63 Riv AC flush and vacuum

[telriv]

Nothing more FRUSTRATING than putting your blood, sweat & tears into something & end up with a problem. One day one step at a time Bob. You'll be OK.

 

Tom T.

[1965rivgs]

Bob,

  You can buy refrigerant oil with the green dye already mixed in..think the last time I bought a quart was at Napa.

  At this point, what I would do is, put your old dryer back in, this shouldnt take more than a couple of minutes...and put shop air on the system (120 to 180 lbs depending on your system) and listen. If you have a leak that wont hold 30 inches of vacuum it will surely present itself with over 100 lbs of pressure. Just my 2 cents...this is a technique I have been using for years for hard to locate leaks, especially in the evap case. In your case you will be able to listen for escaping air in any of several locations related to the case because I am assuming you still have the hoses, etc removed from the case but in the circumstance of a fully assembled car one can listen for the escaping air pressure at the evap case drain hoses.

Tom

[PWB]

With the positive pressure test use dish soap and water mix sprayed on all components. (Heavy on the soap)

Saturate and wait for the bubbles.

 

 

[Turbinator]

Gents, thanks for the highly valuable information regarding soapy water test, pressureized air in the system, listening for hissing in the evaporator tank, and use of green O rings ( not torn or pinched) with a little bit of mineral oil. All the fittings had green O rings with mineral oil installed at each location. Care was taken to keep the connections free of grease and debris.

Im waiting on a 1 1/16” crowsfoot to use on a fitting under the dash. None of the local stores have that size crowfoot in stock so the tool is coming from Amazon. 

Ill be out of the country from Sept 23-Oct 12. I’ll resume when I return. Thanks to all, AGAIN for your help.

Red Riviera Bob

[Turbinator]

6 hours ago, telriv said:

Nothing more FRUSTRATING than putting your blood, sweat & tears into something & end up with a problem. One day one step at a time Bob. You'll be OK.

 

Tom T.

Tom, if the job was easy I would not enjoy the challenge.

RRB

[60FlatTop]

With home MIG welders nitrogen bottles are getting more common in garages and it is a better choice for leak testing than compressed air. Recharging a small bottle is about $30. The tanks and regulators are at Harbor Freight or you can adapt your MIG tank.

Car AC systems are very tolerant of non-condensibles, leaks, and the like, compared to commercial systems. But all you need is a few random water molecules traveling through the system to give you a lot of grief. They will turn to ice in the expansion valve and then melt when you try to troubleshoot.

It is better to pressure test with dry nitrogen and a little shot of refrigerant using a sniffer and soap bubbles.

[Turbinator]

Bernie, Im all in for using the dry NITROGEN to run down leaks. What is a sniffer? Please give me the real name so I can find it and figure out how to use it along with the soapy water. You mentioned shooting a spot of refrigerant. Since Im using R12 I'll have to find a container of R12 I can use a bit to load in the system. I understand the soapy water part and how that works. I suppose the dry NITROGEN mixed with a tiny bit of refrigerant in the system will leak and blow up the soapy water so I can see the leak? What do I do with the gas in the system once all the leaks are sealed? Vacuum the NITROGEN out of the the system and see if the system holds 28 inches of mercury for a period? Seems to me that would be the routine. I'm happy for comments.

Thank you very much

RRB

[Turbinator]

On 9/22/2018 at 3:32 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Bob,

  You can buy refrigerant oil with the green dye already mixed in..think the last time I bought a quart was at Napa.

  At this point, what I would do is, put your old dryer back in, this shouldnt take more than a couple of minutes...and put shop air on the system (120 to 180 lbs depending on your system) and listen. If you have a leak that wont hold 30 inches of vacuum it will surely present itself with over 100 lbs of pressure. Just my 2 cents...this is a technique I have been using for years for hard to locate leaks, especially in the evap case. In your case you will be able to listen for escaping air in any of several locations related to the case because I am assuming you still have the hoses, etc removed from the case but in the circumstance of a fully assembled car one can listen for the escaping air pressure at the evap case drain hoses.

