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1911 - 1927 Locomobile 48 & 38 Gathering Place


alsfarms

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Here is a followup to a discussion on this picture and what I have learned about the Demarest Limousine shown.

'25 Locomobile NYS mansion  a.jpg

 

1-  The picture is staged in front of the Marina Mansion owned and build by P.T. Barnum in Bridgeport Connecticut. 

2- The body is a duplicate of the unrestored Locomobile Limousine I now own and shown elsewhere on this chat forum.  It is possible that the pictured Locmobile could be a publicity picture taken of my Locomobile but I can't determine a way to confirm that as a fact as yet. 

3-  I have confirmed that no decedent of P.T. Barnum, who owned the Marina Mansion in 1925, owned or registered a Locomobile in 1925, per this picture and per evaluation of all Passenger Cars Registered in Connecticut in 1926. 

4-  I was told, when I bought the unrestored Locomobile limousine that it had spent most of its life in the greater Bridgeport area and that could be true, but my Locomobile was not registered in Connecticut in 1926. 

5-  The search continues as I next plan to explore 1926 registration records, if available, from Massachusetts and New York states for my Locomobile serial number and to determine the original owner.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Al

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Yeah thanks!  Really, the picture you posted got me much more interested in the provenance factor of an automobile such as the Demarest Limousine.  My study of the Connecticut Registration records very much made me more aware just how rare some marques are and the significant diversity available in the 1920's.  Cadillac has a following now days and are good cars but were actually produced for a different clientele than was, Locomobile, Rolls Royce, the earlier Pierce-Arrows, Simplex, Daniels, Simplex-Crane and etc.  More appreciation is what I now have.

Al

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2 hours ago, alsfarms said:

If these are not Kellner, what are they.  I am not familiar at all.

Al

De Causse was hired away from Kellner in 1914. Probably a good idea to get out of France as WW1 was happening then in Europe. Because he came to Locomobile from Kellner people want the cachet of a French coach built body. There were a couple I posted to one of your questions but not this type.

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This is from a catalog copyrighted 1913 showing renderings of 1914 bodies for Locomobile. From this catalog forward there were no actual photos of cars but all styling renderings. More than likely DeCausse had nothing to do with the design.35D4D634-2F69-4ABB-B4F0-0F456968B547.jpeg.89c7c908baf5f6774c2f804ccc1f8a16.jpeg

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10 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Were these bodies cast aluminum or formed aluminum over a wood structure?  I have seen a couple of similar bodies by Pierce-Arrow that are all cast.

Al

Locomobile bodies had castings on some models under the windshields. Best I know P.A. was the only production cast bodies. Tremendous amount of work for what? Here’s a 1912 30 Locomobile with an earlier version of the same Berline.E17C1884-8E06-4AC2-9B48-B0B5BD769831.jpeg.2d807785bd0ed6dad4a5ed0737430c20.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Sadly, you are spot on!  Unless a closed body Locomobile has had good care and keeping (inside storage) the body works just don't hold up to mother nature and the forces of time!  The simple easy fix has been to build a speedster.

Al

Edited by alsfarms
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Here is the Locomobile Roadster spoken of earlier and has a fresh for sale listing in the HCCA for sale area.  Does anyone have more incites into this Locomobile?  Is it determined that this Locmobile is a rebody of a Locomobile that likely was modified into a truck then had the back of a roadster built to have a usable vehicle for modern hobby enjoyment?

Al

1925 Locomobile Model 48 Roadster

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here is a side note....

I am thinking that the Locomobile Demarest Limousine wheels, spoken of elsewhere in this forum, is painted the same red color that this Locmobile shows on its wheels and undercarriage.  Is red typical for wheels and chassis color.  Also, the Demarest Limousine has a body color that is very near the same as what this roadster has for body color.

Al

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Here is a reminder, the auction sell of this shown Locomobile ends on August 19.  Time is short if you are considering a bid.  (hmmmm, I notice the red wheels and undercarriage, yet again!?!?!)

Al

1925 Locomobile Model 48 Sportif

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Look what I saw on TV tonight -- the 1955 movie "The Long Gray Line" showed this 7-passenger Locomobile. That's Mareen O'Hara in the back seat. Unfortunately, the image was elongated by my television. In the movie, you can hear the Loco start up and drive away. The scene was set just after the end of World War I, so maybe 1919. 

