keninman Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Okidoke, by the age standards here this isn't that old. I purchased this on a whim after I viewed it on Facebook Market. It is a Siata Spring, the title says it is a 1970 but the vin seems to point to a 1969. Siata, 'Società Italiana Auto Trasformazioni Accessori' was in business from 1926 to 1970 (Wikipedia, n.d.). From what I gather it is built using mostly a Fiat 850 Spider and Siata making the body and chassis, which are about the same thing. I managed so far to have the engine purring like a kitten, except from the holes in the exhaust. I striped the passenger side front spindle nut and damaged the outer wheel bearing because I didn't ever consider a left hand thread. I was able to locate the bearing NOS but the M14 - 1.5 nut has been a fiasco. Speaking of fiascos just try to find shocks for this thing. Someone has restored it previously and changed the paint from yellow to red. The fell short of stopping the rust and now it has several spots bubbling up under the paint. The floor pans are nearly non existent and I am going to have to not only replace them but beef the whole center up or scoot my butt along the pavement. At least they are flat and not pressed into a bowl. I put the car up in the import forum and did get a couple of responses but man I could use some help. If anyone here has a line on other Siata Spring owners or mechanics who can offer support and advise I would be much appreciative to find them. Thankee all for looking and any help you can offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 https://www.iccsw.com/ I Googled Siata & found the above link. Check Facebook for a group also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, George Smolinski said: https://www.iccsw.com/ I Googled Siata & found the above link. Check Facebook for a group also. Thanks but they are a couple thousand miles from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Just be careful and let your head rule over your heart. You need floors, body work, exhaust, spindle etc and shocks. You do know that you are going to spend a lot more than the car is worth. It might be wise to cut your losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I disagree. It needs work but not a huge amount of work as such things go. The expense can be spread out by doing one job at a time. And you will have a cute, unique fun car to enjoy. It should be worth the money in entertainment alone. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 An interesting little car, Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripwire Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Maybe one of these might be closer to you or more to your liking. https://www.meetup.com/topics/italiancar/ https://fiatclubamerica.com/chapters/ http://www.carsfromitaly.net/clubs.html Wes in VT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Join the owner's club if there is one. They will be a valuable source of information and parts and may have some fun events. Chances are whatever problems you have, their members ran into and solved long ago. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 You should be able to replace the floors with flat steel or get someone to do it. To restore rigidity you might do what I did on an MGB many years ago. It looked good but had some badly repaired rust issues and the body was sagging. Rather than redo the bodywork I got 2 pieces of 1 1/2" square steel tubing and fitted them inboard of the rocker panels. I welded flat plates on both ends that went up into the wheel wells and bolted them on . I was astonished how rigid it made the whole body. I had planned to add angle iron pieces bolted through the floor but this proved unnecessary. As a bonus the steel made an excellent place to jack up the car or place it on a hoist. After that it was a simple matter to adjust the doors and this time they stayed adjusted. Any muffler shop should be able to bend up an exhaust pipe and for such a small muffler and pipe, should be very cheap. The wheel hub or spindle, well that is where it helps to know the owner's club and ask where they get parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 On 8/30/2018 at 5:25 AM, keninman said: Thanks but they are a couple thousand miles from me. True, geographically, but only a mouse click on the computer. They may be a good source of information even from a couple thousand miles. It was that way for my Riley. There is 1 group I joined in the US, but I also was in contact with members of a Riley group & parts supplier in England. Contact was both by phone & email. I've done similar but in reverse for Impala owners in Europe & Australia - sold parts & gave technical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings32 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Why does people on here say it is to much to restore a car . there isn't many cars out there that you will get your money back . It is the joy you get from doing them your self and the people you met along the way . I have meet a lot of great people with this hobby . When you are through with this world you can't take anything with you but your memories . Enjoy . Kings32 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, kings32 said: Why does people on here say it is to much to restore a car . there isn't many cars out