Tom

Tom, one of my friends know I'm hard of hearing in certain instances. In other instances I can hear the dissonance between the minor second and major second played in music. My friend said get a stethoscope to help you hear stuff going on in the evaporator case.

As a precaution, I loaded the compressor with 10.5 oz of mineral oil carefully measured in ml to get the right amount. If I add the refrigerant oil with the green dye won't that dye contaminate the mineral oil I've already loaded in the compressor? As a matter of fact, FlatTop60 suggested using dry nitrogen with a spot of refrigerant to check for leaks. Tom, I appreciate all your contributions because they are most helpful. Generally, I take a little from what each individuals contribute and end up with a mix of all your solutions. For instance, no matter what method I use for testing leaks would not the old drier be best to use again? Can't hurt can it?

RRB 

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Tom, one of my friends know I'm hard of hearing in certain instances. In other instances I can hear the dissonance between the minor second and major second played in music. My friend said get a stethoscope to help you hear stuff going on in the evaporator case.

As a precaution, I loaded the compressor with 10.5 oz of mineral oil carefully measured in ml to get the right amount. If I add the refrigerant oil with the green dye won't that dye contaminate the mineral oil I've already loaded in the compressor? As a matter of fact, FlatTop60 suggested using dry nitrogen with a spot of refrigerant to check for leaks. Tom, I appreciate all your contributions because they are most helpful. Generally, I take a little from what each individuals contribute and end up with a mix of all your solutions. For instance, no matter what method I use for testing leaks would not the old drier be best to use again? Can't hurt can it?

RRB 

Bill,

  An old mechanics trick is to use a short length of heater hose to listen for air leaks. The stethoscope is also a good alternative as is the suggestion to use soapy water as this method is visual, especially helpful for those who have lost the upper hearing range.

  The dye is compatible with the regrigerant oil so contamination is not a problem. Just be sure you choose the right product for the refigerant which you plan to use.

  I personally have not used nitrogen for leak checking. That product has never been available in any automotive/truck shops I have worked in. I have used "sniffers" to check for leaking refigerant but find this method tedious, inconsistent and inaccurate.

  I suggested using the old dryer because if you pressurize the system with typical shop air chances are it will have a significant amount of moisture in it. It only takes a couple of minutes to change out your new dryer so why not remove it so as not to expose it to that moisture. You can reinstall the old dryer (this shouldnt take more than a couple of minutes since you have recently loosened the lines), pressurize the system and repair the leak. Pull a vacuum on the system to remove the moisture and then reinstall the new dryer and repeat the vacuum/leak check before charging.

  If you are concerned with introducing moisture into the system you can pull a vacuum on the system and use the listening device to listen for a vacuum leak. If the leak is large enough you will be able to hear it....but keep in mind you will be pulling outside air thru the system via the leak point.

 

Tom

Edited September 25, 2018 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

4 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Generally, I take a little from what each individuals contribute and end up with a mix of all your solutions

 

Why does that make me think of the Robin Williams "Golf" monologue.

[flh73]

I'm impressed with your diligent and amount of time and money you’ve into this.  I hope it turns out. 

I've been working on getting my a/c up and running as well.  Not to your point yet so thanks for all the information.

Your last comment worries me a little 10.5 ounces is for a "new" compressor with no oil.  The service manual breaks it down 4 ounces, 6 ounces etc. based on the work that is done if unable to measure what came out, like most of us.  I loaded my compressor with the 10 ounces yes after super draining it and had A/C apart leak checks the parts individually.  My gauge had a leak so after pulling vacuum for a couple hours it wouldn't hold.  I decided to go ahead and load  1lb of R12 and see if it held .  After fixing gauge It did hold overnight .  So I started loading the additional 2.5lb required to reach 3.5lb.  At about 3lb something plugged up and pressure spiked and blew out an over pressure valve built into the back of the compressor.  Once pressure came down which was quick it held again.  I even ran the compressor some more to see what would happen.  I've since emptied the system and taking everything apart again.  Long story longer haven't found the problem yet but can note there is a TON of oil in the system.  I'm starting to think TOO much oil was present.  I'm going to clean out blow out etc. and try a find a blockage first.  I've rebuild the STV using a kit (mine was very clean inside and looked ok).  New Receiver Dryer. new oil but only 4-6 ounces, leak check and see what happens.

