63 Riv AC flush and vacuum

[Turbinator]

On 5/7/2019 at 9:55 AM, 60FlatTop said:

Sounds good, 55 degrees, gray, and raining. I just turned up the heat in the garage hoping to go out and work later. BUT, just in case I ever do decide the climate change warrants making my AC work, how much does a set of Riviera triple wall hoses go for?

Bernie

John B, how long has the systembeen closed? Does the system work now? You can flush sections of system if you evacuate all the gas with a recovery system. I evacuated all the gas took

The whole AC apart and flushed everything I could with Cool.Put new O rings in and put it back together. Took it to a specialty AC shop in PA. The tech broke the valve in the STV. Then charged me $230.00 for labor. I drove home had the STV REBUILT for the 3 rd time. That’s when I decided if I put all new components back in it’s got to work. AC all put back together with everything new I could by and no leaks.

im waiting for warmer weather to charge with R12. Stay tuned.

John B, if you have the skill to diagnos and fix the problem do that. I could not do that so I replaced everything new. ( a fool and his $ soon part).

Turbinator

[XframeFX]

Thanks Bob and Don, I've been busy out-of-town. I do online stuff on a desktop computer and browse with my cellphone. Yes, there's no pressure in the system and everything is old. Only the vacuum hoses are open.

I was impressed with Old Air Products at the shows and among some of my parts, I purchased an "STV update Kit" thinking an update to an R134A cycling clutch is in my Riv's future. They have colour-code vacuum hoses as well. If I was anywhere near Ft. Worth, I'd take my Riv to them.

Thanks to this forum I have new insight but would still like to farm out the job. Although I live in a major center, there's no facility I'm aware of that I'd trust. I'll keep looking and do a flush for starters.

However, my priority is to put my Riv on-the-road! Then I'll look at the AC. Also on my list is swapping the Dynaflow for an ST-400, I have all parts except I'm missing the kickdown/variable switch bracket. Bob, I think that transmission swap is going to cost me like your pursuit for cold air was!

My'63 Riviera replaced my 1st Riv in 1989 which I acquired in 1980! Family and kids has had my Riv in storage since the early '90s! Now that they are all all grown-up, one of them showed interest "you can have it for free and I'll help you to get it going". He lost interest after about 6 weeks of father and son. I've been working on it since 2017. My Riv is lucky to have me as an Owner because I am apparently OCD on insisting everything must work!

Bob, with your humid summers, I hope you have cold air once that R12 is in! I definitely appreciate sharing your learnings.

John B.

[Turbinator]

13 hours ago, XframeFX said:

Thanks Bob and Don, I've been busy out-of-town. I do online stuff on a desktop computer and browse with my cellphone. Yes, there's no pressure in the system and everything is old. Only the vacuum hoses are open.

I was impressed with Old Air Products at the shows and among some of my parts, I purchased an "STV update Kit" thinking an update to an R134A cycling clutch is in my Riv's future. They have colour-code vacuum hoses as well. If I was anywhere near Ft. Worth, I'd take my Riv to them.

Thanks to this forum I have new insight but would still like to farm out the job. Although I live in a major center, there's no facility I'm aware of that I'd trust. I'll keep looking and do a flush for starters.

However, my priority is to put my Riv on-the-road! Then I'll look at the AC. Also on my list is swapping the Dynaflow for an ST-400, I have all parts except I'm missing the kickdown/variable switch bracket. Bob, I think that transmission swap is going to cost me like your pursuit for cold air was!

My'63 Riviera replaced my 1st Riv in 1989 which I acquired in 1980! Family and kids has had my Riv in storage since the early '90s! Now that they are all all grown-up, one of them showed interest "you can have it for free and I'll help you to get it going". He lost interest after about 6 weeks of father and son. I've been working on it since 2017. My Riv is lucky to have me as an Owner because I am apparently OCD on insisting everything must work!

Bob, with your humid summers, I hope you have cold air once that R12 is in! I definitely appreciate sharing your learnings.

John B.

