Simnut

Help to identify the car I just received

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First time poster and first time antique car owner.  I've tried to do some research on this running Buick which I was told is a 1926.  But, I have a feeling it's a 1923 2 door sedan going by looks and engine number. And now I'm getting totally confused LOL  Hence me coming to the experts here and see if I can get any answers.  This maybe a combination of two vehicles...I don't know.

 

WB: 118"

Engine #: 909339 (Stamped on the drivers side near the oil pan and towards the front)

Frame #:  869070 (On a small plaque mounted on the frame, drivers side behind the front wheel)

6 Bolts showing on rear hubs

12 Bolts showing on front hubs

Only has rear brakes (In '24 they went to front and rear brakes, correct me if I'm wrong)

Top rad hose enters the engine in two locations on the top

Artillery wheels

Round air intake manifold

Split front window

Gabrielle snubbers all the way around

 

I am taking pictures today....but will need to figure out how to load them up here.  Any help would be muchly appreaciated!!!!!!! 

 

Ps: My question...what year and model do I have? :D

 

Harry

Edited by Simnut (see edit history)

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The fire wall in the engine compartment has a tag on it.  It will say something like 23-48 which would be a 1923 model 48.  You should have an engine number tag on the carburetor side of the engine block.  There is also a serial number tag on the frame in the left front wheel area near where the steering arm comes thru. 

That is a nice looking car.   Did you get a title?  Welcome and thanks for posting pictures.    Hugh

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1 hour ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

The fire wall in the engine compartment has a tag on it.  It will say something like 23-48 which would be a 1923 model 48.  You should have an engine number tag on the carburetor side of the engine block.  There is also a serial number tag on the frame in the left front wheel area near where the steering arm comes thru. 

That is a nice looking car.   Did you get a title?  Welcome and thanks for posting pictures.    Hugh

 

Here in BC I will be going for a builders registration when I'm ready to get it on the road.  It's drive"able" right now but needs some work.  lol  

I believe I found the engine number but it was stamped into the block .  It is 909339.  The serial number  is 869070.  It came to me as a '26 but the numbers and the brakes didn't add up to that. ;)

Thanks for the welcome also sir!

Edited by Simnut (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Leif Holmberg said:

1923 first year with that type of fenders.

Leif in Sweden

 

Are you able to determine what model it is sir?  I think you are correct with the year.  I will also look for the tag that Hugh mentioned and post if and when I find it . :D

 

Hugh, there is no tag on the firewall :(

Edited by Simnut (see edit history)

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What a great original  23  Model 41 you have there.  Even with the trunk.  This was the first year for the two door sedan/coach.  They came out in both the six and the four cylinder.

SCAN0041.JPG

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Thanks for all the help gents!!!!  You are steering me in the correct direction!  And I appreciate it very much.  You will see me on this board asking for a LOT more advice!  Thanks again!

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Here is a question that I am struggling with.  Is the value in this car as a survivor.....a restored car or using those sweet body lines with a more modern chassis?  The latter was my original intention  but the more I research her....the more I'm not sure that's the way to go.  What is your learned opinion sirs?  I do realize it's not a collector car...any advice?

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Most of us on this site will encourage you to keep the original driveline.  For any vintage vehicle, be aware of both the capabilities and limitations.  Two of the limitations are speed and braking.  Plan on 35-40 mph cruise (add 10-15) if you add an overdrive.  You'll have 2-wheel brakes, as do my two oldest cars below.  That limitation is that, although I can lock up the wheels, only two small tire patches work on the pavement; one must drive carefully.  That said, your car is about to turn 96 years old and is a marvelous, instructive artifact that will give you and many members of the public much joy as it bears witness to what the industry produced in that period.

 

I've driven my 1918 Pierce 3,700 miles since acquiring it in January 2016, and in the next five weeks I'll put another 1,200 miles on it on three tours.  I tell everyone this car provides me and others "more smiles per mile" than any other car I've ever had.

 

At very least, I urge you to defer any judgment to change it until you have this car properly sorted and experience what only an original car of this vintage can provide!