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, flh73 said:

I'm impressed with your diligent and amount of time and money you’ve into this.  I hope it turns out. 

I've been working on getting my a/c up and running as well.  Not to your point yet so thanks for all the information.

Your last comment worries me a little 10.5 ounces is for a "new" compressor with no oil.  The service manual breaks it down 4 ounces, 6 ounces etc. based on the work that is done if unable to measure what came out, like most of us.  I loaded my compressor with the 10 ounces yes after super draining it and had A/C apart leak checks the parts individually.  My gauge had a leak so after pulling vacuum for a couple hours it wouldn't hold.  I decided to go ahead and load  1lb of R12 and see if it held .  After fixing gauge It did hold overnight .  So I started loading the additional 2.5lb required to reach 3.5lb.  At about 3lb something plugged up and pressure spiked and blew out an over pressure valve built into the back of the compressor.  Once pressure came down which was quick it held again.  I even ran the compressor some more to see what would happen.  I've since emptied the system and taking everything apart again.  Long story longer haven't found the problem yet but can note there is a TON of oil in the system.  I'm starting to think TOO much oil was present.  I'm going to clean out blow out etc. and try a find a blockage first.  I've rebuild the STV using a kit (mine was very clean inside and looked ok).  New Receiver Dryer. new oil but only 4-6 ounces, leak check and see what happens.

GARY, my Depression Era thinking is the antithesis of my parts buying behavior on this project. Dad reminded all along, "A fool and his money soon part."

I blew my system out with CoolPro solution. I bought the bottle that holds the solution and hooked it to my compressor ( with a regulator ) followed directions on the CoolPro solution and got everything I could clean. Now, my compressor is NEW in the sense that it is one year old, But was put in service May 2017 while Ive been trying to get cold air. I took the compressor out and drained the oil over a period of days. Then I added oil to rinse the compressor until the rinse oil was clear. I then added the 10.5 oz ( 300ml equals 10 oz. and added tablespoons to make the last half oz.)mineral oil per spec for R12. The system has not been run since I tried to rebuild. Even though the 10.5 oz is in the compressor all I've done is try to pull a vacuum. The system won't hold a vacuum because of leaks. I appreciate your attention to detail and giving me the tip regarding the 4-6 0z. leak check. I was not aware of that piece in the start up. Many thanks. I bought the ALMA newly manufactured A6 with the dual pulley to replace what I think is the original Harrison Compressor. ( I got the ALMA through a NAPA dealer in Cockeysville MD who sourced the ALMA in Texas ) I justify over buying parts by doing the work myself. By example. I asked my 85 year old father in law who is right sharp to watch the AC hoses as I pulled from the cabin. I ended up braking a piece from the #1 vacuum actuator. Luck had it, I. had an extra vacuum actuator to replace immediately. Father in law warned me after I heard something pop under the hood. I only hope I make it to a healthy 85!

Thanks again,

RRB

[1965rivgs]

5 hours ago, flh73 said:

I'm impressed with your diligent and amount of time and money you’ve into this.  I hope it turns out. 

I've been working on getting my a/c up and running as well.  Not to your point yet so thanks for all the information.