John, Great note full on substance and interest. Is your Dyna Flow not working right? I like my DynaFlow quite a bit. I’m not a speedster, but I like to push the accelerator to the floor now and again. The acceleration is a tad bit sluggish, but I like the reverb and crackle in my exhaust. Get the car going first and catch the AC when you can. Pulling a vacuum I’m sure you know is different from a flush. My opinion is not test for leaks with compressed air b/c of moisture in the system. I use dry nitrogen to test for leaks and soapy water. You can flush lines, condenser, evaporator, TXV and get a good clean system . Rinse the compressor with the same oil as the system specifies.  John, if I’m repeating myself or write like I’m telling you what to do I mean no harm. Having jacked around with SOB AC I would not wish failure on my worst enemy. So, my comments are meant to be helpful and not sound like an expert.

if you have an A6 compressor and it is somewhat new don’t worry about the clutch and the STV update working together. Yeah, it would be great if the STV (3 rebuilds) in my experience worked out. Two tip offs early in the game got my attention: no one sells new or rebuilt STV per se. Second, a pro parts rebuilder in Florida said once the STV sticks you can never get them right. The rebuilder went on to offer a right up with pics why the STV would be difficult to keep clean and working. I was sold on the STV eliminator kit. You are smart to rebuild the AC system yourself. Where ever you are finding a competent and conscientious vintage car AC mechanic may not be possible. Oh, if you charge your system with 134a consider having the hoses rebuilt. The old R12 hoses I’ve been told by many in the know will leak the 134a. John, the R12 will be charged in the AC within the remaining days of May. I’m having a real AC pro and friend charge the system with R12.  ( reason my friend did not rebuild my AC is he partially disabled and has limited energy )

Turbinator

[XframeFX]

Bob, from what I remember, the manual low band would not engage and I wondered if the variable pitch worked at all. Otherwise, it functioned OK back in the day. Before I had the Riv painted in '91, I farmed-out the Dynaslow rebuild, installed it myself and it leaked badly. Brought the whole car to them where they removed and patched it up. They broke my signal light cable and reluctantly did a N/C fix. Then I gutted the interior, stripped it for paint. After being painted, I started putting it back together but then kids came and a new house where I drove the Riv to it's new home sitting on a milk crate! So here in 2019 and on the home stretch, I plan to enjoy the Riv and it's Dynaflow come summer or bust!

A 1965 ST-400 has been in my possession since 1980 and was meant for my 1st Riv, just a core now. Collected parts for the swap during the last 2 years just so I have it. One part, the 400 Trans mount, came out of a gutted '64 X-block Riv in a northern wrecking yard. I removed the last remaining parts that others have overlooked. But I left the STV on it. I will get it the next time, being just a core of course

As for the AC, my A6 compressor has a yellow "Buick" stamp. Nitrogen is-a-plenty around here. The test will tell me how big the undertaking will be. I do want to fit those color coded vacuum hoses shortly. Where did you source yours?

I have learned a lot on this car and the differences that the early '63s had.

Bob, nice to see you can standby and watch your friend do the final touches. Let us know that you have finally achieved Canadian Cold!

John B.

 

[Turbinator]

Gents - This being the third season I worked on the 63 AC. All new components other than STV, which is by passed by an electronic switch that attaches to the suction pipe that exits the evaporator box.

This STV by pass should be put on before you install the evaporator box. If your hoses are 55 plus years old so suggest you get the hoses rebuilt to handle 134a even if you are still using R12.

installing the evaporator box is real hard. I mean real hard to get everything lined up.

If you are considering a major overhaul of your stock AC you should check out an after market AC solution.

Truth told Tom Telesco finalized installation.,I had problems under standing the wonky high and low pressure reading. Knowing what is going on with the AC system as you install the system is critical to your success. There is a reason people are certified to work on AC.