Long Gray Line Loco.jpg

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11 hours ago, jrbartlett said:

Look what I saw on TV tonight -- the 1955 movie "The Long Gray Line" showed this 7-passenger Locomobile. That's Mareen O'Hara in the back seat. Unfortunately, the image was elongated by my television. In the movie, you can hear the Loco start up and drive away. The scene was set just after the end of World War I, so maybe 1919. 

Long Gray Line Loco.jpg

That color was used on Locomobile cars and catalogs. Don’t know what to say about the wheels being the same though. Maybe a darker blue might work.

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H.B. Carroll loved Locomobiles, and he also owned a 1925 Sportif that is now in my garage. The car in the photo is possibly here in Houston, partly disassembled. Not certain about that one. H.B. drove his Sportif to antique car tours throughout Texas in the '50s and '60s, and was a mover and shaker in the early years of the antique car hobby here in Texas.

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On 8/16/2022 at 1:55 PM, alsfarms said:

Here is a reminder, the auction sell of this shown Locomobile ends on August 19.  Time is short if you are considering a bid.  (hmmmm, I notice the red wheels and undercarriage, yet again!?!?!)

Al

1925 Locomobile Model 48 Sportif

Hammer + The Juice = $156,800

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The artist's rendering appears to depict a longer wheelbase car with much of the extra length in the hood. It seems like artists always depicted a longer car than was built.

 

I haven't noticed before but both depictions appear to show a belly pan. Did Locomobiles of 1925 vintage have whole belly pans?

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The belly pan is a very good question.  Could someone, who has a parts list, please respond.  It is my guess that if Locomobiles we're all equipped with one when new, I bet not many ever stayed in place after mechanical repairs or service work.  I do know that the earlier Locomobile offerings came with belly pans, but once again, were left off.  I know of a very nice restored early Locomobile that still has the original belly pan (in the rafters) not on the car.

Al

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1 minute ago, alsfarms said:

Interesting, I have never heard the term, " mud apron" before.  I will have to scrutinize the underpinnings of the 48 Limousine project and see if any attaching hardware is still evident.

Al

Most likely the studs are still in the bottom rail and or the radiator support.

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It looks like it would be relatively easy to make. I'm guessing it attaches to the front cross member and tapers down where it rounds on the bottom and tapers back up to the side rails and is open on the aft. The question would be does it attach to the crankcase and is open or is there a door in the bottom to access the oil pan.

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30 minutes ago, AHa said:

It looks like it would be relatively easy to make. I'm guessing it attaches to the front cross member and tapers down where it rounds on the bottom and tapers back up to the side rails and is open on the aft. The question would be does it attach to the crankcase and is open or is there a door in the bottom to access the oil pan.

You go make one. AHa ha ha ha.

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Here is a question, as I study and consider all that has been said from a historical perspective regarding the 1925 picture of the Marina Mansion and the "1925" Locomobile Limousine parked out front.  The picture is labeled 1925 and I guess it may be possible to be a spring season or later as a fall season promotional picture.  However, my guess is that this picture was actually taken in the fall of 1924 introducing the new 1925 Model 48 Locomobile and maybe an early spring of 1925, but I don't think so.   I just don't think Locomobile would invest in promotional pictures after the initial splash of the new model offerings, like in September or October, as the trees without leaves show.

Al

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Another thought, George do you know if Locomobile took acceptance pictures of new, finished, ordered Automobiles to supply to the purchasing customer?  I actually doubt that they did that unless you were a very special customer....and some were.
Al

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My 1919 Locomobile came with the original mud apron, though not mounted on the car. I have not yet installed it. Back when these cars were new, the apron generated a number of complaints to the factory because in deep snow, the apron would "plow" the snow, eventually forcing the car to a halt. I have some factory service correspondence that mentions this. My 1925 Loco does not have an apron on it, but I don't know if it started out with one.  

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I wonder if heating could have been a secondary issue for the use of a mud apron as the hoods do not have louvers to let engine heat out or the heated air that is pulled through the radiator core.  With no mud apron the engine compartment can certainly breath a bit more easily.  James, could you take a picture of your Mud Apron and post so we can see what the thing looks like?

Al

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