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Restoration Questions - Painting Process

69 GTO

By 69 GTO
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69 GTO

69 GTO

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I'm restoring a 69 GTO and would like to know the proper procedure for painting. The car was disassembled, blasted and the body work completed. Then the car was reassembled to finish the body work and block sand. 

 

My question is, at the point the car is assembled and the block sanding has just completed. Is the proper procedure to then disassemble and paint each panel separately or is the procedure to leave the car fully assembled and paint the full exterior and then disassemble it to paint the undersides of fenders, doors, hood, jams, etc.? Shop owners opinions are very welcome here as they know their craft on the proper procedure. 

 

Thanks!

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Rusty_OToole 25,000+ Points

Rusty_OToole

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Paint door jambs under hood etc first. Tape off the outside to prevent overspray. Assemble the car and do the final paint job. If you really want a nice job paint all the panels inside and out, assemble the car, fix any flaws, then paint the car completely. If you do this you should give the outsides 2 coats, assemble, wet sand and do 2 more coats. That is if you are using the OEM type paint, for base clear or modern paints you will need to follow the manufacturer's instructions.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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R Walling 1,000+ Points

R Walling

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When I paint a car, all the parts are hung individually and painted inside and out.

 The body is painted completly striped down.

 This way there is no paint on the frame, fasteners and the body to fender attachment points are painted.

 The only problem this way is sometimes there is a slight color  and texture difference between panels  due to the humidity and drying times. (paint the doors and fenders standing up, not flat)

 Just be careful when reassembling so that you don't scratch it.

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joe_padavano 25,000+ Points

joe_padavano

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I'll add that with modern paints, you need to mask the outside when spraying the jambs and inner surfaces and vice versa. Recoating can be problematic with new paint systems. Be sure to read and follow the technical bulletins exactly. This ain't your father's lacquer anymore.

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joe_padavano 25,000+ Points

joe_padavano

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1 hour ago, erichill said:

I agree with Rusty. Have assembled for final spraying especially if using a metallic paint.  However its been 25 years since I closed my paint shop so I don't claim to be totally up on things.

 

Most high-end shops paint the panels individually but orient them in the spray booth so that they are in the same relative orientation as they are when installed. I agree that metallic requires special techniques to avoid banding and splotches, but modern BC/CC paints don't "melt" together the way lacquer did.  We used to shoot a final fog coat of over-thinned lacquer to blend the metallic together. You can't do that with BC/CC urethanes. Your spray pattern and technique needs to be perfect.

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Friartuck 5,000+ Points

Friartuck

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These are all good comments. I didn't see anyone advise you to block sand and block sand. Did I mention to block sand? A great paint job is one where you look down any panel and see no waves or ripples. I also didn't see any advice of paint products. I happen to like PPG products, beginning with the DPLF epoxy primer. Since its available to several colors you can color coordinate to the top coat. Since you don't want to break the epoxy coating, use a primer surfacer and block sand that layer. Another reason i like PPG is they make their sheets available to all: http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/home.aspx?lang=en-us

Each product has its own sheets for base and top coat compatibility.

http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/dualsearch.aspx?searchtext=DPLF&searchmode=anyword

 

 

Edited by Friartuck (see edit history)
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R Walling 1,000+ Points

R Walling

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Fitting  painted doors to a painted tub is something you do once in your life for good reasons. Bob 

 

 It is easy if you use certain tricks.

 Multiple layers of masking tape on edges (placed first on a piece of cloth to reduce stickiness)

Placing your fingers between the bumper and your precious paint.

 (fingers fix themselves, but not paint)

Help from a willing assistant

Taped up paint sticks for spacers when adjusting openings.

 AND, good common sense ,watching every corner and crevice.

 Chips always happen before opps's, don't let them happen.

 

 It's just like your wife having a baby, the first one has you all nervous, the third and forth, you just take another drink on the golf course and continue playing.

 

 

 

Edited by Roger Walling (see edit history)
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1937hd45 25,000+ Points

1937hd45

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Roger Walling said:

 

 It is easy if you use certain tricks.

 Multiple layers of masking tape on edges (placed first on a piece of cloth to reduce stickiness)

Placing your fingers between the bumper and your precious paint.

 (fingers fix themselves, but not paint)

Help from a willing assistant

Taped up paint sticks for spacers when adjusting openings.

 AND, good common sense ,watching every corner and crevice.

 Chips always happen before opps's, don't let them happen.