there that you will get your money back . It is the joy you get from doing them your self and the people you met along the way . I have meet a lot of great people with this hobby . When you are through with this world you can't take anything with you but your memories . Enjoy . Kings32 Because for some, maybe a lot of people on here it is no longer a hobby & hasn't been for a long time. It is now a business or investment complete with dishonest wheeler dealers that show up whenever money in large quantities is involved, maybe not here, but they are around this "business." Perhaps you've heard the saying about 1970 Chevelle SS's. There's more of them today than were ever built. Edited August 31, 2018 by George Smolinski (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings32 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 But why discourge new members from trying there hand . ? We all started somewhere. It's like don't restore but buy from me . Kings32 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 kings, in my original post #5, I am only suggesting that ken steps back and evaluates how much work he is claiming he needs to do to get his car up to being safe and roadworthy. Repair or to replace the exhaust system, perhaps. To replace the floors and crossmembers, even though they are flat is not a job everyone. Cutting, grinding and welding is involved, unless you do a galvanized sheet and pop rivet job. The car is a convertible which will require bracing the body before you do any cutting. Replace the stripped spindle, ok, fairly simple unless it requires a spring compressor or special tools. Body work, the DS rear looks pushed in, do you repair it correctly with welded in patch panels or just Bondo over everything? All I am suggesting is don't be like the guy that has spent 70K restoring his Model A Ford, for gosh sakes it's a Model A. Sure we all started somewhere, but what is required on this car might be a bit much for someone that stripped a spindle trying to remove the nut. There are garages all across America with project cars that have stalled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 It is very easy to get involved in an old car project and end up putting more time and money into it than you intended, and more than it is worth. Even worse is to spend hundreds or thousands of $$$$ bucks, get discouraged and be left with a half finished non running car no one wants. This may be uppermost in the minds of those who have been ' through the mill' and want to warn others. This is a valid viewpoint but not the only one. I always suggest going over an old car clipboard in hand noting down all the parts and repairs it needs. Then sit down in front of the computer, price parts, and figure out what you are getting into. Map out a plan and make up your mind if it is something you want to commit to. If it is too overwhelming STOP don't do anything else, it is better to sell the car even at a slight loss, that to get sucked into a money pit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 This certainly did turn into a lively topic. I might spend more on this than it will ever be worth. I view it as a toy as well as a piece of history. One big issue is that it has a lot of Fiat content but not necessarily everything from one model as I have already discovered. I can replace the sheet metal in the floors but there is no way I can do it to original. I can weld up the exhaust but when that goes I will have to fabricate something else using whatever is available. I see that I have garnered some great ideas for groups that may know something I need to learn. As far as an investment vehicle, all of those are far beyond my means. Dad always said I had a Champagne appetite and a beer pocketbook but I usually come up with something that works. I appreciate everyone's responses and hope that more come in. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) You might be surprised how easily and cheaply your local muffler shop can make an exhaust system. If it has a conventional muffler and pipes they make them up from scratch every day, it doesn't matter what kind of car. For the spindle, floor etc it might be best to tackle one thing at a time. As I said, map out a plan, possibly first making the car roadworthy and driveable, worry about cosmetics later. I know pictures can be deceiving but it does not look that bad to me. Even the Owee on the left rear corner isn't so bad. You should see some of the Klunks they want to fix up around here. Edited September 2, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) Let's be reasonable. If I look in my local ads for an interesting fun car I see $5000 $10000 and up for convertibles, kit cars etc. These are NOT desirable collector cars, just 10 year old convertibles and fiberglass bodies on old VW pans. For something interesting from the sixties or earlier, or a muscle car it could be multiples of that. I don't know what the OP has in his car but if he had it on the road, all in for that kind of money (5 to 10 grand) most people would not find it unreasonable. This suggests that spending a few hundred, or a few thousand on floors, spindles, exhaust etc is a sensible move, at least as sensible as anything involving old cars. If you get tired of it you can always sell it and get most of your money back. If you get the chance to go to the