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1935 Pontiac delivery


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I noticed that the sign on the door read, "Pontiac Motor Division" in two lines with the third line being illegible.  The fourth line read: "No.2".  I tried enlarging the photo, but could still not make out the third line.  The second word in the third line could be "Michigan", but that's just a guess.  Anyway, with the car apparently being owned by the Pontiac Motor Division, could it have been a design/styling exercise based on the 1935 4 door sedan?     I don't believe that Pontiac built pickup trucks in the 1930s (or later), so I think that the "Pontiac Delivery" of the Original Post was based on the Pontiac sedan and, therefore, could be termed a "sedan delivery".  Additionally, the wheels of the "Pontiac Delivery" appear to be stock sedan wheels, circa 1935.  Whatever it is, it's certainly a good looking vehicle.

 

Below is a photo of the 1935 Pontiac 4 door sedan.  The lineage seems to be apparent to me.

 

Image result for 1935 Pontiac 

 

 Cheers,

Grog

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5 hours ago, keiser31 said:

COOL!

John, I figure if anyone knew anything about this you would. I`ve had this picture for decades and seems like there was a statement that 2 were made, and they were used at an assembly plant to shuttle parts. Best bet on finding anything about this vehicle would probably be from an old plant employee.  Tom

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21 minutes ago, capngrog said:

I noticed that the sign on the door read, "Pontiac Motor Division" in two lines with the third line being illegible.  The fourth line read: "No.2".  I tried enlarging the photo, but could still not make out the third line.  The second word in the third line could be "Michigan", but that's just a guess.  Anyway, with the car apparently being owned by the Pontiac Motor Division, could it have been a design/styling exercise based on the 1935 4 door sedan?     I don't believe that Pontiac built pickup trucks in the 1930s (or later), so I think that the "Pontiac Delivery" of the Original Post was based on the Pontiac sedan and, therefore, could be termed a "sedan delivery".  Additionally, the wheels of the "Pontiac Delivery" appear to be stock sedan wheels, circa 1935.  Whatever it is, it's certainly a good looking vehicle.

 

Below is a photo of the 1935 Pontiac 4 door sedan.  The lineage seems to be apparent to me.

 

Image result for 1935 Pontiac 

 

 Cheers,

Grog

Grog, Yes on the door: Pontiac Motor Division  Detroit Michigan  No. 2     It has the 6cyl(brave) hood ornament, 8cyl cars had the Indian Maiden Goddess, and has the 4dr front door. I`m really not sure what it`s called, I called it a delivery, because to me that`s what it looks like.  I think the early General Motors Company(GMC)pick-ups had Pontiac engines, I agree, I don`t think Pontiac made any pick-ups.

Edited by pont35cpe (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, keiser31 said:

I notice the rear fender on the delivery vehicle is a lot shorter than the four door rear fender.

Good eye John, I know all the `35 Pontiacs used the same rear fender which tied to the rear panel under the tail pan which is not present on the delivery. I wonder if there are two doors on the back like a panel, or one door like a sedan delivery. I know panels usually have a pick-up cab and the delivery has a car front.

Edited by pont35cpe (see edit history)
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  • 1 year later...
14 hours ago, 1935pontiac605sedanman said:

 This was probably built for the factory as a parts Runner or for the plant managers. Olds did it in 1950. They made 7 sedan delivery "88s" for factory use.

 

 

Exactly, After marketing finished with this car and one other, this car ran parts for Pontiac engineering division;

1959 Pontiac El Catalina Prototype | F138.1 | Indy 2018An El Camino, Pontiac style – the 1959 “El Catalina” prototype ...

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1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

1959 Pontiac El Catalina Prototype | F138.1 | Indy 2018An El Camino, Pontiac style – the 1959 “El Catalina” prototype ...

 

 

Just think what a popular and desirable classic that would be today if Pontiac had produced them for sale. No offense to the Chevy guys, but it's way cooler than the same era of El Camino.

 

And, as others have said, that panel delivery is beautiful, too.

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I recall something about Pontiac building a few (more than one but less than a gaggle) for use around the plant. Back then people in the right positions at GM could build anything they wanted. Mine had to be built in Framingham because that was the only plant building both GTOs and station wagons. Had to pull a few strings to get the body colored bumper on my 70 GS. Helped to be a GMI student gearhead.

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On 6/22/2020 at 5:52 PM, padgett said:

Back then people in the right positions at GM could build anything they wanted. Mine had to be built in Framingham because that was the only plant building both GTOs and station wagons. Had to pull a few strings to get the body colored bumper on my 70 GS. Helped to be a GMI student gearhead.

