R Walling Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) Does a 1948 chrysler royal limousine have a door pillar between the doors? A friend has a Limo for sale and I can't open the doors to check if it is a Windsor or a Royal. I can't see what model it is, it's buried in the brush. If it is a Royal, it might be worth restoring? Edited August 18, 2018 by Roger Walling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I am pretty certain the Crown Imperial was the only Chrysler with the Sedambulace model where the center post between the doors can be removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I too believe what keiser31 has stated. that removable door post was a modification, often the work of the Derham Body Company of Rosemont, Pa. who were Chrysler dealers in that era as well in addition to their custom coachwork activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Sorry....I just re-read the question. Yes, there will be a door post between the two doors. The limo would have a glass divider between the driver and rear passenger compartments. The 1946 and 1947 have leather in the driver compartment and fabric to match the rear in 1948. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 As far as restoration, it depends on it's condition as to what all has to be done to restore it. If it is a true limo, it may have enough value. If not, it is probably just a four door sedan and may not be a worthy car for a full restoration if you want to gain a profit later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 It also depends on how much you like the car. Sometimes a car can be worth the restoration costs to the owner only. That is OK, too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 Thanks for all the info, I will get my machete and go and take another look to determine the model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Should be badges toward the rear hood sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Yes there is a pillar between the front and rear doors. The rear door hinges at the back which makes it a little confusing. Chrysler made an extra long body for 8 passenger sedans, limousines and taxicabs. They used the same body to make Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler and Imperial. I have seen and worked on a Dodge airport limousine with this body. All told they made about 20,000 of all makes, over 4 years. You could get anything from a Dodge or DeSoto taxicab, to a DeSoto Suburban 8 pass sedan, all the way up to a custom built Crown Imperial limousine complete with divider window and all luxury options of the time. All built using the same body shell on a long wheelbase chassis. 139.5" for the six cylinder models, 145.5" for the straight eight Crown Imperial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) There is the "B" pillar as noted on both the 8 passenger sedan model and the limousine'... some can be removed '' I am not sure that there is a divider window on any model of these low line Royals. 626 Royal 8 passenger sedans were produced....169 Royal limousine's were produced. I don't think eithermodel of Royal would be money wise to restore as the Royal is the lowest end Chrysler. A 1946-48 Crown Imperial limousine sedan might be worth the investment if all there and not rusty. That's a big might! Years ago I saw a nice original sell for in the $90,000.00 range . Does not mean that's what one of those eight cylinder Imperials is worth that! Some pictures of Royal LWB cars... Edited August 19, 2018 by c49er (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted August 19, 2018 Author Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) I went and looked at it closer today and it is about as good of condition as the lower photo above but not all torn up. It is a Windsor and has a door post but I didn't know they were removable, I will have to check to see if this one is. The spark plugs have been out for 20 years. It is a 7 pass. 4 dr.sedan, 6 cyl. (not a limo) Edited August 19, 2018 by Roger Walling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 Were most of these cars with the jump seats, actually funeral cars rather than private limos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Roger Walling said: I went and looked at it closer today and it is about as good of condition as the lower photo above but not all torn up. It is a Windsor and has a door post but I didn't know they were removable, I will have to check to see if this one is. The spark plugs have been out for 20 years. It is a 7 pass. 4 dr.sedan, 6 cyl. (not a limo) Some were removable....some were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Removable pillar was seen on cars used for ambulance service. It would help in getting a wheelchair, stretcher or casket into the car. Not sure the purpose on a car with full interior. These are wonderful cars. we had two unrestored like new examples a New Yorker and a Royal Sedan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Beautiful original C38 and C39 sedans! The T&C looks nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) As others have mentioned the door post was not removable. A few were modified for ambulance or hearse duty with a removable door post. Don't know if any survive. The pictures above seem to be of standard Chrysler sedans not the long wheelbase model. The limousine body was a foot and a half longer, a full 18" longer wheelbase, 139.5 on the six cylinder DeSoto, Chrysler Windsor and Royal models and 145.5 on the eight cylinder Crown Imperial. Here is the real 8 passenger sedan or limousine body. Edited August 20, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) Roger from your description it sounds like a rough condition parts car. Those old Chryslers are nice cars but not especially rare or expensive. If you want one you should look around for a better