Your last comment worries me a little 10.5 ounces is for a "new" compressor with no oil.  The service manual breaks it down 4 ounces, 6 ounces etc. based on the work that is done if unable to measure what came out, like most of us.  I loaded my compressor with the 10 ounces yes after super draining it and had A/C apart leak checks the parts individually.  My gauge had a leak so after pulling vacuum for a couple hours it wouldn't hold.  I decided to go ahead and load  1lb of R12 and see if it held .  After fixing gauge It did hold overnight .  So I started loading the additional 2.5lb required to reach 3.5lb.  At about 3lb something plugged up and pressure spiked and blew out an over pressure valve built into the back of the compressor.  Once pressure came down which was quick it held again.  I even ran the compressor some more to see what would happen.  I've since emptied the system and taking everything apart again.  Long story longer haven't found the problem yet but can note there is a TON of oil in the system.  I'm starting to think TOO much oil was present.  I'm going to clean out blow out etc. and try a find a blockage first.  I've rebuild the STV using a kit (mine was very clean inside and looked ok).  New Receiver Dryer. new oil but only 4-6 ounces, leak check and see what happens.

Gary,

  Keep in mind the oil in the system is distributed in the components via refrigerant flow. So when isolating each component not only will the compressor sump contain oil but a substantial volume will also be found in the condensor, evaporator, etc

Tom

[flh73]

Yeah Tom i'm clear about this fact.  The evidence is obvious as i'm taking these components back apart and draining / blowing out alot of oil.  I had the system apart when building the car but maybe didn't clean it our properly.  My final step is flushing system with a cleaner and alcohol as possible.  This is why i think the service manual is onto something when considering how much oil to add to the compressor.  If its NOT a completely empty system 10.5 ounces maybe too much oil.  I think the system especially the compressor and reciever dryer can trap some oil.  This is why they recommend less oil on an a/c system that has gone through repair versus complete replacement.  Once my system is cleaned i may go back down to 6 ounces.  I believe this will be sufficient to lubricate the compressor / system.  

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, flh73 said:

Yeah Tom i'm clear about this fact.  The evidence is obvious as i'm taking these components back apart and draining / blowing out alot of oil.  I had the system apart when building the car but maybe didn't clean it our properly.  My final step is flushing system with a cleaner and alcohol as possible.  This is why i think the service manual is onto something when considering how much oil to add to the compressor.  If its NOT a completely empty system 10.5 ounces maybe too much oil.  I think the system especially the compressor and reciever dryer can trap some oil.  This is why they recommend less oil on an a/c system that has gone through repair versus complete replacement.  Once my system is cleaned i may go back down to 6 ounces.  I believe this will be sufficient to lubricate the compressor / system.  

Hi Gary,

  Generally in the field, if a compressor is being replaced for reasons other than catastrophic failure, it is suggested procedure that the old compressor be drained of oil and the same quantity be substituted in the new compressor. Lately, as in the last 5 or 7 years, the compressors I have changed have already been charged with oil. I suspect the providers are charging the compressors with oil to prevent any oversight by the installer.

Tom

[Turbinator]

On 9/25/2018 at 10:26 PM, 60FlatTop said:

 

Why does that make me think of the Robin Williams "Golf" monologue.

Bernie, probably because the comparison is so accurate. Good job and really funny.

RRB

[Turbinator]

On 9/27/2018 at 4:57 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Hi Gary,

  Generally in the field, if a compressor is being replaced for reasons other than catastrophic failure, it is suggested procedure that the old compressor be drained of oil and the same quantity be substituted in the new compressor. Lately, as in the last 5 or 7 years, the compressors I have changed have already been charged with oil. I suspect the providers are charging the compressors with oil to prevent any oversight by the installer.

Tom

Tom, since I replaced all the hoses, drier, evaporator, TXV, STV, and I blew out the condenser with CoolPRO, drained the compressor many times after rinse it would seem to me 10.5 oz is the best amount of oil for my process. I believe the compressor is working fine and It is one year old newly manufactured ALMA A6 compressor. After vacuum I believe a truly small amount of oil may have been "drawn" from the compressor, but not enough to replace.

I purchased a full set of flare nut Crowfoot wrenches in hopes of going back and properly tighten the connections. The connections under the dash are really a difficult to reach with the "regular" Crowfoot wrenches. I'm in hopes the flare nut Crowfoot will get the leaks. ( I'm out of town until 12 Oct and can't wait to get back to the task ) I'm thinking positive the replacement of all the components will get the cold air I'm after.

