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Roger Walling

1948 Chrysler Royal Limousine

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On 8/22/2018 at 12:21 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

Check out this fascinating story of a 1951 DeSoto Suburban 8 passenger sedan by the original owner. He drove the car more than 180,000 miles between 1951 and 1975, with one engine rebuild and an overhaul. My favorite quote, "at high altitudes at 70 MPH it smooths out like a perfectly balanced turbine". This in a 6000 pound car, with 4.11 gears powered by a flathead six. Towing a trailer.

https://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html

 

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Reminds me of a 1951 DeSoto limo I saw in San Diego years ago. MINT, condition except for one, small place on the front fender where moisture or some chemical ate the paint. The car was in a funeral home garage and my friend and I used to refresh it every few years (fluids/brake adjustments) for the owners to use it. The interior still smelled and looked like new.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)

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The 392 should fit into a 1951 or newer Chrysler or DeSoto limousine. Even one that came with a six. They made quite a few of them between 1951 and 1954, after that no more factory limos. You do have your heart set on a limousine?

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 Rusty, I kind off have my heart set on a 48 limo or an 8 Passenger sedan.

 I have a 31 Essex (2door)DSCN0599.thumb.JPG.b64e2c59e7845d2b00bb61ccbe583b89.JPG that I lengthened 36" and installed jump seats (actually the original front seats that fold forward) It seems to get a lot of attention when I drive it down the highway, keeping up with the  traffic.

Note the lower lamps mounted on the bumper that use the small dual headlight seal beam from the early 60"s. They are the only way to see where you are going. 

The original headlamps are totally useless and are like mounting a 4' fluorescent light on your car. 

Edited by Roger Walling (see edit history)
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If you want a limo the post war Chrysler products are a good place to look. They made a lot of them, they aren't very expensive and they are a good strong car and parts are mostly easy to get and reasonable in price, this goes especially for the six cylinder models. They won't burn up the roads but they will get you anywhere you want to go at the legal speed limit. Any time I have done a web search there seems to be 2 or 3 of them for sale somewhere around the country.

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I did a 46 coupe with a 392.

Aftermarket crossmember and a MII R&P, not that difficult.

 

 

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17 hours ago, JACK M said:

I did a 46 coupe with a 392.

Aftermarket crossmember and a MII R&P, not that difficult.

 

 

IM002854.JPG

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 That is just the way a restro mod should be presented.

 Perhaps a little heighter in the front end, but with that engine weight, maybe you should be forgiven.

 We used to call them Sleepers.

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I would like to tell you that this car is all sorted, but I have a vibration that I cant figure out.

I have tried multiple pinion angles and I can get it to change a little but not going away.

It sure feels like a driveline but I have had it looked at (yoke included) by two different reputable places and they both tell me its perfect.

I have changed the gear set twice (8 3/4) once with like gears and the second time with lower ratio which made it worse as things are turning faster.

My next step will be to put a dial indicator on the output of the tranny.

Its one of those A833s that has the over drive fourth gear, I have a close ratio tranny but would rather stay with the OD. I acquired the OD tranny as represented being just gone thru.

It had obviously been into as it had new gaskets and seals.

I know this vibration has to be behind the flywheel  as it doesn't go away when I coast at speed. Clutch in (or in neutral) and idling. But it still could be the output shaft.

Very frustrating and any ideas would be welcomed.

Sorry for the hijack but since this has been on my mind all winter and we are discussing these cars I needed to document.

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 Jack M,

 On your pinion angle, There should be an angle on it that matches the angle of the trans.

 If there is no angle or very slight, it would cause problems.

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21 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 Jack M,

 On your pinion angle, There should be an angle on it that matches the angle of the trans.

 If there is no angle or very slight, it would cause problems.

 

I've tried from 6 degrees down to six degrees up and EVERYWHERE in between. I can get it to change the severity of the vibration, but cant get it to go away.

I was very careful to set the pinion angle parallel to the crankshaft angle when I was making the mounts..

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)

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Is the pinion angle correct side to side.  A funeral home where I worked had a vibration problem and eventually we discovered that the rear end was crooked in the frame.  Longer wheelbase on one side was the giveaway.  Very easy fix once we knew the problem.

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22 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

Was your driveshaft balanced when you welded it?

I had it made and balanced at a reputable shop, They checked it again and tell me its good.

