Mike Macartney

REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION

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After cutting the thread I bored the centre out and reduced the diameter of the end to fit into the seamless hollow tube - if it ever arrives!

 

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Still boring!

 

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That should do. I won't part the threaded part off until the tube is here.

 

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I knew there was another reason for not parting it off - I needed the threaded portion to have a 'handle so I could use it to check the thread when I cut it into the block that holds the thrust race. I forgot to take photos of cutting this internal thread. It all went better than I expected. . . . .

 

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Apart from the knurling which was a failure.

 

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I milled out four slots for the C-spanner. I had to do this by eye, as I did not have any means of holding the round material, other than in the machine vice. At first, I had tried clamping it onto a V-block on the milling table but it came loose and broke the milling cutter!

 

The next job to do was making an end to braze into the hollow tube that will screw onto the thread on the 5C collets.

 

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I measured how long the thread had to be, added a bit and then cut a relief inside the tube about the depth of the thread.

 

 

 

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Again the internal threading went well.

 

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. . . . and the 5C collet threaded into the end.

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Wow... you are getting very good very fast! It is really pretty astonishing how fast problems vanish when you get accustomed to just making what you need.

 

jp

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Mike, I am certainly glad to sense that you are feeling more on top of the game and back to working on your project.

Al

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I could not resist posting this photo that a friend sent me.

 

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It is a while since I have posted anything. I have been waiting for some metal to arrive, to finish the collet drawbar for the big lathe. The parcel got lost by the courier and had to be eventually resent.

 

The coach trimmer has sent these photos of the work on the seats.

 

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I have just been down to see the Humberette at Moore's Trim. The work is a lot better than the photos show. I am extremely pleased with the work he has carried out, especially, considering he had nothing to go on apart from a few photos of other Humberette's. I shall now have to concentrate on keeping up the standards of my repairs to the rest of the car to match Paul Moores high standard of workmanship to the leather seating and hood (called a top in USA).

 

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Edited by Mike Macartney
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Hello Mike,  You are having a very good influence on some of us, especially me!  Keep up the good work.  I am interested to see the next step in the evolution of your engine rebuild.  I must re-read your early posts on your wood bending effort/success as I have located three nice thin wall steel tubes, (thanks to a bit of dumpster diving).  I should be able to braze the fittings I perceive that need to be installed for the steam supply and devise a couple of end caps that have provision for the condensate and exhaust to escape.  I am also going to build some "spacers" that will hold the wood to be bend off the bottom of the steam tube chamber.  Your posts have been and are a great source of knowledge, reality, success and (also a sprinkling of humor).  Keep it up.

Al

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Mike, the interior looks great. Very nice work. It's true about the Titanic  John

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Great work on the interior, looks fantastic and very comfortable, too.

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I seem to have got rather behind with my posts on this forum. I have been working in the workshop, just in case you think I've been skiving and lazing around! Most of the work I have been doing is on the lathe and the milling machine, attempting to learn a bit more about machining and trying to be more accurate in my work. I will try and explain through the photos below - if I can remember? Hopefully the photos might help me remember!

 

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Well, this isn't a lathe or a milling machine! I had forgotten all about this job. Ages ago, I decided to make a mounting on the end of the milling table for mounting either the bench grinder or the wire wheel and polishing mop. It all worked out fine, apart from having to change the 'grinders' over, every time I wanted to use the grinder, wire wheel or polishing mop. Now that I am using the lathe a lot more, I think I will need to use the grinder more often to sharpen cutting tools for the lathe and I thought it would help if I could have both the 'grinders' mounted where I could use them. The bench that I have is too small to mount both 'grinders', so I started to look for a purpose built pedestal that would mount two grinders. When I saw the prices that they are new, I had a look around the workshop to see if there was any equipment I had, that the two grinders would fit on. On spying the floor mounted pedestal drill that I had put to one side, when I bought the surface grinder, which I had put in the place where the pedestal drill used to live. I realised that, as I was only expecting to get a few quid for the drill on eBay, I might as well use this pedestal drill as a stand for the grinders, as I now tend to use the mill or the bench drill/mill that I have in the other shed when I want to drill holes.

 

I made a mounting frame out of 2" x 1" box section to mount the grinders on. Fitted M8 rivnuts into the box section for mounting the grinders to the box section. I very carefully measured the distances between the centres of the two T-slots in the drilling table and wrote the measurement in my note book, then painted marking out blue onto the frame and marked the positions of the 4-holes for the T-bolts with a scriber and centre punch. 