RRB

[Turbinator]

Gents, What is the best name brand or type or style "O" rings for the 63 Riviera AC hose connections?

Thank you

Red Riviera Bob

[60FlatTop]

Bob, I would just pick some up at a refrigeration supply house or a seal specialty store. The fresher the better. I would stay away from any old stock.

 

You are not far from Washington so watch out for any that might be government surplus rocket booster seals. You can't be too careful around those guys.

Bernie

[Turbinator]

On 9/4/2018 at 12:00 PM, RivNut said:

Bob, 

Hopefully you'll get this taken care of in time to take advantage of a working a/c system before the seasons change and you'll just need you heater and defroster.  ?

Ed

Ed, will resume the AC REINSTALL after the new year. Now, I have no MOBILE AC certifications. At this juncture I’m conversant about the AC system in a 63 Buick Riviera. When I finish reinstalling the AC components I would say I have some experience with the AC on a 63 Buick Riviera. I’ll have her finished by this spring.

RRB

[Turbinator]

On 9/22/2018 at 9:34 AM, Jim Cannon said:

Use new green o-rings on every connection every time.  They are cheap.  Lubricate them lightly with a drop or two of mineral oil as you assemble, to not pinch or tear an o-ring.

 

If you have not done so already, put some UV dye into the mineral oil. It will help you find any leaks more easily in the future, after you charge the system and run it (won't help now).

 

Connect both hoses from your manifold gauge set to their corresponding high- and low-pressure taps on the A/C system, and the vacuum pump to the center hose..  Do not leave one hose off of the A/C ports.

 

 

 

Jim, thank you. Understood.

RRB

[Turbinator]

On 9/1/2018 at 12:16 PM, KongaMan said:

Not if you use an adapter.   But the thing is, you can use R12 fittings with R134a (and vice versa).  The different fittings serve as a deterrent, not as a preventative.  If someone wants to mix refrigerants, there's not much to stop them.

Mr Konga Man, I’ve been reading a training manual published by the US Navy. The Navy manual stated never  mix 134a with zR12. The reason is the 134a damages the R12 o rings and causes leaks.

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

Gents,  I have reinstalled the AC system with new thermal expansion valve, new evaporator, new condenser, all the AC hoses have been rebuilt with triple wall hose material. The compressor has been rinsed out with mineral oil twice. All new green silicon O rings have replaced and properly lubricated on fitment. After three failed attempts of STV rebuilds I had to use the STV eliminator kit.

The vacuum valve actuators I replaced are new. The vacuum hoses are color coded and new. All the components that could be flushed and although new, were flushed out with CoolPro, just to make sure.

It took a significant period of time to put the system back together because I’m slow and I wanted to make sure leaks upon testing would hopefully be minimal. The only leak was at the STV I retrofitted. Two different times and days I pulled 24” of vacuum that held 44 hours until I took it down. The second vacuum was at 24” for 19 hrs before I took it down.

ill charge the AC WITH R12 when we have some days that are 65-70 F degrees. A number of highly experienced RIviera owners recommended I stay with the STV. Once the STV piston sticks once the piston sticks again. After 3 failed rebuilds of the STV I said, “No mas.”

i would say weak/ poorly trained mobile AC technicians in my area necessitated I replace everything new myself. I’m betting a new, flushed, and leak free AC unit is the most promising situation I’ve had to get cold air in the cabin.

ill keep you apprised of functional AC testing when the weather warms up.

Turbinator

[kegart]

Bob, I have been following your progress on your '63. When I get to Gettysburg I will look for the red Riviera with frosted windows.

 

Kevin

[Turbinator]

2 minutes ago, kegart said:

Bob, I have been following your progress on your '63. When I get to Gettysburg I will look for the red Riviera with frosted windows.