one, they are available for decent prices. A quick search turned up a few nice drivers from $9700 to $18000 with a Town and Country woody convertible for $109,000. If you find one locally you may get a nice sedan between $5000 and $10000. Edited August 20, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 I went and looked at it closer today and it is as good of condition as the lower photo above. It is a Windsor and has a door post but I didn't know they were removable, I will have to check to see if this one is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 I think the body work is minimal and thinking of painting it very dark blue and painting all the chrome (accept the SS mlds.) to keep the cost down. I am thinking about silver or another color that would complement the blue. Has anyone done this and were they pleased with the outcome? Plating the chrome would put the resurrection out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) It's all according. If you absolutely demand the long wheelbase 8 passenger with jump seats model that narrows down the choices. But, they did build a lot of them and some survive. If you just want a big sedan the regular Chrysler or DeSoto is much more available. In either case you could buy a good one for less than it would cost to put that junker back in commission. The exception would be if you demand the 8 pass and nothing else, and can't find one or if you just want a project and don't care how much time and money it takes. They are a big car with a lot of chrome, upholstery etc and not cheap to restore. Edited August 22, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billorn Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 That seems like a heavy car for just a 6 cylinder engine to move around especially with a Fluiddrive. If its anything like the picture it is more than just a paintjob away from being ready to use. You will spend the cost of a paint job getting it running again and making breaks and suspension safe. Plus wiring. Plus radiator. Plus plus plus. It adds up. Take Rustys advice and buy one thats closer to running. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) Check out this fascinating story of a 1951 DeSoto Suburban 8 passenger sedan by the original owner. He drove the car more than 180,000 miles between 1951 and 1975, with one engine rebuild and an overhaul. My favorite quote, "at high altitudes at 70 MPH it smooths out like a perfectly balanced turbine". This in a 6000 pound car, with 4.11 gears powered by a flathead six. Towing a trailer. https://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html Edited August 22, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) I have found another 1948 8 pass. Windsor. It has the original seat covers that were installed when new. The chrome has been re-done and is in a box. It had been repainted about 25 years ago and it runs. I want to negotiate, but the owner (who will never do anything with it) does not want to sell now. The waiting starts ... (The other one that I looked at would look very nice with a 392 wedged under the hood) The owner wants $2000 for it. No title. Edited February 18, 2019 by Roger Walling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) Any Chrysler product before 1951 is hard to put a V8 into because they were all designed for straight six or straight eight engines. When they brought out the V8 51 Chryslers they had to redesign the whole front of the car, make it wider, and move the steering over about 6 inches to clear the motor. It is possible to squeeze in a small block V8, you may have to offset it to the right for clearance. I have seen Chev 350, Dodge 318 and 360 installations. The Chev fits the easiest. The 318 and 360 are harder to fit, but both are the same size so it makes no difference which you use. Going by your description the other car isn't worth anywhere near $2000. If you keep checking out the ads you will find a good one to buy. I would rather spend 2 days and drive 1000 miles to buy a good car than buy a rusted out heap and spend 2 years and thousands of dollars trying to make a good car out of it. Edited February 18, 2019 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 Rusty, thanks for the info. on squeezing the 392 in. I hadn't looked at it that close. ( Now what do I do with the two 392's sitting in my storage?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) On 8/22/2018 at 12:21 PM, Rusty_OToole said: Check out this fascinating story of a 1951 DeSoto Suburban 8 passenger sedan by the original owner. He drove the car more than 180,000 miles between 1951 and 1975, with one engine rebuild and an overhaul. My favorite quote, "at high altitudes at 70 MPH it smooths out like a perfectly balanced turbine". This in a 6000 pound car, with 4.11 gears powered by a flathead six. Towing a trailer. https://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html Reminds me of a 1951 DeSoto limo I saw in San Diego years ago. MINT, condition except for one, small place on the front fender where moisture or some chemical ate the paint. The car was in a funeral home garage and my friend and I used to refresh it every few years (fluids/brake adjustments) for the owners to use it. The interior still smelled and looked like new. Edited February 18, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The 392 should fit into a 1951 or newer Chrysler or DeSoto limousine. Even one that came with a six. They made quite a few of them between 1951 and 1954, after that no more factory limos. You do have your heart set on a limousine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) Rusty, I kind off have my heart set on a 48 limo or an 8 Passenger sedan. I have a 31 Essex (2door) that I lengthened 36" and installed jump seats (actually the original front seats that fold forward) It seems to get a lot of attention when I drive it