There is no comparison of AC skill sets with changing s steeringbox or shocks. You really must understand the refrigeration cycle and what the components do so you can figure out what to do when the system frumps out.  I had the AC system all together and tight as a drum ( my gauges revealed I had a leak). I moved forward and charged the AC with some R12. The R 12 would not go into the AC system. Tom Telesco found the AC muffler had about 4 Oz of oil in it blocking the flow of R12. Tom found the blockage by test for pressure check one connection at a time. Once the blockage was unblocked. Tom charged the system with 4lbs 11 Oz.of R12. The specs in the 63 Service Manual spells out 3.5 lbs of R12 for the 4700. The temp

coming out of the center vent was 46 F on the first try. 46F is the coldest the system has registered as long as I’ve had the car. Tom believes he can get the temp down to 38 F. When Tom gets the 38 F from the center vent I’ll let you know.

if you know how AC mobile systems  work Or have a working knowledge of refrigeration I would have a plan that has expert support  before I would attempt a DIY. I should not forget the control side of the AC. Knowledge of how vacuum switches and vacuum actuators work is needed so you can get the cold air in the cabin. The AC project has been a good learning experience, but so much more to learn.

Turbinator

 

 

[XframeFX]

Bob, dabbling into this with feedback from everyone, I'm inclined to stay original. Being familiar with everything on my Riviera except it's AC (at the start of of this), I'm thinking of 1) assessing my system by pressuring it. 2) changing components as necessary especially the hoses and 3) turning it over to a hand-picked pro to do the rest.

I already have some parts and anticipate challenges with the vacuum switches alone.

Also, there seems to be some parts for the original system out there. OldAirProducts have an evaporator. Would this be correct for the 1963 Riviera?

Your Muffler, cleaning it out easy? No replacements out there? Can it be bypassed? You have 38 deg. F now?

Wish I was there!

John B.

[Turbinator]

On 6/23/2019 at 3:17 PM, XframeFX said:

Bob, dabbling into this with feedback from everyone, I'm inclined to stay original. Being familiar with everything on my Riviera except it's AC (at the start of of this), I'm thinking of 1) assessing my system by pressuring it. 2) changing components as necessary especially the hoses and 3) turning it over to a hand-picked pro to do the rest.

I already have some parts and anticipate challenges with the vacuum switches alone.

Also, there seems to be some parts for the original system out there. OldAirProducts have an evaporator. Would this be correct for the 1963 Riviera?

Your Muffler, cleaning it out easy? No replacements out there? Can it be bypassed? You have 38 deg. F now?

Wish I was there!

John B.

The muffler can be by passed. Cleaning the muffler was blowing oil out. No problem.

Dont know where you are located. ONLY place you can depend on to fix your AC right is a reputable restoration shop or AC specialty shop with vintage AC experience.  I had no luck with supposedly vintage car repair shops in Central Maryland. I found a specialty shop ion the Eastern Shore of Maryland and Ball Louisiana that said they could do soup to nuts restoration. My problems stemmed from my inexperience and mechanical aptitude. Installing the evaporator box under the dash was next to impossible. Diagnosing blockage in the AC system took special trouble shooting skills. Understanding what is happening with the AC by looking at the low side and high side gauges takes experience. 

The evaporator looks -like mine, but you need the thermal expansion valve to go with the evaporator. Personally, I threw away good money on having STV’s rebuilt -3 times. I ultimately went with the STV eliminator. Works fine.

 

it was 3 years for me and about half or more than a completely new AC installed cost. I’m in for $3500-$4000. The shop in Ball LA quoted $7k with a $5k deposit for a soup to nuts installation.

 

My AC is down to 42 degrees F. It is the best it has ever worked.

 

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

On 9/1/2018 at 10:42 AM, RivNut said:

Bob is going to become our "go to" a/c specialist.  He'll have spent enough money to have earned a master certification by the time he's got cold air.  My question for his mechanic who said that R12 and 134a could be mixed is this - "Why does each different refrigerant require a specific fitting on the hose? When you change fittings to put one or the other into the system, doesn't  t the old gas escape?"

Finally got it finished and have 42degree cold air. Tom Telesco came to Maryland and did trouble shooting real fast and found a blockage. The blockage was too much oil in the AC muffler. I’d never found that blockage.

Turbinator

[Zimm63]

Congrats.  Mine is running about 50 degrees at the vents.  Did you charge it by eying the bubbles, or with a machine?

 

[Jim Cannon]

Bob,  is that the air temperature sitting in your driveway? Or out running down the road?