 

Kevin

Kev, I had that caulk pretty well under control. I messed up drilling the holes for #8 screws to hold the dash on. Ended up with # 14 screws. Now I’ve got it figured out how to minimize the size of the screw head. It’s a secret.

i got a 63 Dinsmore compass with a light in it! Too cool for school.

Turbinator

[60FlatTop]

22 hours ago, Turbinator said:

i got a 63 Dinsmore compass with a light in it!

 

Just when everything seemed to be working right.

[RivNut]

Will your compass be ready for the next one?  Will you be ready?  🤔

 

A geomagnetic reversal is a change in a planet's magnetic field such that the positions of magnetic north and magnetic south are interchanged. The Earth's field has alternated between periods of normal polarity, in which the predominant direction of the field was the same as the present direction, and reverse polarity, in which it was the opposite. These periods are called chrons.

Reversal occurrences are statistically random, with some periods lasting as little as 200 years. There have been 183 reversals over the last 83 million years. The latest, the Brunhes–Matuyama reversal, occurred 780,000 years ago, and may have happened very quickly, within a human lifetime.^[1]

A brief complete reversal, known as the Laschamp event, occurred only 41,000 years ago during the last glacial period. That reversal lasted only about 440 years with the actual change of polarity lasting around 250 years. During this change the strength of the magnetic field weakened to 5% of its present strength.^[2] Brief disruptions that do not result in reversal are called geomagnetic excursions.

[Turbinator]

Gents, how do I adjust my compass for the current change in true North?

i have the aluminum screw driver included in the kit. ( you are not suppose to use a tool that could be magnetized when making adjustments on the Dinsmore.)

The light at night in the Compass is pretty cool.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

Turb

 

When I calibrated the factory compass in my Chrysler JXi, I went across the street to the parking lot at the ball fields and just drove around in the smallest circle I could 8 times.  That's what the owner's called for.  

 

Probably not helpful to your situation though. 😎

[Turbinator]

In which direction did you make the circle? Was your 8 times around clockwise or counterclockwise.? The direction you traveled could have had a BEARING on the outcome.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

Counterclockwise.  I was afraid that I'd wear out the left front tire.  Got kind of disoriented because the car wouldn't maintain a perfect circle.  Got pretty close to a lamp post towards the end. BUT the compass got calibrated.  Don't know if the local gendarmes would have believed me if I'd have been questioned.

[Turbinator]

Coordinates. I was the guy who set up gear in the APO’s/FPO’s all over this planet.

When I was putting in some load cell mail scales down range in Central Europe my home office guys asked for the longitude and latitude where the scales were to be installed. My first question was, “ Is not the address of the office where the scale is installed sufficient information ?” No, the techies looked up the coordinates via the address. Had to do with the scale being tangent to the earth.

 

[EmTee]

Bob, where are you sourcing the R-12 for your car?  I'd like to find some to top-off mine (seeing some bubbles in the sight glass but blows cold). I'm leery of screwing mine system up by buying some bogus, imitation garbage on eBay...

[Turbinator]

On 8/31/2018 at 9:17 AM, Barney Eaton said:

I can give you a generic answer...........it sort of depends on what you are replacing and where the connections are.

On the compressor,  drain it the best you can then flush some clean oil thru it and drain again.

normally what ruins the compressor is mixing 12 oil and 134 oil........depending on how much of each is left in the system,  they do not play well together and this can cause the compressor to fail.

The failure might happen in 6 mo or 2 years, 

They sell fluids to flush the system but somewhere they said you could use alcohol........cheap to buy at Walmart,  alcohol makes sense as it will break down oil and it also evaporates quickly, 

So I poured it in and blew it out with compressed air...... with the expansion valve removed,  it could also be cleaned.    Newer cars will have the throw away tube type expansion valve.

Not sure I would run alcohol thru the compressor,  and you are right to replace the accumulator/dryer......as the accumulator can "accumulate" it fair share of oil.

Barney, I rinsed my compressor with the same mineral oil I was going to use for the R12. Id put in some oil and shake the compressor and move it upside down and drain. I did this rinse routine a number of times and let the compressor drain overnight.