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Since there is no original paint, I don't see it going the "survivor" route.  The charm of these cars is to have them take you back to the era IMO.  Most on this site focus on putting the cars back as original - restored.  Installing a modern drivetrain will help it go faster and stop better, but there are so many other items that fall short of being available on modern cars, I would not go thru the effort.  You have a much more engaging conversation with others when you show people that the state of the art at the time was rod operated brakes with bands and on the rear wheels only.  In the next 2 years almost all if not all manufacturers move to 4 wheel brakes.  Your car is like the 80's technology boom only in the 20's with a mechanical car.  There are some upgrades that you can do to what you have, but the simplest thing to do is get the mechanicals functioning, see how you like it, and then make the decision to stick with it or do a conversion.   If the motor is operational, it will bring more if it is in running condition if you do decide to change the drive train.   You have a rare and expensive car for its day.  We can help you with correct colors too.  I find it interesting that certain models were painted 1 color for a year.  Your car was a medium maroon color.  I find even the fact that you have a trunk on the car is very unique, as most cars only had a small amount of storage under the seat or you put your stuff on the running boards.  

1492798312_Buickcolors1.thumb.jpg.ac1d752e47255f46fcaadffafa2eaabb.jpg930889926_Buickcolors2.thumb.jpg.e3d75cb10f41f08886e84b6797990d09.jpg

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Here are the place where to find the "tag" on the cowl. Picture of the model you have,scanned from the really good and useful book"70 Yeras of Buick,by George  H Dammann

That`s a very rare model of a 1923 Buick.

Leif in Sweden.

Buick 1923 0018 Torped 001.jpg

IMG.jpg

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Gentlemen, I am taking all your advice to heart......please be assured of that.  The reason I asked for advice regarding what I should do with the car is because I was starting to realize that she may not deserved to be converted, she needs to stay original as possible.  As I mentioned before, she is a running car, I drove it up and off my equipment trailer on a very steep roadway.  She even spun the right rear wheel (in the dirt) , no blue smoke coming out of the tail pipe and has an awesome sound.  All the parts for the headlights, spare tire mount (including the spare tire) etc are there.  Things such as the Gabrielle snubbers need to be rebuilt....but even the webbing is still there.  I enjoy woodwork ....so working on the interior wouldn't be an issue.  All the gauges and clock work......

 

The more I go over the car, the more I start to appreciate the era as mentioned by my advisors here.  ;)  Like you've said, the conversations that would arise when people walk up to her and inspect her are worth it alone!

 

I may just have to find another candidate for a conversion which entered my mind even after the first day I had her....hence all my questions.  Stand by for many more questions over the next month or two. Part of the enjoyment is the research of such a vehicle.

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Welcome to the most helpful vintage car forum on the internet. I understand this is your first really old car and also that you originally had aspirations to go the modified route.Before you do that, Google "vintage car wrecks" or something like that on Images. None of us wants an accident, but to have a serious one in a car like this would be nasty. I watched a pair of videos on line recently showing crash tests of a 1929 and a 1959 Chevrolet. They don't build them like they used to, thankfully. I own four pre-WW2 cars and have been in the hobby since 1961. I love them the way they were built, and am fully aware of their limitations in today's fast,distracted, impaired world. As has already been stated here, fix it up to the point where you can experience what driving a 96 year old car is like and enjoy the comments from fans at the shows. I recently won a fan favorite trophy with my '25 Buick coupe at a mostly rod and custom type event. it's nice to know that these rarely seen originals can still draw admirers .If you want to drive daily in today's traffic, drive a modern car.

Jim

1925 Buick ready to show ! 001.JPG

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I think I may have found a perfect first project car gents.  This one.  I think I will spend the winter doing what I can to restore this one as much as I can to original (not new) condition. She drives as she sits now....smells awesome and has good bones.   Learn as much as I can about this girl and keep her as she has been for the last 95 years.  I will keep an eye out for a hot rod project during that time but I don't think I can nor do I want to, corrupt this one.  What you all have been saying is sinking in.  If this one disappears, it's one less 1923 Buick out there and that shouldn't happen nor do I want to be responsible for that.  As with posters here, there is pride in keeping original cars original and showing them to others....let them learn about vehicle history.  Besides...it fits great on my equipment trailer, meaning I can go to car shows that are of some distance etc. without having to drive there.  I live on Vancouver Island in BC, Canada and roads like the Malahat are not conducive to this vehicle ;)  Besides, I think I have a wealth of resources and advice right here, all in one place. 

 

As an added note, I type in this car in Google and don't find many examples of this particular model so I will be on here ad nauseam and "bug" my consultants on here.  Anyone else here have a similar car? 

 

Edited by Simnut (see edit history)
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I am surprised that we have not seen Mark Shaw comment on this thread, but he is often on the Pre-War forum.  Try to reach him for help.  He live in WA near Portland, OR.