 

 

 

Only if the door, hood, and trunk lid were fit PERFECTLY back in the primer /block sanding stage and some type of reference markers were left for hinge placement. Bob 

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39BuickEight 10,000+ Points

39BuickEight

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8 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Fitting  painted doors to a painted tub is something you do once in your life for good reasons. Bob 

 

Hang the door from a cherry picker and the work is very easy.  That way you have zero stress in holding the door yourself, just attaching it.  Of course this one in the pic is just in primer, but you get the idea:

 

 

buick door.JPG

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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69 GTO

69 GTO

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Just to confirm, would any of you paint (and wet sand/polish) a fully assembled exterior before removing all the panels and painting the undersides and jams? I just pulled the vehicle from the shop who completed the body work and left the car assembled after block sanding/sealing and immediately put the fully assembled car in the booth and painted just the outside. Then the shop went into the wet sanding/polishing process on the exterior before they were planning to finish the painting of interior panels and jams. I'm not sure why it was done this way as it wasn't equating to an efficient process and it's likely the exterior would be scratched/chipped when disassembled/reassembled. The shop owner told me this was the best process for consisteny and efficiency but considering they went directly to wet sanding and polishing, I couldn't rationalize the benefits and reached out to a restoration expert who felt they were overcharging and questioned the process. This expert advised me to pull the car and continue with anther shop. I did this last Friday. 

 

Incidentally, the wet sanding/polishing took 40 hours on just the left fender, left door and roof. That's when I ended the project with this shop and contacted the expert who could not explain the rationale of the process. The estimated time to finish just the wet sanding and polishing of the exterior would be 125-145 hours (or 10-12K). Then it would need to be fully disassembled, underside and jams painted/wet sanded and reassembled. I pulled the car before this 51K project/475 hours (paid to date) turned into a $75-85K project (no mechanical/no parts/frame on restoration).  

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joe_padavano 25,000+ Points

joe_padavano

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34 minutes ago, 69 GTO said:

Just to confirm, would any of you paint (and wet sand/polish) a fully assembled exterior before removing all the panels and painting the undersides and jams?

 

That's like putting on your underwear AFTER you put on your pants.

 

FYI, a quality paint job IS expensive. It's about 90% labor, 10% materials, ASSUMING no body work or metal repair is required. I do all my own work and just the materials for a paint job can run me $2000. Do the math. No, it's not $50K, but it's not $5K either.

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1937hd45 25,000+ Points

1937hd45

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/29/2018 at 10:04 AM, 69 GTO said:

Just to confirm, would any of you paint (and wet sand/polish) a fully assembled exterior before removing all the panels and painting the undersides and jams? I just pulled the vehicle from the shop who completed the body work and left the car assembled after block sanding/sealing and immediately put the fully assembled car in the booth and painted just the outside. Then the shop went into the wet sanding/polishing process on the exterior before they were planning to finish the painting of interior panels and jams. I'm not sure why it was done this way as it wasn't equating to an efficient process and it's likely the exterior would be scratched/chipped when disassembled/reassembled. The shop owner told me this was the best process for consisteny and efficiency but considering they went directly to wet sanding and polishing, I couldn't rationalize the benefits and reached out to a restoration expert who felt they were overcharging and questioned the process. This expert advised me to pull the car and continue with anther shop. I did this last Friday. 

 

Incidentally, the wet sanding/polishing took 40 hours on just the left fender, left door and roof. That's when I ended the project with this shop and contacted the expert who could not explain the rationale of the process. The estimated time to finish just the wet sanding and polishing of the exterior would be 125-145 hours (or 10-12K). Then it would need to be fully disassembled, underside and jams painted/wet sanded and reassembled. I pulled the car before this 51K project/475 hours (paid to date) turned into a $75-85K project (no mechanical/no parts/frame on restoration).  

This is a Pontiac GTO NOT a Ferrari, correct? I'll never get my head around post WWII mass produced cars. Bob 

Edited by 1937hd45 (see edit history)
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joe_padavano 25,000+ Points

joe_padavano

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OK, I'm confused.  Is this the car we've been talking about and the "GTO" thing was just to protect the guilty?  In any case, this just boggles my mind. No paint in the door jams, trunk gutter, etc? The core support was not painted? The tail pipes are incorrect for a 442. Sorry, but I don't understand how this much money could be spent. You can buy the nicest 68 442 in the world already done for that kind of money.

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Frank DuVal 10,000+ Points

Frank DuVal

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On several GM car lines. the Fisher body plant painted the body, no doors, etc. That is one way to have no paint edge between quarter and door opening! Then the doors, hood, truck, front fenders were painted (and not necessarily at the same plant as the body)  and these were hung on the car at the xxx plant. xxx stands for Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, whatever car the plant assembled.

 

This also explains why some cars have paint mismatch between front clip and body.

 

Therefore, to match factory work you should paint the moving/removable panels off the car. 

 

But a lot of people like to jamb the car, then assemble the parts and paint the whole exterior at one time, to make sure of matching color and texture of finish. Potato Potahto.

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  • 1 year later...
GTONUT

GTONUT

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Posted

GREETINGS  as a seasoned pro  ive been restoring cars for 45 plus years   i feel bad for you  you as sooo many others are getting taken by  greedy rediculous bodyshops   to everyone out there  get a serious est on paper signed and dated with time frame cost ect  totally clear from the get go    dont let these bums steal your money   best wishes

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Terry Bond 25,000+ Points

Terry Bond

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It's an old thread, but like a lot of others here I followed it with great interest, partly because I'm a GTO lover and that's what initially grabbed my attention. Even though the GTO piece of it turned out not to be true, it was still interesting.  I'm wondering how this all turned out. 

Terry

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