Mike Macartney

REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION

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I'd say that is just about a perfect rise in compression. It's enough to take advantage of better fuels and not enough to over stress the internal parts. Combined with lighter pistons it should make a marked improvement in performance although we have no idea how it performed new.

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Wow, I thought a reduction of 21 cc was a lot, but when you are starting from a compression ratio of only 3.8 the increase is not so much.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

Then, I could be able to help you more than with your present project!

 

Roger, I think with model making I would need more than just help. :)

 

I, some how, always have problems with small bits and pieces. Before Christmas I decided to fit some label plates to the draws of the 30-draw cabinet I bought.

 

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I made a jig to drill the holes for the screws. That work OK.

 

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Trying to pick up the screws to attach the label plates was the problem - lots of the screws ended up on the workshop floor! It may have helped if I had thought a bit more about what I had! I think these are wood screws and not self tapping screws - it needed super glue to hold them in place!

 

 

 

Edited by Mike Macartney (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

although we have no idea how it performed new.

 

I don't think the Humberette held the land speed record in 1914!

 

11 hours ago, mike6024 said:

when you are starting from a compression ratio of only 3.8 the increase is not so much.

 

Hopefully, it will at least help. I had hoped it may increase the CR a little higher, every little helps.

 

11 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

You are about to hit page 50 - should be a prize or something related to such !

 

I only hit 50 pages as I 'waffle on' too much! I do attempt sometimes to make my posts a little light hearted.

 

5 hours ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

Hope you get feeling better soon so you can get back to playing with the engine

 

Thank you Mike. I am now starting to get 'Cabin Fever'. I will have a go this morning and try puffing my way up to the workshop. I really would like to see if I can make a start on machining the pistons. It is also expensive being stuck in the house with the computer - I keep buying 'engineering stuff' on eBay! Just bought a tool post grinder yesterday.

Edited by Mike Macartney
change the text (see edit history)
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You maybe pleased to hear that I managed nearly the whole morning in the workshop this morning. I know I was pleased that I could at last do something. Some of the work ended up being a complete waste of time, but never mind. It also had before Christmas when I had decided to modify the crankshaft main shaft holding jig to fit in the lathe tailstock drill chuck. The diameter was too large to fit the chuck so I decided to turn it down to fit.

 

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What I forgot was, that it had been bored out from the other end and the part I was machining broke off before I got to the correct diameter "D'oh!"

 

I also did manage to make take measurements for doing the drawing work before I was 'confined to barracks'.

 

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Measuring the overall length of the original piston wrist pin.

 

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The same without the ends.

 

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diameter and thickness of the circlips I plan to use.

 

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A rough idea of the small end diameter of the conrod.

 

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Joe, maybe the extra hole may have been a method of originally holding the wrist pin in place?

 

I'll try and post what I managed to do this morning, tomorrow, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

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Is the hole threaded? I think you are probably right that the hole was for some sort of pin retainer. Conventional wisdom at the time required that the pin be tight in the rod and swivel on the piston only so if there was a retainer there it would have to have been one that allowed the pin to move radially.

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I forgot to have a look this morning to see if the small hole in the side of the original piston was threaded, although, I am fairly sure it isn't, I will check the next time I go in the workshop.

 

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At least, not being able to work in the workshop, made me make notes and drawings of what I was going to do to the Ford Zetec pistons to make them fit the Humber engine.

 

Yesterday, I decided to make a long bar that would fit snuggly in the gudgeon pin holes of the piston.

 

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This was so that I could accurately line up the inside faces of the pin holes at right angles to the gudgeon pin.

 

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I then I thought - "There's a hole through the Ford gudgeon pin. I wonder if I have some straight rod that will fit that hole?" Luck was on my side, I found an ideal length of rod of the correct diameter.

 

I checked that the gudgeon pin was at 90 degrees and clamped the piston to the milling table.

 

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I milled out 0.163" from each side. Which is enough room for the conrod and bronze bushes. I am modifying the first two pistons for Kevin, in Australia, as he is in more of a rush than I am. It also gives me a chance to practise on his piston before I do mine, but don't tell him that!;)

 

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Being a complete amateur at this machining, with the mill, I took my time and only machined off 0.010" at a time. I was concerned that the piston may move in it's clamps if I took too bigger cut.

