jeff_a

Locomobile Prices Asked & Prices Sold

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 Nice price fetched for unrestored Locomobile.

 

A preservation class 1916 Locomobile sold for over $400,000 yesterday, at the Pacific Grove Monterey auction. 

It's a Model 38 Collapsible Cabriolet. Thanks to Judy Heikes for the info: she had a photo on the AACA Facebook page. Previous owner was David North of Maryland, who also has a 1904 Oldsmobile.

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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On 8/27/2018 at 7:58 AM, alsfarms said:

Jeff,  Is a picture of the 1916 Locomobile available to post here?

Al

Here is a picture from the Pebble Beach Concours, where it won an HVA-FIVA preservation award. It belonged to a prominent socialite, May Ridgely Brown Lee, then was picked up(1940s) by an ex-Locomobile employee named Emanuel Williamson, then(1980) CT collector John Delorenzo. Then(2014) supposedly by a "picker" who found it in the collection of Mr. Delorenzo and assisted its acquisition by David North. Data from Historical Vehicle Association, Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance & Worldwide Auctioneers.

Locomobile-800x533.jpg

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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Thanks for posting the picture and bit of the known history.  That makes for a very interesting Locomobile.  I have never seen a picture of a Locomobile with that body style.  I am guessing that this car is a Model 48?  I have a pair of real nice drum headlamps like these.  I either need to find a Locomobile to put them on or sell them to a Locomobile owner that can use them to complete a car.

Al

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Model 38. A smaller 6 than the Model 48 --- but still 425.6 cu. in. Both Pierce-Arrow and Peerless had model 48s, but came out with slightly-less-enormous models  called 38s. Perhaps Locomobile was following their lead w/ their 1912-1918 Mod. 38. No info on who the coachbuilder was.

 

Whether Locomobile, Peerless, or Pierce-Arrow....telling your wife money was tight and that you were going to get a 38 instead of a 48 in 1916....is like saying today: "Our finances are poor, we'll have to get a Bentley instead of a Rolls-Royce." The 38 HP Peerless was $4,200 -- the 48 HP was $5,200 -- for a Limousine in 1912.

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Yes, the 38's were very substantial when compared to the typical cars of the time.  I rode in a 1915 Model 38 7 passenger touring car a few years ago.  I was very impressed with the power and size of that car.  The Model 38 is a brute in its own right.  Years ago, I turned down the opportunity to purchase a 1917 Loco 38 parts car/project, but decided not to go that way.  I rather wish I had purchased the car now!

Al

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I was on a tour riding in a 1917 Pierce-Arrow 48 and they have a lot of power. Peerless 38s are rare and interesting,  too. You can count them on your thumbs, at best.

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, jeff_a said:

I was on a tour riding in a 1917 Pierce-Arrow 48 and they have a lot of power

Jeff, try riding in a Pierce 48 dual valve (1918 48-B-5, 1919-20 Series 51), which the factory claimed had 40% more horsepower than the single valve engines.  Pierce never mentioned bhp in their advertising, but some engineering notes say the dual valve tested at 121 bhp.  If you'll be at the Glidden in Twin Falls next month, you can ride in my 48-B-5, and drive it if you'd like.

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George,  Was the Displacement the same between the single valve and double valve P-A's?

Al

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Al, yes, 4.5 x 5.5 bore & stroke for 525 cid out of six cylinders in both single-valve and dual valve engines.  In my shop I have a extra set of used piston and rod assemblies from Jack Passey's estate, hanging upside down from a piece of conduit thru the big ends, with a sign reading "Pierce-Arrow wind chimes."

 

Those engineering notes as reprinted in the PAS magazine contain discussions on how the company could achieve better volumetric efficiency in the wake of, and to compete with, the new Cadillac V8 and the Packard Twin Six, both of which appeared for 1915.  To achieve parity, Pierce engineers calculated that they would need 3-inch valves (in the single valve engines) which would require heavy springs and would be noisy and quickly warp.  So they tried dual valves (4 valves per cylinder) of 1.5 inches diameter.  To do so, they went to removable heads.  Lifters are exposed.

 

The primary vulnerability of the DV engines lies in the minimal metal left between adjoining valve seats.  This is aggravated by the sharp edges at the top of each bore, making that metal susceptible to overheating and cracking.  Keep your DV cool!  Accordingly, during a rebuild, the Best Practice is to NOT overbore but to sleeve each cylinder back to standard, or even slightly less than standard, then chamfer the top edge to a 45-degree angle, to minimize hot spots.

 

The dual valve engines LOVE to climb hills!  They are total torque monsters.

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Afterthought: Al, if you'll be at the Glidden in Twin Falls, you are welcome to ride and drive too.

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George, Thanks for your insights regarding the P-A dual valve engines.  I am sure the P-A 31's were somewhat competing with the Locomobile 38's?  I am deep in restoration of the early Locomobile (probably one of Pierce-Arrows biggest competitors and not even one of the famous three P's) but I also have an unrestored mid 1930's P-A 12 project for the future.  Not sure about being able to attend the Twin Falls Glidden but I do certainly appreciate your kind offer.  I will see how my time pans out....and come if I can!

Al

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Al, I agree that the Pierce 38 hp (including dual-valve Series 31) were competitors of the Loco 38.  Hope to see you in Twin Falls!

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