 

If running down the road, adjust your STV eliminator sensor switch to a colder position. You can get colder air than that out of a good system while driving. 

 

In the driveway, put a box fan on high in front of the condenser to help cool it.

 

Adjust in very small steps.

[Turbinator]

On 6/25/2019 at 2:38 PM, Zimm63 said:

Congrats.  Mine is running about 50 degrees at the vents.  Did you charge it by eying the bubbles, or with a machine?

 

 

On 6/25/2019 at 2:38 PM, Zimm63 said:

Congrats.  Mine is running about 50 degrees at the vents.  Did you charge it by eying the bubbles, or with a machine?

 

I did not charge the AC. Tom Telesco knew what the readings on the high and low side meant. Tom went by weight usage on a digital scale where he placed the R12 tank. Tom watched the bubbles.

We are perplexed why we can’t reach 38 F.

Turninator

On 6/26/2019 at 6:20 AM, Jim Cannon said:

Bob,  is that the air temperature sitting in your driveway? Or out running down the road?

 

If running down the road, adjust your STV eliminator sensor switch to a colder position. You can get colder air than that out of a good system while driving. 

 

In the driveway, put a box fan on high in front of the condenser to help cool it.

 

Adjust in very small steps.

Jim, if there is an adjustment on that STV update switch I cannot find the switch. Looks like a copper spring inside the little door.

 

im catching on to temp fluctuations from the AC in different driving conditions. When I’m cruising along at a good speed on the interstate I’m cool on ice.

Sitting in bumper to bumper traffic not so cool, but better than nothing. No air coming from the center vent. Tom looked through the vent and saw daylight. Tom said a gasket has moved and air is leaking. I thought #2 vacuum switch needed adjustment and that’s what we did with no luck.

Tom put dye in the system in hopes of finding leaks, if there are any. My problem is tellingvthe difference from residual R12 and leaking R12. I’ll clean the fittings with brake fluid and then look again with the special light and yellow sunglasses.

[telriv]

Bob, NOT BRAKE FLUID BUT BRAKLEEN.

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, telriv said:

Bob, NOT BRAKE FLUID BUT BRAKLEEN.

Good catch

 

 

[Jim Cannon]

12 hours ago, Turbinator said:

 

Jim, if there is an adjustment on that STV update switch I cannot find the switch. Looks like a copper spring inside the little door.

 

im catching on to temp fluctuations from the AC in different driving conditions. When I’m cruising along at a good speed on the interstate I’m cool on ice.

Sitting in bumper to bumper traffic not so cool, but better than nothing. No air coming from the center vent. Tom looked through the vent and saw daylight. Tom said a gasket has moved and air is leaking.

 

Bob-

OK, if you feel like you are getting really good cooling at highway speed, then DON'T adjust the STV eliminator colder or it will freeze up. There is nothing more you can do about cooling in traffic.  Can you hear or feel the compressor cycling?

 

The "gasket" that Tom T. refers to is a rubber piece that the center vent duct slides down into.  You will want to fix this.  The '63 Riv A/C system is marginal in its output, you can't afford to lose the center vent.  It's dumping all that cold air behind the dash and into the center console.  You remove the center vent and duct. Look for the flat rubber piece and put it back.  If it is missing or disintegrated, make a new one out of a sheet of rubber or old truck inner tube. Also make sure you have the center duct installed behind the little rotating grill.

 

I use a small A/C thermometer inserted into the vents to measure the air temperature coming out while driving.

[Turbinator]

6 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

Bob-

OK, if you feel like you are getting really good cooling at highway speed, then DON'T adjust the STV eliminator colder or it will freeze up. There is nothing more you can do about cooling in traffic.  Can you hear or feel the compressor cycling?

 

The "gasket" that Tom T. refers to is a rubber piece that the center vent duct slides down into.  You will want to fix this.  The '63 Riv A/C system is marginal in its output, you can't afford to lose the center vent.  It's dumping all that cold air behind the dash and into the center console.  You remove the center vent and duct. Look for the flat rubber piece and put it back.  If it is missing or disintegrated, make a new one out of a sheet of rubber or old truck inner tube. Also make sure you have the center duct installed behind the little rotating grill.

