broker-len

poured bearings

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I know a fellow in Auburn Califunny that has done everything from a Caterpillar to a Stutz. He is good.

However, being on a world wide web? Your location is also very important.

Let me know if the Gold Country Sierra works for you.

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the debate about detergent oil in old motors has been going on,,,,,I am in south jersey,,,,shop near me did the bearings,,,,their position is --------------------NEVER------------use detergent oil with pored bearings,,,,wanted some one else to ask

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I guess that shop hasn't heard that old shade-tree mechanic's rumor about don't use detergent oils in old engines was debunked about 40 years ago ? So how does your shop  account for the millions of trouble-free miles using detergent oils with poured babbitt that has happened in those decades since ?

 

Try calling Reeve Enterprises in Cazenovia NY  315-655-8812. The shop owner is not just a life long engine rebuilder, he's a recently retired professor of Machine Technology at SUNY Morrisville.  It's three generations  with a total of at least 80 years experience and lots of college degrees between them.  They do all the machining, balancing, and poured babbitt - including into aluminum rods as original, .... that some shops say can't be done - all in house. The bulk of their work is antique auto, but they also stationary, commercial, race, and marine. Everything but aircraft.  

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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6 minutes ago, broker-len said:

Paul--thanks  do you have the owner's name ?------------I will call and put this to bed

  Owner Mike Reeve.

 

His son Patrick is most likely to answer the shop phone during working hours. He's also a good one to ask because he's extremely experienced and knowledgeable about all phases of rebuilding antique engines, too.

 

Paul

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spoke with some one there----------------very nice----------they put modern oil in all their old cars-------------------thank you for the info

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4 hours ago, broker-len said:

the debate about detergent oil in old motors has been going on,,,,,I am in south jersey,,,,shop near me did the bearings,,,,their position is --------------------NEVER------------use detergent oil with pored bearings,,,,wanted some one else to ask

We have poured bearings everyday for 54 years, all run on Detergent oil. Who every told you that is blaming oil for his bad workmanship, to cover his butt. In 54 years, we have Never had a bad bearing, or any bearing fail!

 

1. Aluminum Mains, and Rods out of a Franklin Auto.

 

2. Rods out of a 1937 Packard.

 

3. Chevy Four Mains.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Herm.

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Edited by herm111 (see edit history)
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Sure am glad the other guys set you straight regarding oil. Saved me the trouble. Thanks !   -  Carl 

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That is correct ! There is a builder in Ohio that does Auburn engines, inserts are used on both the rods and mains.  

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On 8/8/2018 at 10:28 PM, wayne sheldon said:

I know a fellow in Auburn Califunny that has done everything from a Caterpillar to a Stutz. He is good.

However, being on a world wide web? Your location is also very important.

Let me know if the Gold Country Sierra works for you.

Sent you a private message.

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My engine always had Mobil Oil in it since 1947 when I remember seeing the Pegasus on the can and probably earlier.  Was it always detergent? Or when did it become detergent??

MobilandPegasus.svg.png

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Was going to suggest you contact Herm in Iowa but see he's already responded. A1+++++ on the babbit work as always and I presume if they do line boring it would be to the same quality standards as the rebabbiting work.The pictures say enough.

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The way I heard it crude oil has a natural detergent or cleaning action that was in oils up to the 1940s. Then a new refining process took it out. This led to sludge problems so oil companies began adding detergents in 1947. It isn't detergent like you use in your washing machine but certain chemicals that keep the dirt in suspension and prevent it from gumming up your engine. At least, that is the way I heard it.

 

Multigrade oil depends on a different additive, like what STP is made of. They started making multigrade in 1951. It was the default choice in all gas stations and dealerships from the fifties on up. In other words if your car was made after WW2 chances are it hasn't used anything else but detergent oil and multigrade oil.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tinindian said:

when did it become detergent??

From https://iselinc.com/technology/brief-history-lubrication/

we get this paragraph:

"

1930s–1940s

Additives to inhibit oxidation, resist corrosion, enhance pour points, improve viscosity indexes, and more emerge in the 1930s. From the 1940s, they are widely used in lubricant formulations, especially to prolong the performance and service life of automotive engine oils. Prior to this time, engine oils without additives would typically provide only up to 80 to 100 hours of service. Also, the late 1940s marks the beginning of systematic oil analysis: The railway industry begins using it in an effort to avoid engine failures."

 

7 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

sludge problems

My reading shows that sludge formation is a natural tendency in oil with no additives. I read this in a 1940 text book by George George. This is one of the principle reasons oil change intervals were short.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

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On 8/9/2018 at 7:22 AM, broker-len said:

their position is --------------------NEVER------------use detergent oil with pored bearings,,,,wanted some one else to ask

 

Find another shop....... :blink:

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On 8/9/2018 at 11:25 AM, herm111 said:

We have poured bearings everyday for 54 years, all run on Detergent oil. Who every told you that is blaming oil for his bad workmanship, to cover his butt. In 54 years, we have Never had a bad bearing, or any bearing fail!

 

1. Aluminum Mains, and Rods out of a Franklin Auto.

 

2. Rods out of a 1937 Packard.

 

3. Chevy Four Mains.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Herm.

 

1928 Chevy 4 Cylinder. 015.jpg

1928 Chevy 4 Cylinder. 017.jpg

 

Herm, that clean of a shop should fill anyone with confidence.

 

 

 

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Never put detergent oil in Babbitt OR insert  if it has been run for many miles with no detergent. The detergent oil will loosen up the crap in the engine causing wear.  

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55 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Never put detergent oil in Babbitt OR insert  if it has been run for many miles with no detergent. The detergent oil will loosen up the crap in the engine causing wear.  

I guess I'll be the first of many to strongly disagree--where are you, Spinneyhill?

 

Very early detergent oils (early 1950s) MAY have had that effect, but not since.  I do recommend dropping the pan, and perhaps even cleaning out crankshaft oil passages and sludge traps, on any car that's had a steady diet of non-detergent oil.

 

Joe, look at it this way: If consistent use of non-detergent has partially occluded crankshaft oil passages, why would you want to make it worse?

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1 hour ago, Joe in Canada said:

Never put detergent oil in Babbitt OR insert  if it has been run for many miles with no detergent. The detergent oil will loosen up the crap in the engine causing wear.  

 

 Old wife's tail, me thinks. In my 8 decades+ I have seen no evidence of such.

 

  Ben

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