Then I measured 310ml ( 10.5 oz) and put about 8.5 Oz in the compressor and the remainder in the condenser. I’m real new at this so I charged my AC system with dry nitrogen up to 200 lbs on the low side. The system held the dry nitrogen charge for 44 hours without a leak. 

I vacuumed the system another time to 24”of mercury and the system held the vacuumfor 19 hrs.

In May we average 20 days with 70 F so I’ll charge the system with R12 during a warmer spell. Hopefully, I’ll have cold air this summer 

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

On 8/31/2018 at 9:23 AM, JZRIV said:

So it sounds like someone mixed 134 and 12. Is the system working now? I am curious how you know the mix is 22/78??

 

System could probably be evacuated and re-charged with R12 without a flush and be OK......but there is some risk involved in that. At this point it may be best to go ahead and flush to remove oil from the individual components through flushing process and start over. You only want to do this ONCE.

A competent shop will know the process to flush. This is not a job you can do yourself because a special flushing gun and flushing agent is required. I'm not an expert but I would want to disconnect and flush the evap, condenser, muffler, and lines separately so it doesn't matter what order. Then remove and drain all oil out of the compressor/flush.

After everything is cleaned, reinstalled with correct amount of oil, new orings on all joints, and new receiver dryer, a vacuum is pulled on the system for several hours then the system is left sit to see how long it holds a vacuum which determines if there are leaks. If no leaks then the system is charged and the vacuum is replaced by refrigerant thereby not allowing any contaminated/moisture laden air to enter.

JZRV, I’m in agreement with everything you say. I got so frustrated with the local non tech AC folk I decided to rebuild The whole AC system myself. How hard could it be? I had the AC lines rebuilt to 134a specs, drained and rinsed the compressor with the proper R12 oil numerous times, replaced drier accumulator, condenser, evaporator, thermal expansion valve. Using STV eliminator switch, after 3 failed attempts with rebuilt STV’S I elected for the STV eliminator.) Filled the AC system with dry nitrogen up to 200 psi. I filled the AC System twice with dry nitrogen. The AC system held the 200 lb psi once for 44 hours and second time for 19 hours. I’m waitingfor the ambient temp to move up to regular days  of 70 degrees F to charge the system with R12.

Thank you for your positive helpful input. I could tell the mix of 22/78 from an AC shop machine while  trying to evacuate my  has aNd put in R12.

Turbinator

Edited May 7, 2019 by Turbinator
Left something out (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

On 9/1/2018 at 11:05 PM, 60FlatTop said:

Bob, I see you plan to replace your hoses. This story may have more chapters than expected. It would be a good idea to spend the extra for triple wall hoses suitable for 134A on the new replacements. Then you will be ready should you switch refrigerants down the road.

Bernie

Bernie, I did just that.  ALL the hoses and fittings have been rebuilt with triple wall 134a compliant hose.

Turbinator

[60FlatTop]

Sounds good, 55 degrees, gray, and raining. I just turned up the heat in the garage hoping to go out and work later. BUT, just in case I ever do decide the climate change warrants making my AC work, how much does a set of Riviera triple wall hoses go for?

Bernie

[XframeFX]

I flipped through this topic just now and it’s making me take note for when I address the AC in my early ’63 Riviera. Being complete and not opened to the elements I’m hoping I do not have a contamination problem. The only mod is that I’m running shorter v-belts to bypass the A6 Compressor. I don’t trust the clutch and bearings, maybe a peculiar noise. Turns-out it is the 10DN alternator which I plan to change to a 10SI or 12SI alternator.

I have approached many ‘mini-projects’ on my Riv and they’ve been anything but mini. So,  I was hoping to farm-out the AC once the Riv is on the road. I don’t know of any reputable shops here in the north. Decision to replace components and stay with R12 or a conversion? Would like to stay original but I’d want it to perform cold. I have already bought some parts. Anyway, it will be a while yet.