 

I use a small A/C thermometer inserted into the vents to measure the air temperature coming out while driving.

Jim, I’m all for continuing to work on the AC and get as much output as possible. I’ll do the center vent first.

Since I have a broken STV by pass sensor from previous efforts  I’ll check out how it might be adjusted and report my findings.

thank you

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

Jim, I found a round head fine screw that runs between a spring inside the metal box that comprises the switch then leads to the sensor on the outside of the suction tube from the evaporator box. If I knew my science I could probably determine which way the screw should turn to make the air colder.

i can take some pics tomorrow and send them along.

Turbinator

[Jim Cannon]

38 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Jim, I found a round head fine screw that runs between a spring inside the metal box that comprises the switch then leads to the sensor on the outside of the suction tube from the evaporator box. If I knew my science I could probably determine which way the screw should turn to make the air colder.

i can take some pics tomorrow and send them along.

Turbinator

What you found is what I expected, to be able to adjust it.

 

Do not adjust it yet.  Only as a last-ditch effort.

 

Only after you get the center vent working properly and you have taken temperature readings in the center vent with an A/C thermometer while running down the road at a good speed.

 

I trust the supplier has calibrated your STV bypass correctly.  Don't screw it up.

 

When driving, do you have both the Cool knob and the Air knob pushed all the way "in" (away from you)?

 

 

[telriv]

When Bob turned on the A/C he always appeared to use two fingers. Most times I pushed the cool knob further down which I showed Bob. Last couple times he did it I could observe he surely pushed it all the way down.

Bob, DO NOTHING on the STV adjustment until we are sure there are no leaks since I installed the dye. Check for any leakage in a week or two.

At the moment I feel there may be too much Freon in the system which will lessen A/C output/coldness.  IF there actually is some kind of leak the A/C will get better as more Freon leaks out.

AT NO TIME DID I EVER FEEL THE COMPRESSOR CYCLE, but then again I was not driving the car. I'm sure I would have felt/sensed the thing cycle.

I will get the part number for the H/Duty fan clutch.

Just in case anyone wants to try a H/Duty clutch keep in mind it WILL be noisy. The way I can explain it that it pushes enough air to clear snow from your driveway. It's for a 454 3/4 ton 454 pick-up with A/C.

It WILL SUCK AIR through the condenser & radiator.

 

Tom T.

 

 

[telriv]

Forgot to mention, It's for a STANDARD rotation, NOT REVERSE ROTATION.

[1965rivgs]

36 minutes ago, telriv said:

When Bob turned on the A/C he always appeared to use two fingers. Most times I pushed the cool knob further down which I showed Bob. Last couple times he did it I could observe he surely pushed it all the way down.

Bob, DO NOTHING on the STV adjustment until we are sure there are no leaks since I installed the dye. Check for any leakage in a week or two.

At the moment I feel there may be too much Freon in the system which will lessen A/C output/coldness.  IF there actually is some kind of leak the A/C will get better as more Freon leaks out.

AT NO TIME DID I EVER FEEL THE COMPRESSOR CYCLE, but then again I was not driving the car. I'm sure I would have felt/sensed the thing cycle.

I will get the part number for the H/Duty fan clutch.

Just in case anyone wants to try a H/Duty clutch keep in mind it WILL be noisy. The way I can explain it that it pushes enough air to clear snow from your driveway. It's for a 454 3/4 ton 454 pick-up with A/C.

It WILL SUCK AIR through the condenser & radiator.

 

Tom T.

 

 

Hi Tom,

  What were the pressures on the high and low side when you were charging the system? As I`m sure you already know, if the system was overcharged both the high and low sides should have been high.

  Regarding the fan clutch....years ago I replaced the fan clutch on my `96 Suburban while I was doing a water pump at about 150K. The new clutch was an aftermarket clutch, one of the common names like Hayden or Evercool. It drove me nuts because it stayed engaged, and I mean ENGAGED, for 5 minutes after startup. I took it back and my parts store supplied another... same thing. I finally installed an AC Delco fan and it was quiet at startup, as it had been since new, without 5 minutes of ROARING and lack of power every morning. A few years later I stumbled across a notation in an aftermarket catalog that stated replacement GM truck fan clutches were designed to be engaged upon initial startup. There was no explanation as to why and I dont remember whose catalog it was. But then I understood why I was occasionally hearing GMC blazers roaring past me in traffic. I always thought the fan clutches were locked up!