So tell us the story, and are there any photos of it?

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I think that I either read or heard that all of the tooling for the 6-Cylinder Buick engine went to GMC Truck when Buick brought out the Straight 8 in 1931.  Hopefully someone on here will elaborate on that.  I have been a huge fan of General Motors Products for going on 60 years, however, I cannot recall ever hearing anything about Pontiac engines being used in anything other than their cars.  Like I said, I hope that someone who knows about things like this will educate us all.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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28 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said:

I think that I either read or heard that all of the tooling for the 6-Cylinder Buick engine went to GMC Truck when Buick brought out the Straight 8 in 1931.  Hopefully someone on here will elaborate on that.  I have been a huge fan of General Motors Products for going on 60 years, however, I cannot recall ever hearing anything about Pontiac engines being used in anything other than their cars.  Like I said, I hope that someone who knows about things like this will educate us all.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

I`m thinking `55-`59 GMCs were equipped with Pontiac V8s.

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Buick's tooling did go to GMC. Allegedly there are GMCs out there with almost-Buick engines. It does bring up more questions than it answers. There was a thread here as well as on the HAMB about an unidentified Pontiac-like car that turned out to be a 1932 or 1933 General Motors Cab made by GMC.

 

The interesting part is that the document that finally identified the car, a brochure, listed at least 6 GMC engines (cab, bus, truck) in wildly differing sizes, so couldn't have been all Buicks. IIRC they were all OHV designs.

 

In reality, GMC used a lot of Oldsmobile flathead sixes, and occasionally Pontiac flathead sixes. If GMC had the Buick OHV tooling, as well as a complete line of OHV engines covering every possible displacement range in 1933-34, why were they using a bunch of Oldsmobile flathead sixes by 1935-38?

 

The also used the Pontiac (single head) flathead 6 in 1938 1/2 ton GMC trucks, and allegedly used the Chevrolet OHV 6 in some application or another. I believe I have heard of them using the Pontiac split head six at some point too. Maybe @Tinindian would know about that? The split head six was used in Pontiacs in the late 20s and early 30s, so falls right in the era when GMC claimed to have a whole line of OHV engines and wouldn't have needed it.

 

The GMC OHV straight six we all know came out in 1939 IIRC, and is downright modern compared to the Chevrolet Stovebolt sixes it resembles at first glance. It seems extremely unlikely to me that this one could be based on the old Buick six. Does anyone know? Maybe they just recycled some tooling for the new design? There was also a large cube big truck OHV six a little later. It didn't appear until sometime in the 40s. Neither existed in 1932-33.

 

Back to the General Motors Cab. Later there was another thread in these forums about a second 1932 or 1933 cab, this one complete and restored. The owner knew about the other one. Apparently it had been a parts car for the restoration. IIRC this cab had an OHV engine. It was probably the old Buick six.

 

Confused yet? I am.

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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Jim: Have mentioned before but both were "different". Buick looks tame now but in '70 wasn't. Never really cared for chrome. Don't think I've ever had a "stock" car for long. Both had to be special ordered partly because green with a saddle interior was not stock. '75 Buick was used to win the FEA National Economy Run.

Thinking about an autobiography but would need to be fiction.

buvette2.jpg

75buick.jpg

.

 

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On 6/23/2020 at 7:15 PM, pont35cpe said:

I`m thinking `55-`59 GMCs were equipped with Pontiac V8s.

You are correct. 1955 = 287 cu. in. just like the 55 Pontiac

                              1956= 316.6 cu.in. just like the 56 Pontiac

                              1957= 347 cu. in. just like the 57 Pontiac

                              1958= 336 cu. in. different than the 58 Pontiac @ 370 cu. in.

                              1959= 336 cu.in. different than the 336 above in bore and stroke and different than the Pontiac at 389 cu.in., but again still the same basic block and                                  heads.

ALL engines above are the same basic block, just different bore and stroke and later engines use larger valves. All engines above are reverse cooled where the cooled coolant first goes to the cylinder head ( instead of the block) and through distribution tubes in the heads send a jet of  cooled coolant right to the exhaust valve on the other side of the water jacket.

below, a 1955 Pontiac V-8 and notice the right cylinder head with a arrow pointing the elbow where cooled coolant goes to the head ;

Inside the 1955 Pontiac V8 | Mac's Motor City Garage

below is a1959 389 tri-power engine and is basically the same engine above;

Auto History Preservation Society - Tech Pages Article1959 Pontiac Catalina DeLuxe Tempest V8 - Kloompy 

                                                                                                                                   A 59, 389 4bbl Pontiac

 

 

 

below is a 1957 GMC with a 347 cu. in. Pontiac engine;

1957 GMC Blue Chip V-8 Trucks & Tractors Foldout Brochure 100-370 ...

 

 

Pontiac Star Chief Coupe 1955

 

  

  

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)
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'20's, '30's engines in GMC trucks.