 

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The first piston machined out and ready for the bushes to be fitted. I managed to machine both the pistons for Kevin this morning.

 

Both the drill rod for the gudgeon pins and the bronze material arrived this morning. So when I find out from Kevin the diameter of his gudgeon pins I can start making the bushes.

 

 

 

 

 

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Good Work Mike........With that success you probably slept well last night!

Al

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Thanks guys.

 

I have decided that I am going to 'thin' the width of the small end of my conrods down to the width that Kevin's conrods are.

 

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If I cut too much material from the inside of the piston it might weaken the piston just too much.

 

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Both pairs of pistons are now machined and are ready for the bushes to be fitted.

 

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I started on the bushes by facing off the Colphos 90 bronze and decided I was too tired to do anymore. Although I did measure and write down the width of the parting tool. Machining the other two pistons, this morning, was more tiring than I thought. I am still having to really concentrate with machining, it doesn't seem to be second nature yet. I will spend the afternoon thinking about the machining operations and the best sequence then make a start on the bushes tomorrow. I bought enough material to make extra, just in case I make a couple of mistakes. I want to try and do nearly all the machining from this end, then part off a bush. When all 8 bushes are made I can then face off the flange end to have a 1/16" thick flange.

 

Tonight is going to be my first night out, since the week before Christmas, I am going down to the local village pub, with Robert, to meet up with the other old boys, and put the world to rights!

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Posted (edited)

The right choice Mike. I've learned more than once that 99% of the errors happen when you are tired. I doubt that most of the people reading this forum realize how much tension us amateurs suffer from when doing this and how exhausting that is. It's quite different from general mechanical work in that sense. I get tired doing the brakes on my truck but there is very little tension involved.

 

I also find that I have my best ideas in the morning when I'm rested.

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Mike, I am curious, did you and your buddies solve any serious world crisis during your gathering at the pub?  If you didn't you missed a good opportunity.  I agree with your thinking on narrowing the small end of the rod to fit your modern pistons, in lieu of modifying the piston.  You are also taking some of the rotating weight away.  

 

Joe, I sure agree about the "potential tension" of doing machine work.  The end results and personal satisfaction can't be measured when a project is brought to a good completion!   I bet all of us have had one of those epiphany moments when a suitable solution to an issue that is confronting us while eating or sleeping and we immediately make some notes!  What is even more satisfying is when it appears that our idea is ultimately better than what the original engineer came up with many years ago.  

Al 

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The saving grace is that the original makers, unless they were one of the "best" - i.e. Pierce-Arrow, Packard, Locomobile, RR, Delauny-Bellville etc. – were all working to a budget. They may well have known, and I suspect most did know, that there were better ways of doing things but the cost involved was prohibitive. Even on something as simple as my project it is clear that many of my solutions would have been prohibitive at the time. They would be even more prohibitive now were I not doing it myself and even then I have not kept track of what I've spent on tools and materials. Nevertheless, I am certain it is far less than it would be if were paying $100 per hour for specialty machine work.

 

I suspect that between the reduction in reciprocating weight and the slightly improved compression ratio Mike's engine will produce 10% to 15% more power than it did new.

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22 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Mike, I am curious, did you and your buddies solve any serious world crisis during your gathering at the pub?

 

The answer is definitely NO. None of us can understand WHY anybody would want to be the President or Prime Minister of a country. Maybe, we just went to the wrong schools! When we arrived at the pub yesterday evening, there were only two other people in the bar, I suppose it is just after New Year and Christmas. I am pretty sure that not everybody in the village has given up drink for the New Year! As we left the pup at about 9pm the pub started to fill up with the Roadrunners for their monthly meeting, it's a local motorcycle club, whose members are mostly getting on towards our age.

 

Today was another stressful morning in the workshop, on the lathe, hopefully it will get less stressful the more machining work I do. Unfortunately, some of the photos I took did not come out well. It must have been nerves! I'll try and do better tomorrow.

 

I tried to work out how I could machine down the length of the smaller radius of the bush to 0.750" long. I had painted the bronze with marking out blue yesterday so I set my odd leg callipers to 3/4" and rotated the spindle to mark the bar. I then moved the lathe tool to the scribed line and set the magnetic backed dial gauge, I had recently purchased, to zero. I then took a 0.010" cut and set the cross slide dial to zero.

