rented U-Haul trailer, there’s something really compelling about your rig.👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.