beach, bomb around with the top down, wave at the pretty girls it's cheap entertainment. And you will never be younger than you are right now. Edited September 3, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 3, 2018 Author Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) I gave $1750 for the car. So far I have bought it 4 new tires which I have changed myself, the tubes look good, two tires looked really good but I know they are probably 10 to 15 years old. I have purchased enough brake line to replace all. The master cyl and wheel cyl have already been replaced. After much ado I believe I have two correct belts for the engine. All panels are with the car, the seats are torn but I plan to use cheap Ebay water proof seat covers. The top has a couple of holes but I don't intend to have it out on rainy days. I bought it a waterproof car cover so it does not have to stay in the garage. I wasted money on shocks that are completely wrong but have since found a Youtube video on how to modify cheap Monroe shocks to work. I damaged the spindle nut and apparently 14x1.5 LH nuts are in short supply. I bought a die to true the spindle threads back up and a tap to make my own damn nut. The two biggest challenges are going to be to find the correct Fiat parts and the rust. Way too much rust to not beef up many areas. This little car should go 75 to 80 miles an hour and right now I would not dare get it over 35. My first goal is to get it a floor, some undercarriage supports and rolling down the road before the snow flies. However I have been working every weekend and taking vacation days to help my son get a metal roof on his house and garage. Between the rain followed by 90 degree temps we are not going as fast as I had hoped but we are getting there. This little car will roll again and like Rusty suggested, it is just for fun though I would have to trailer it to a beach . BTW the rear fender isn't damaged, I just stuck the rear panel and bumpers on for the pic so they aren't bolted to anything. I didn't notice the once had angled down. Edited September 3, 2018 by keninman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) You shouldn't have to 'make' things like spindles and nuts. They should be available from Europe where they sold FIATS by the millions.This is one reason the owner's clubs are so important. Hell there are FIAT dealers in America again, it would be a hoot to go in there and try to buy a part for a 1969 model. They might even be able to get it for you. A good body man can fix the floors. They hate to do that kind of work because it is nasty, and there are liability issues. If there is an antique car club near you, or some old car shows, it will pay to ask around and find out who they use and trust. Later.... Is this your spindle nut? They call it an axle stub nut, left hand thread, and it fits Fiat 500/126/600/850 which are all the small models from the sixties and seventies. Price one Euro, which is less than $2 bucks. https://webshop.fiat500126.com/en/chassis-und-steering/front-axle/axle-stub-nut-left-hand-thread-_right-side I also stumbled on this forum site which covers all Fiat models including the older ones from the sixties and seventies. There is no Siata Spring section but a search turned up some posts. There is an 'other' section. https://www.fiatforum.com/ Edited September 3, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol' yeller Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 AH rust. I've owned vehicles that when I had to brake hard, I worried that the chassis would stop but the body would keep on going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 Rusty, the problem with this nut is that they do not list its specs. I did order a nut that is supposed to fit an 850 but it is 18mm and I need 14mm. There in lies the problem. The engine and drive train is from a Fiat 850 but what are the spindles from?????? If places listed the size and thread pitch it would be no problem unfortunately they only list models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 9/2/2018 at 12:27 PM, Rusty_OToole said: If you get the chance to go to the beach, bomb around with the top down, wave at the pretty girls it's cheap entertainment. And you will never be younger than you are right now. I friggin love this reply. It should be chiseled in granite somewhere! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Try belmetric.com. If they don't have it i'm sure they can direct you to someone that does. I'm sure there is one out there that fits your car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 I spend way too much time this evening looking for a brake spring I took off. Even Chanin came out and could not find it though I knew it had to be on or near the workbench. After much ado I poured myself another glass of wine and set down on my stool by the workbench and tried to call my 85 year old mother. She has always been good at helping to find lost things, she says she prays on it. Well this time she had lost her own cell phone and my call went to an operator that said her voice mail was not set up. I started to call her landline and looking down I saw that damn brake spring. Now I try not to be a superstitious sort but it makes a feller wonder. BTW, ma was fine, she answered the house phone and said that the cell was in her pocket which makes no sense