Tom Mooney

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

Dunno how this replacement STV works, but if you're hunting for leaks, remember that a) leaks around the evaporator and the backside of the condenser can be a real PITA to find, and b) an internal leak in a conventional STV might not show up at all, as the dye is getting sucked into the vacuum line instead of the outer surface of the valve.

 

You might also read the manual on tuning the AC, paying particular attention to the hi and low sides pressures, ambient temperature, outlet temperature, and adjusting the STV to get the proper relationship between them.  Having a replacement STV might alter the adjustment procedure completely, but one would think that optimal performance would still require the same relative pressures.

[Jim Cannon]

7 hours ago, KongaMan said:

Dunno how this replacement STV works, but if you're hunting for leaks, remember that a) leaks around the evaporator and the backside of the condenser can be a real PITA to find, and b) an internal leak in a conventional STV might not show up at all, as the dye is getting sucked into the vacuum line instead of the outer surface of the valve.

 

You might also read the manual on tuning the AC, paying particular attention to the hi and low sides pressures, ambient temperature, outlet temperature, and adjusting the STV to get the proper relationship between them.  Having a replacement STV might alter the adjustment procedure completely, but one would think that optimal performance would still require the same relative pressures.

 

This is an STV eliminator, not a replacement STV.  It does not control suction pressure at the evaporator in the same manner as the STV did.  Instead, it cycles the compressor whenever the evaporator outlet line temperature gets down to a set point near freezing.  As the pressure and temperature slowly climbs back up in the evaporator outlet, the compressor is then cycled back on.

 

The early days of A/C for cars was a learning experience.  The STV concept proved to be a poor design and was later dropped by GM (as was hot gas recycle, another flawed design). Having the evaporator and heater core in series (instead of in parallel, as it is on the first-gen. Riv) was another major step forward.

 

[1965rivgs]

34 minutes ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

This is an STV eliminator, not a replacement STV.  It does not control suction pressure at the evaporator in the same manner as the STV did.  Instead, it cycles the compressor whenever the evaporator outlet line temperature gets down to a set point near freezing.  As the pressure and temperature slowly climbs back up in the evaporator outlet, the compressor is then cycled back on.

 

The early days of A/C for cars was a learning experience.  The STV concept proved to be a poor design and was later dropped by GM (as was hot gas recycle, another flawed design). Having the evaporator and heater core in series (instead of in parallel, as it is on the first-gen. Riv) was another major step forward.

 

Jim,

  I respectfully disagree with your points regarding the evolution of automotive AC systems.

  I would assume the cycling systems became the norm as a compromise to acheive better fuel mileage and not as an improvement in regrigeration. Problem with the cycling system is that to achieve the fuel savings, cycling the compressor to maximize "off" periods, evap pressure is allowed to rise to a prescribed level, hence raising evaporator temp. The old systems controlled evap pressure with the valves while the compressor ran continuously, hence the ability of the system to keep evap pressure and temperature at a minimum consistently. While the modern fixed orifice/cycling systems are simpler and therefore more problem free, IMO, from a refrigeration perspective, the old systems are a step ahead.

  I also prefer the parallel arrangement of heater and evaporator core. While both systems have the ability to combine heated air with a higher moisture content back into the air stream, the series arrangement places the discharge temp at the mercy of the heater control valve. I cant tell you how many times I have encountered a situation where big bucks have been spent on the refrigeration system when the problem was a defective or inefficient heater control valve. The most common complaint is "when I first turn it on it is cold but after awhile it gets warm"... as engine temp climbs, the series arrangement allows a defective heater control valve to add heated air to the refrigerated airstream via the heater core, raising outlet temps and giving the impression the refrigeration system is compromised.

  Just another opinion....