I struggled with the ‘63s diecast HVAC levers and push/pull cables only to find Oldair has a complete cable set for the 63. Too late now. They also have colour-coded vacuum hoses that I haven’t found elsewhere.

Thanks Bob on all the info in this forum. I hope you’re about done!

Presently, I’m struggling with installing the 12 circuit firewall grommet. I’ve lathered it with petroleum jelly. A 2-man job, 1 pushing on the engine side and another pulling the harness next to the fuse panel. Next to impossible! Waiting for a helper.

John B.

[Turbinator]

2 hours ago, XframeFX said:

I flipped through this topic just now and it’s making me take note for when I address the AC in my early ’63 Riviera. Being complete and not opened to the elements I’m hoping I do not have a contamination problem. The only mod is that I’m running shorter v-belts to bypass the A6 Compressor. I don’t trust the clutch and bearings, maybe a peculiar noise. Turns-out it is the 10DN alternator which I plan to change to a 10SI or 12SI alternator.

I have approached many ‘mini-projects’ on my Riv and they’ve been anything but mini. So,  I was hoping to farm-out the AC once the Riv is on the road. I don’t know of any reputable shops here in the north. Decision to replace components and stay with R12 or a conversion? Would like to stay original but I’d want it to perform cold. I have already bought some parts. Anyway, it will be a while yet.

I struggled with the ‘63s diecast HVAC levers and push/pull cables only to find Oldair has a complete cable set for the 63. Too late now. They also have colour-coded vacuum hoses that I haven’t found elsewhere.

Thanks Bob on all the info in this forum. I hope you’re about done!

Presently, I’m struggling with installing the 12 circuit firewall grommet. I’ve lathered it with petroleum jelly. A 2-man job, 1 pushing on the engine side and another pulling the harness next to the fuse panel. Next to impossible! Waiting for a helper.

John B.

John, sounds like you can the AC PROJECT yourself. I’m not a mechanic nor mechanical, but persistence and resilience have served me very well. 

The biggest problem I have with AC EARLY on was diagnosis of problems with which component. So, I replaced every part AND had the hoses rebuilt. Now it can get expensive real fast. A large percentage of my expenditure went for labor. I dropped $1k getting a broken bell arm in the HVAC control panel fabricated and replaced. Another $1k+ at another BS shop.

if I could do it over again knowing what I know now I would have researched AC Specialty shops in FL and Texas. Let that AC specialty shop do the retrofit using the same vents I have now. Next choice take the car to a REAL restoration shop and have them rebuild the AC  at original.

My biggest problem was learning as I went along. The tuition was high. For instance I had the STV VALVE rebuilt 3 times. The STV rebuild failed 3 times real fast. More than likely contamination made them fail, I don’t know. Putting the evaporator and Thermal expansion valve under the dashboard was rough. This is not a hurry job.i ended up buying a real good book on AC. The next thing I did was buy the gauges, vacuum pump, and dry nitrogen rig. Don’t put compressed air in your AC system to test for leaks. Compressed air has moisture and moisture in your AC is real no no.

Use dry nitrogen to test for leaks. Put FRESH silicone O rings on all the fittings and use the same oil to lube the silicone O rings you use in the AC SYSTEM.My system is expensive because I could not find s shop that could not or would not repair the system.

BTW, I stayed with R12 b/c the R12 is more forgiving in your attempts for coldest air possible. If you go 134a then ALL your components should be 134a compatible. If you go 134a you should get your hoses rebuilt.

Everything I said is a result of some HVAC pro’s on the forum helping me over the last 3 summers.

Turbinator

 

[TexRiv_63]

12 hours ago, XframeFX said:

I flipped through this topic just now and it’s making me take note for when I address the AC in my early ’63 Riviera. Being complete and not opened to the elements I’m hoping I do not have a contamination problem.

John B.

The best way to check is a quick depression of the Shrader valve on one of the charge ports, if some Freon shoots out your system is most likely OK. If not the system is compromised. Either way you will have to do some flushing.