 

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It is the first time I have used a dial gauge for this purpose before and I was surprised how easy it was to stop just before the zero mark came up on the dial gauge. I kept removing metal and checking the diameter when I was getting near to the 0.812 + 0.001 or 0.002 that I was trying to achieve. Worried that I was going to take too much metal off, I checked the diameter with the micrometer a lot more times than I really needed to. Nerves and lack of experience I suppose.

 

I decide to drill a 1/2" hole a short distance into the end of the bronze, from this end, after first using a centre drill. I wanted to cut the groove for the internal circlip at this end of the bush, before I parted off the bronze and fit it in another size collet, to face and drill the other of the bush.

 

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The tool did cut a groove, but it was not deep enough. I think the problem was that I did not allow for the flexing of the slender lathe tool when I pulled the tool in for 0.040". When I tried the circlip in the groove I thought it was OK, but after I had parted the bush from the bar I found out that groove for the circlip was not deep enough. By then, it was too late to try and deepen it. We learn from our mistakes!

 

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Before I parted the bush I did make a chamfer on the end with a fine file. Maybe I should have used a lathe tool? At least I got the bush diameter correct. It measured 0.8135". The gudgeon pin hole in the piston is 0. 812". I measured the length of the bush part, that fits in the piston, with a Vernier caliper. I wanted 0.75", it measured 0.695" - Oooop's, I packed up for the day to 'lick my wounds' and have a think where I went wrong, and scheme some ideas how I can become more accurate. 

 

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Ready for my second attempt tomorrow.

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I visited England yesterday by having a Samuel Smith's Chocolate Stout.

 

 

Chocolate Stout.jpg

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I bet that brew isn't a milk chocolate variety!  🙂

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For anything precise I use a dial indicator fitted to the cross slide. I purposely bought a large 2nd hand Brown & Sharpe for that purpose, first because they only made top flight stuff and also because the large dial allows me to see it better. I can, if need be, get down to .0005 with it. Don't despair. We all make little flubs like that...unfortunately, the tension never goes away when it gets down to the last cut on a really precise part. I know at least one gentleman who, despite being vastly better than I am, still feels it.

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15 hours ago, mike6024 said:

I visited England yesterday by having a Samuel Smith's Chocolate Stout.

 

I hope you didn't get too wet on the outside with our constant rain at the present time! :) What's it taste like? At least the name is better than the Old Engine oil beer that I posted about a while back.

 

13 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Don't despair. We all make little flubs like that...

 

The encouragement from you helps a lot. Thank you. Any tips on cutting circlip grooves?

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I've never done it but I have seen an "internal grooving" tool that is what is needed.

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This is the tool I attempted to use to cut the circlip groove.

 

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I think the 'arm' of the tool is too springy and it did not cut properly.

 

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I'll try using this one on the groove that I am going to cut under the oil hole in the piston. It should help lubrication.

 

I faced off this end and reduced the thickness of the flange to 1/16". Centre drilled and drilled through at 12.5mm.

 

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This photo is out of focus but the tool did cut a groove for the oil.

 

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I reamed the bush. The drill rod I am going to use for the gudgeon pins fitted the bush OK.

 

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I tried the circlip in the oil groove and it seemed to fit.

 

Now, how am I going to machine a circlip groove in this end?

 

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It is possible that I can fit the bush in a collet and machine the groove from the other end if I am careful with my measurement's.

 

I bush nearly done - only another 7 bushes to make. At my present rate of progress that will take nearly two weeks?!? I'm sure I will get better with more practise.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

I've never done it but I have seen an "internal grooving" tool that is what is needed.

 

Just looked up 'internal grooving tool'.

 

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A bit similar to the HSS one I used.

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I'd use an expanding arbor, placing it so there was about .125 free space at the end. I'm not sure of the ID so if that isn't practical I'd consider making an arbor. A simple one would be a piece of 1" rod turned down to the ID of the bushing. Drill through and threaded for a tapered pipe thread. Then slit the end so it can expand and screw in a pipe plug. I used the kind with a hex socket in them. This doesn't work as well as the "factory" version but should be fine for something like a circlip groove.

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