Tom Mooney

[Turbinator]

Gents, after 3 years of fairly good documentation and real progress on this AC case the case may truly be helpful to others.

im going to use brake cleaner to take off any Freon residue around the fittings under the hood. What is under the dash will be tested as the last of the last tests. 

If the evaporator box has to be taken down it will be done by someone else.

in the meantime I’ll keep everyone apprised of noteworthy events on this case.

thanks to all

Turbinator

[KongaMan]

5 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

This is an STV eliminator, not a replacement STV.  It does not control suction pressure at the evaporator in the same manner as the STV did.  Instead, it cycles the compressor whenever the evaporator outlet line temperature gets down to a set point near freezing.  As the pressure and temperature slowly climbs back up in the evaporator outlet, the compressor is then cycled back on.

 

Understood.  However, I was referring to it for a couple of reasons:

- It's another component which needs to be checked for leaks.

- Folks who are running a stock AC system might get some benefit from knowing that the STV is susceptible to internal leaks which aren't immediately obvious during an external examination.

 

As far as the function of the replacement piece, it seems that if it cycles the compressor in response to the evaporator outlet reaching a specific temperature, it is essentially duplicating the function of the expansion valve.

[Turbinator]

On 6/29/2019 at 10:14 PM, telriv said:

Bob, NOT BRAKE FLUID BUT BRAKLEEN.

Tom, thank you for the reminder.

i wrote brake “ fluid”, but I meant the brake cleaner in an aerosol can. Nevertheless, thank you

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

 

Understood.  However, I was referring to it for a couple of reasons:

- It's another component which needs to be checked for leaks.

- Folks who are running a stock AC system might get some benefit from knowing that the STV is susceptible to internal leaks which aren't immediately obvious during an external examination.

 

As far as the function of the replacement piece, it seems that if it cycles the compressor in response to the evaporator outlet reaching a specific temperature, it is essentially duplicating the function of the expansion valve.

Mr KongaMan, the STV sensor is mounted on the same suction pipe as the thermal expansion sensor tube.

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

On 6/26/2019 at 6:20 AM, Jim Cannon said:

Bob,  is that the air temperature sitting in your driveway? Or out running down the road?

 

If running down the road, adjust your STV eliminator sensor switch to a colder position. You can get colder air than that out of a good system while driving. 

 

In the driveway, put a box fan on high in front of the condenser to help cool it.

 

Adjust in very small steps.

Jim, the air temp of 42 F was in the driveway with engine at about 2000 RPM’s. I’m leaving the STV by pass switch as a last resort.

Tom Telesco says he might have too much Freon in the system and I agree. I’ll check for leaks soon and advise as we go forward. 

‘With luck I’ll have this AC running right around Halloween time. 🙂

[KongaMan]

7 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Tom Telesco says he might have too much Freon in the system and I agree.

What do the gauges say?

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

What do the gauges say?

Mr KongaMan, truth told, I cannot remember.

The only number I can remember is 100 on the low and high side when the engine and AC were turned off.

[Turbinator]

On 6/29/2019 at 11:28 PM, RivNut said:

Good catch

 

 

Probably would have blew up!

Turb

[Turbinator]

July 18 2019 93 F with humidity very high. I tested the AC in my 63 Buick Riviera by driving the car and using the AC. I was very comfortable riding on the two way county roads in central Maryland. I stopped for about 15 minutes to show one of my friends I had real AC. After 10 or so minutes the level cool air diminished. The amount of air was fine, it just wasn’t as cold as when I was driving.

 

i did not test the AC air temp with a thermometer. I tested the AC by how I felt. I’m not going to do any more “fixing”  to the AC until I break it. I’m leaving the AC system alone. I will put on a vacuum tank and I might put on a severe duty clutch fan or maybe an electric fan . The purpose of the fan would be to pull more air past the condenser.

 

For all that matter this is a wrap. Many thanks to all that joined in to help me get cold air.