because she still should have heard it. She is a bit (lots) forgetful but still must have some kinda Karma in her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 I did get a new outer bearing, part number FAG 509764. I used a 14 x 1.5 die to true up the spindle threads which I was afraid were ruined and the nut started life as lug nut that I drilled and tapped to a 14mm x1.5 left hand nut. The bearing was quite a find and fit perfectly. I post this so if anyone else with a Siata Spring can see what worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 I should comment that these probably belong in the forigen car section but since the car is so odd I hope that anything I post might help someone in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 Another Issue I ran into is that the generator would not charge. Like any good technician I started out making bad assumptions. I worked and worked with testing the voltage regulator unit and found a big tit on the field points. Filing this produced no improvement and shorting from bat to field actually dropped the voltage. I finally removed the belts and established that I could not make the generator run as a motor. Faced with the insurmountable conclusion that I would actually have to engage in real troubleshooting I dismounted the generator from the car. I put it on the bench but could not remove the rear end shield. I did manage to drive the armature from the front end shield and discovered that someone had absconded with the brushes. Well hell then, after much web searching and gnashing of teeth I did find a pair of brushes not far from here in Goshen, Indiana. Here is to hoping theys fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp928 Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 M14x1.5 is a VW and Porsche lug nut thread, so it should not be that difficult to find a LH thread part. A Fiat spindle should be findable somewhere, if you can get a picture up. You could even , maybe , fit a RH threaded spindle if they are not handed? Get a picture of the bare spindle and feed it into a google picture search. My Rover has a LH thread on its RH spindle, which I think means the spindles are fitted on the wrong sides. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2Pcs-M14-x-1-5-Metric-Left-Hand-Thread-Steel-Hex-Nut/280933297667?epid=910226746&hash=item4168edee03:g:sOgAAOSwsXFZJbvx jp 26 Rover 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 I wondered this myself JP928. It seems like the LH thread should be on the driver's side but when I look at the ones available for Fiats it says that the LH thread is on the right side. It seems counter intuitive to me and illogical since there is a washer with a tab that inserts into a grove in the spindle that prevents the bearing from ever spinning the nut either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 All of the metal brake lines have been replaced. Other than the main rear line blowing, the one on the drivers rear was a bear to replace. It was so badly rusted that I had to drill the lines out of the fitting so I could reuse them with the new line. All of the brakes are working now but the passenger rear has a leaky wheel cylinder, I hope the rubber will swell now that there is brake fluid in it. The headlights, tail and brake lights all work, the turn signals kinda work. I still need to put a steel strap under the floorboards to stabilize the passenger seat, reinstall the seat belts and install two remaining new tires and I believe I am ready for a road test. Albeit staying on the county roads very close to home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Found you a parts car or twin. https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/d/1968-siata-spring/6696793504.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Believe it or not there was one for sale in the Hershey flea market. They were asking $2750 and it came with a spare set of fenders and a grill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Saw a car like yours on the street today, well not exactly like yours, a rear engine Fiat 850 convertible. Followed it for a block before it turned down a side street. Haven't seen one of those in 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino59 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Fast.... or crawl forward to today.... My experience when I was 17 was to create a basket woven floor with strips of sheet metal and sheet metal screw to any good metal I could find. Add in gorilla hair fiberglass, and wala!! A floor! The little Italian went 80 mph no problem. Why after all this time did i subject myself to yet another Siata Spring?? I should have stuck a needel in my eye first, but now it's too late. Coming from Michigan. I am going to need parts. I am saying a couple of Hail Mary's and an act of contrition. Anyone have a source for parts???? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 What is "Super Snare" supposed to mean??? Funny. More sex appeal than a boatload of Hai Karate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 14 hours ago, mike6024 said: What is "Super Snare" supposed to mean??? Funny. More sex appeal than a boatload of Hai Karate. If I only knew that's all I needed to attract girls back then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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