down the highway, keeping up with the traffic. Note the lower lamps mounted on the bumper that use the small dual headlight seal beam from the early 60"s. They are the only way to see where you are going. The original headlamps are totally useless and are like mounting a 4' fluorescent light on your car. Edited February 19, 2019 by Roger Walling (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 If you want a limo the post war Chrysler products are a good place to look. They made a lot of them, they aren't very expensive and they are a good strong car and parts are mostly easy to get and reasonable in price, this goes especially for the six cylinder models. They won't burn up the roads but they will get you anywhere you want to go at the legal speed limit. Any time I have done a web search there seems to be 2 or 3 of them for sale somewhere around the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I did a 46 coupe with a 392. Aftermarket crossmember and a MII R&P, not that difficult. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 17 hours ago, JACK M said: I did a 46 coupe with a 392. Aftermarket crossmember and a MII R&P, not that difficult. That is just the way a restro mod should be presented. Perhaps a little heighter in the front end, but with that engine weight, maybe you should be forgiven. We used to call them Sleepers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I would like to tell you that this car is all sorted, but I have a vibration that I cant figure out. I have tried multiple pinion angles and I can get it to change a little but not going away. It sure feels like a driveline but I have had it looked at (yoke included) by two different reputable places and they both tell me its perfect. I have changed the gear set twice (8 3/4) once with like gears and the second time with lower ratio which made it worse as things are turning faster. My next step will be to put a dial indicator on the output of the tranny. Its one of those A833s that has the over drive fourth gear, I have a close ratio tranny but would rather stay with the OD. I acquired the OD tranny as represented being just gone thru. It had obviously been into as it had new gaskets and seals. I know this vibration has to be behind the flywheel as it doesn't go away when I coast at speed. Clutch in (or in neutral) and idling. But it still could be the output shaft. Very frustrating and any ideas would be welcomed. Sorry for the hijack but since this has been on my mind all winter and we are discussing these cars I needed to document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Jack M, On your pinion angle, There should be an angle on it that matches the angle of the trans. If there is no angle or very slight, it would cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Roger Walling said: Jack M, On your pinion angle, There should be an angle on it that matches the angle of the trans. If there is no angle or very slight, it would cause problems. I've tried from 6 degrees down to six degrees up and EVERYWHERE in between. I can get it to change the severity of the vibration, but cant get it to go away. I was very careful to set the pinion angle parallel to the crankshaft angle when I was making the mounts.. Edited February 22, 2019 by JACK M (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Was your driveshaft balanced when you welded it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Is the pinion angle correct side to side. A funeral home where I worked had a vibration problem and eventually we discovered that the rear end was crooked in the frame. Longer wheelbase on one side was the giveaway. Very easy fix once we knew the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, Roger Walling said: Was your driveshaft balanced when you welded it? I had it made and balanced at a reputable shop, They checked it again and tell me its good. I took it to a second shop that used the word perfect, I just about have to rule out the drive line short of having a new one made. 22 hours ago, Tinindian said: Is the pinion angle correct side to side. A funeral home where I worked had a vibration problem and eventually we discovered that the rear end was crooked in the frame. Longer wheelbase on one side was the giveaway. Very easy fix once we knew the problem. This is an interesting thought, It would mean that the leaf springs have a problem as that is one thing I didn't check very closely. I will do some measuring. I do know that the engine is square to the chassis and the car does track straight. Thanks for all the input, Next time my rack is freed up I will measure up the rear end for square and put a dial indicator on the output of the tranny. It will be easy to tell when it gets fixed as its a pretty severe vibration. So much that I don't want to drive the car. Edited February 23, 2019 by JACK M (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54vicky Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I do not think it would track straight if the rear was cocked easy enough to check measure wheel base.when driveshaft was built did it have a 1"" allowance for in out for suspension travel?ujoints need a look also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Cut the driveshaft and put a carrier bearing in the center. Or shorten a Ford 3/4 ton two piece. If you heft the front section and it feels like a loaded 3" round from a destroyer it will be just about right for that wheelbase. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 The car is still parked due to crowded shop. It tracks straight. The driveline was modified from a 68 station wagon. It has a rather large weight on the tranny end that I have concern over. But the experts all say that it is true. You can see the weight in this photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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