1928-1950 Oldsmobile F-Series(also modified for GMC trucks)

1936–1962 Chevrolet Blue Flame inline-6 (also used in some GMC trucks)

1939–1962 GMC inline-6

 

Buick 6 engine in T20 and T40

Pontiac engine in Light Delivery known a Pontiac in '27 and GMC in '28

T10 110” wheelbase, T20 132” wheelbase

GMC K102 4 cyl 4.5 x 6.5 '26-'29

Pontiac split-head engine in some GMC trucks up to 2 ton 1926-1933

Oldsmobile 6 cyl engine in some GMC trucks up to 1½ ton 1927-1933

GMC/Yellow Bus engine 6 cyl 3.5 x 4.5

GMC/Yellow Bus engine 6 cyl sleeve valve 4.25 x 5.5

GMC/Yellow Bus engine V8 engine '27-'29

Final 4 cyl GMC engine in 1929.

 

1930 T-60 B and T-82 A 94hp 6 cyl

1930 T 31 and T-45 76 hp 6 cyl 257.5 ci

1931 T-19A 60 hp 200.5ci Pontiac engine

1931 T-61, T-83 and T-90 NEW 112 hp, 400.9ci 6cyl

1933 T-18 and T-33NEW 69 hp, 221.4 ci,OHV replaces Pontiac split head.

 

1935 T-16 and T-18 1-1.5 ton 213 ci Lhead 6 cyl

T-23 2.5-3 ton 221 ci ohv

T-33 3-4.5 ton 257 ci ohv

T-43 3.5-5 ton 257 ci ohv

T-46, T51 4-6.5 ton 331 ci ohv

T-61 5-6.5 ton 400 ci ohv

T-83 6-8 ton 400 ci ohv

T-84 7 to 10 ton 450 ci ohv

1936 T-14 ½ ton 213 ci

T-18 new engine 239 ci

Also new engine 286 ci

 

It is my belief that all the OHV engines after 1934 up until the early 50's at least were either based on Chevrolet, Pontiac or on the Buick 6.

I believe I have read this but cannot find the reference right now.

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Now comes the Oldsmobile V-8 in GMC trucks.

Starting in 1955, for the larger trucks, the Oldsmobile Rocket V-8 was available. In 1955 and 1956, it was 324 cubic inches (5.3 L). Power listed for 1956 was 210 HP @ 4200 rpm; torque was 305 lbs ft @ 2400 rpm. For the 1957 through 1959 model years, it was upped in bore and stroke and called the 370. Power listed as 232 HP @ 4200 rpm and torque as 355 lbs ft @ 2600 rpm.

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This takes us a little off-topic, but I thought you guys might enjoy the picture. This is a 1934 Canadian GMC model T-14 sedan delivery. Chevrolet body with Oldsmobile front-end sheet metal. Enjoy.

1934 Canadian GMC.jpg

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On 6/21/2020 at 11:34 AM, JamesR said:

 

 

Just think what a popular and desirable classic that would be today if Pontiac had produced them for sale. No offense to the Chevy guys, but it's way cooler than the same era of El Camino.

 

 

 

It's the same old reason why Pontiac couldn't release the Pontiac V-8 in 1953 like it was supposed to or make their own sports car or continue racing after the G.M. ban on racing after 1963. The reason was the 14th floor inhabitants of the G.M. building.

Ever wonder where the looks for the C-2 Corvette came from? Take a look at this 1964 Pontiac below;

 

 53344806-770-0@2X.jpg?rev=357

53344819-770-0@2X.jpg?rev=357

 

Every Pontiac lover knows the story and the answer to the story,  " If they would just have left Pontiac alone ".

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

Looks like an Opal with Firebird taillights.

You mean the back end of the Opel looks like the Firebird with it's own Opel taillights.

 

You know Billy that Adam would be disappointed in you.

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8 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

I don't know who Adam is, and truth be told most of my knowledge of the Opal comes from looking at the box of the AMT kit😀

 

Now Billy, after all this back and forth Adam would really be disappointed. 

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