 

Turbinator

[RivNut]

If you're car originally came with air, it came with the 5 blade impeller in the water pump, a fan shroud, and a thermal clutch on the five blade fan.  As long as these items are in good condition, there's no need to try and bolster anything.  Dad drove his 63 Wildcat for years - summer and winter, around town and across country, through the Rocky Mountains and across Death Valley.  Never had it overheat. Always had cold air in the summer and heat in the winter - just as it came from the factory.  Just make sure that all your systems are in top shape. No bent fins in the condenser or radiator, no clogged water passages, and make sure all the rubber seals around the radiator are present and in good shape.  Make sure you're fan clutch operates correctly and your fan is positioned correctly in relationship th the shroud.

[KongaMan]

Concur.  My 63 will spit ice cubes or roast weenies, depending on the setting.

[Turbinator]

Gents, new water pump, new timing chain cover, no leaks seems  like what is suppose to be tight is tight.

i don’t know why the AC air is much cooler/ colder when driving on a highway. I sit still in traffic and the cold air goes to warmer air. I don’t think the AC was intentionally designed to kick out warmer air fromthe AC. It seems something is not quite right. My gauges had different readings than Tom Telesco’s gauges. Actually, I don’t know whaT gauges are accurate. The price points are all over the map for AC gauges. I would suppose  Robinair would have decent gauges.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

I had the a/c in one of my cars (not a Riviera) turn warm when the evaporator would freeze up.  But that happened opposite of what you're saying.  It would run fine while gadding about town but would freeze up on the open road.  Time for an ice cream cone and a potty break.  Get back in and head on down tbe road again.  It would take quite a while for it to freeze up and with the outside ambient temperatures high, it didn't take long to thaw.

[KongaMan]

3 hours ago, Turbinator said:

i don’t know why the AC air is much cooler/ colder when driving on a highway. I sit still in traffic and the cold air goes to warmer air.

Less efficient operation at low speeds is normal behavior, and sitting still at idle will created a noticeable difference (remember that the FSM says to test your AC at 2000 RPM).  But then, you've got that goofy STV eliminator, so maybe your compressor is being shut off at inopportune times.  You might try hooking up an indicator light to the compressor feed so you know when it's engaged.  If you really want to get hardcore, get some long hoses for your gauges, then mount them where you can see them and drive around.

[Turbinator]

5 hours ago, KongaMan said:

If you really want to get hardcore, get some long hoses for your gauges, then mount them where you can see them and drive around.

Mr Konga Man, have the gauges so you can see them showing the readings on the high and low side.’ Have the gauge readings recorded for driving on the highway, slow city traffic, and sitting in a traffic jam would be three situations the readings could be recorded. Of course, the readings would have to interpreted for each case.

‘I would not have used the STV update widget had I not had so much trouble with the piston sticking in the rebuilt STV’s. Now, since I have the STV widget  and cold air I do not notice the compressor engaging or disengaging. Heck, maybe the STV widget isn’t working at all? I do have plenty cold air for 88-93 F temps while going down the highway. I guess I just have to keep moving.

 

As far as the clutch fan is concerned I’ve read a severe duty clutch fan stays engaged 80% of the time as opposed to much less time engaged with the stock clutch fan. If I have more air coming through the condenser at very low speed and stop and go traffic would not the  gas shed heat faster and return to a liquid that goes to the evaporator where I get cold air? I’m just guessing at the science of the thing. I’ve found if you know how stuff works hopefully your diagnostics would improve improve.

 

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

6 hours ago, RivNut said:

I had the a/c in one of my cars (not a Riviera) turn warm when the evaporator would freeze up.  But that happened opposite of what you're saying.  It would run fine while gadding about town but would freeze up on the open road.  Time for an ice cream cone and a potty break.  Get back in and head on down tbe road again.  It would take quite a while for it to freeze up and with the outside ambient temperatures high, it didn't take long to thaw.

Ed, amazing what power driven mechanical things do. Never ceases to amaze me.

Bob

[BBK]

Hey, 

 

Where I get those inline filters to prevent dirt in the system? 

Does the filter in the drier will not prevent for damages? 

 

Im rebuilding also my AC (Compressor and hoses was missing) buyed already new Pag oil, dryer and expansion valve. I will fill my system with a butane propane mixture as r134a costs is crazy high in Europe.