I took it to a second shop that used the word perfect, I just about have to rule out the drive line short of having a new one made.

 

22 hours ago, Tinindian said:

Is the pinion angle correct side to side.  A funeral home where I worked had a vibration problem and eventually we discovered that the rear end was crooked in the frame.  Longer wheelbase on one side was the giveaway.  Very easy fix once we knew the problem.

This is an interesting thought, It would mean that the leaf springs have a problem as that is one thing I didn't check very closely. I will do some measuring. I do know that the engine is square to the chassis and the car does track straight.

 

Thanks for all the input, Next time my rack is freed up I will measure up the rear end for square and put a dial indicator on the output of the tranny. It will be easy to tell when it gets fixed as its a pretty severe vibration. So much that I don't want to drive the car.

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)

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I do not think it would track straight if the rear was cocked easy enough to check measure wheel base.when driveshaft was built did it have a 1"" allowance for in out for suspension travel?ujoints need a look also.

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Cut the driveshaft and put a carrier bearing in the center. Or shorten a Ford 3/4 ton two piece. If you heft the front section and it feels like a loaded 3" round from a destroyer it will be just about right for that wheelbase.

Bernie

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The car is still parked due to crowded shop.

It tracks straight.

The driveline was modified from a 68 station wagon. It has a rather large weight on the tranny end that I have concern over.

But the experts all say that it is true.

You can see the weight in this photo.

 

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Posted (edited)

I have considered making a driveline with a center carrier, but this wheelbase originally had only a one piece drive line.

Thanks for the thoughts on this. It has been driving me crazy.

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

You can see that weight in this photo as well.

You can also see that there is room for the driveline to move in and out of the tranny.

I have never run into this problem before.

I am guessing around twenty or more builds.

 

IM002933.JPG

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)

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Is the front driveline yoke bushing fit worn /loose/wobbly even the slightest... that could cause a vibration at the rear of the trans especially with that heavy weight....

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One of the times I had the tranny out I had my guy install a new bushing and seal.

I don't think he checked the output shaft, I probably should have asked.

There is minimal movement of the yoke.

When I get it back on the lift I plan on putting a dial indicator to the yoke. and Ultimately the shaft.

This is an OD tranny, I have a close ratio trans that I may try just to see if it affects the vibration. If its still there I will have replaced everything behind the clutch.

And I know that this problem has to be behind the transmission as it vibrates with the clutch in and coasting with the engine idling. I even shut it off once.

I can make it do different things by playing with the accelerator. Kinda gets worse if there is less load.

If it does it with a different transmission I will just about have to have another driveline made up.

Thanks for all the input here,

I guess when I put something like this up on here I am hoping that I will get some magic ideas that hadn't occurred to me.

As I said, this thing is making me crazy. That's why I parked it for awhile.

 

PS: When I put an ad on Portland C/L a few years ago that I wanted an OD tranny and I would swap a close ratio trans a guy responded and we made the trade.

He knew how to ID what year and such my trans was and what his was from the top of his head.

This OD transmission was clean and had all new seals and gaskets as did my close ratio. I suspect that mine may have had a bit more value but I like the overdrives. (and I did use the correct bellhousing for the larger bearing retainer).

The guy I swapped with had some pretty nice cars and a nice shop and a beautiful home in a classy neighborhood. He had some rigs that I would love to own. I read him as an up front guy and was comfortable with the deal.

If I find that there is a problem in the transmission I don't think he knew about it.

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2 hours ago, c49er said:

especially with that heavy weight....

Very good point.

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Posted (edited)

Ok, first let me apologize that some how we got to talking about my New Yorker on someone else's thread.

Yesterday I got the car on the lift and was looking it over scratching my head.

I put a dial indicator on the part of the yoke the can be seen and it is perfect, like less than .001. So no bent out put of the tranny.

I got to thinking what would happen ii I were to swap ends and put the weight on the rear instead of the front.

Took the DL out and took the yoke off.

Turns out that the U-joint loops on the DL and the clearance in the yoke didn't allow for very much angle and were bumping each other.

I guess when they check for balance they rig it up dead straight and don't allow for engine angle.

A bit of grinding and put the yoke back the way it was and 95% of the vibration is gone.

I will now put the angle back into the pinion and will be good to go.

This was a hidden problem, couldn't see it without removing the yoke from the driveline. It was simply a mismatch of driveline and yoke.

Ahh the maladies of these home built cars....

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)

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