 

John

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Hi,

  It looks like a model 41, because of the trunk, but I think the 41 has a 124" wb  I think a model 40 would have 118"

The body tag should be above the right toe board should say 23-6-41?

Where are you located? A pic of the back would help id

There are many of us that would be willing to help.

 

Welcome,

John  1922-6-55 Sport touring

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Harry,

    Congratulations on your new old Buick!  I have been a bit busy lately working on my own Buicks; and that is why I am a bit late to these postings.  I recently disassembled a 23 Buick for Brian Heil and still have a few left over parts if you need them.  There are also three other 23 Buick owners who live near me in SW Washington.  So you will have lots of help in getting your car in shape for touring.  Just let us know what you need in the way of parts or information and I am sure you will be able to get what you need... 

     Send me a PM with your email address & I will get you in touch with another Buick owner on Vancouver Island.

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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Simnut:

 Welcome to the forum. I concur with the above comments. We are all at the ready to offer assistance. I believe there have been 3 of these model 41s show up on the forum over the last 2 years. One was a very nice, very original, family owned vehicle for sale. I have yet to locate the notice. But it was a color photo car in "The Buick A Complete History". One was on the Richmond VA craigslist as something hibernating since the 1940s. I did find the thread on that and have included a photo.

1502480018_00O0O_2e8QSSawGIJ_1200x900.jpg.ab92b3b58e171d93a1768b00df2dde661.thumb.jpg.b70f3b97b52658da06ebf37080b50ba6.jpg1553109495_01515_cdfC89frLja_1200x900.thumb.jpg.9ef2ce4b080a8b167962bbb603ccf4c11.jpg.2acbbb57b821631e157cd2eacff659bb.jpgThere are more images of this car on the BING search.

There was one other which I have not located in similar condition to the one in the photo. Also several of the 4 cylinder versions have surfaced (Model 23-38). As of the last BCA roster there was only (1) 23-41. In older rosters I know there were more. There are more images on the BING search

 

 

 

 

Edited by dibarlaw
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Simnut, you’ve received som excellent advice and are going in a proper direction, at least in my opinion. Thee are plenty of other candidates out there which would be more appropriate to streetrod.

 

Welcome to the forum. Some of the best folks and advice anywhere!

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Harry,

   A lot of good people on the AACA & Buick Forums, like Mark Shaw and Terry Wiegand, who may be able to help you with identification(looks like some people already have). I like the looks of the car. It's in much better shape than a lot of people start with. You could have started with something like this:

13A.jpg

A 4-cylinder 1923 Buick selling at a Saskatchewan auction on Sept. 15th. Mack  Auction Company photo

 

Yours looks a lot better! That's great that it runs......and you drove it up a steep slope. I looked in my copy of The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942(Kimes and Clark,1612 pages) and it has yours the third most expensive Buick you could buy in '23 of the 15 styles and models available. $865-$2,195 was the range, $1,935 for the 2-door 5-P Touring Sedan and $2,195 for the 7-P Sedan. A 5-Pass. 4-dr. Sedan was the 2nd most expensive. It also says the six that year had 242 Cu. In.; a cast iron block; 60 h.p.(a lot for 1923);  Buick built its 1,000,000th car March 21st, and a specially-prepared Mod. 54 2-Dr. Sport Roadster hit 108.24 mph at Muroc Dry Lake(not too shabby). Options: disc wheels, front bumper, spotlight, white sidewall tires, wind wings, spare tire cover, taillights(diamond-shaped), and heater(Perfection types AB, GB). You probably aren't interested because of the distance, but you could take 1 to 5 days of antique auto restoration classes in November. The largest car museum in the country, Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin, Alberta has classes giving you an overview of things like metal repair, painting, and researching a car.

 

   My opinion on adding a modern chassis or engine. Some people claim hot rods are somehow worth more than antique cars, and using examples of ones that sell for 300 grand, but ignoring the hundreds that are for sale on places like autabuy.com and classiccars.com for a few thousand, or ones that people start but can't finish. Unless you are trying to build a cheap car out of mismatched parts(1932 Ford V-8 in a Model T Ford) or a drag-racing machine(427 supercharged V-8 in a Chevrolet Vega), like some of the earlier hot rods, one is building sort of an imaginary car. There never was a Hot Rod car company, so the thing is just disguising a car from one year to look like another year. Just my opinion, but this is an antique automobile forum. 

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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