 

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Drilled three of the holes, but something just didn't seem quite right? Somehow I had made a mistake and the third hole was in the wrong place! Rather than drill two more holes I decided that 3 T-bolts would do and use a spare clamp that I had lying around, to finish bolting the frame for the grinders to the drill table. The grinders can be removed easily if I ever need to use the pedestal drill again for drilling. Will I never learn the lesson - MEASURE TWICE - DRILL OR CUT ONCE! Perhaps, I should use the tip that somebody has mentioned before. Measure once in Imperial, measure again in Metric and convert one of them to the other to see if they are the same.

 

Back to the work on the drawbar for fitting the 5C collets in the lathe.

 

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After threading the 1-1/2" bar for the thread on the end of the 5C collets I turned down the end to fit inside the part I had machined in the seamless hollow tube.

 

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Time to clean it up and braze it in place.

 

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I forgot to take the camera down to the other workshop where the oxy/acetylene welding bottles are. After brazing I machined off the excess braze. Next job is to finish the part at the bottom of the photo, ready to braze into the other end of the hollow tube.

 

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I cut the end off the bar in the donkey saw.

 

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This is the machining the other end of the hollow tube before brazing that end into it. I have more photos and details to add, when I get a chance. Now that I am feeling so much better, I am managing to stay in the workshop 'playing' for much longer periods than I have done for a year or two.

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Are you not concerned that the dust creating by grinding may land on the polishing wheel? Some protection on it when not in use could be appropriate.

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Re the pedestal drill... I find that using my drill press allows me to "feel" the drill better. The milling machine is probably more accurate but you have no sense of when you are pushing too hard. I've also found that having the added clearance under the spindle is a help so...I wouldn't get rid of it. You may find it's just the thing for some job you can't anticipate.

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44 minutes ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

Are you not concerned that the dust creating by grinding may land on the polishing wheel? Some protection on it when not in use could be appropriate.

 

Thank you Roger. I must admit I had not thought about it, as I have not done any polishing for a while. I left it on there to remind me there was a 'pointy bit' sticking out. Perhaps, with your suggestion, I could remove the mop and the 'pointy bit' (another one of my technical terms!) and put them in the draw with the other polishing stuff.

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37 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

I find that using my drill press allows me to "feel" the drill better. The milling machine is probably more accurate but you have no sense of when you are pushing too hard.

 

I did this little job for a friend the other day, trying to remove a broken stud in a turbocharger. Look what happened to the drill - it cut the hole but knackered the Dewalt heavy duty drill bit he supplied to the job. I found out the hard way that you are right!

 

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Still puzzling how I can get the rest of the stud out?

 

 

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It looks to me as if the speed was too high for the diameter. What is is made of? It looks like cast iron. Can you heat it and use an "easy out"? You have to be very careful with those because if you break it in the hole you are really in trouble but with fairly large holes like that it should work. I find they are worthless with small holes.

 

You could also drill it out a little bigger...just enough to almost touch the minor diameter of the thread. At some point you'll reduce the stud to just what is in the threads... I'd try the easy out first but not using too much force if it doesn't move.

 

A good trick for removing studs or broken screws is to use a left-handed drill...as it get hot if a chip catches it will unscrew all by itself.

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Cutting fluid would also prevents the overheating. I suppose the suds are not hardened but made with a strong steel.

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22 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Can you heat it and use an "easy out"? You have to be very careful with those because if you break it in the hole you are really in trouble

 

I have been there Joe, and got the T-shirt!

 

I have some left hand drills, I may try one of them, if I have one that is slightly bigger than the hole I have already drilled.

 

22 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Carbide dremel bit.  wear gloves, the little metal shavings are a pain to get out.

 

If it comes to that I will lend my friend my Dremel tool and he can have a go getting the rest of the stud out. He only bought this turbo from eBay as a spare, in case he ever needed it in the future, for his Volvo!

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I am still trying to catch up with writing my posts, I think I am now about to report on the end of last week, the longer I leave it, the harder it is to think back to what I have done?

 

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I cut off the threaded end part, to get it machined, ready to fit to the other end of the drawbar. I needed to drill out and bore the rest of the 1-1/2" bar as I had not gone deep enough when I drilled and bored it from the other end.

 

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Will the tube fit on?

 

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Well, that's a bonus!

 

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Now I am ready to braze this onto the end of the drawbar.

 

It now must be Saturday morning . . . .

 

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. . . . because Jane and I went to have a look at the work Paul Moore had done on the interior of the body. He informed us that this was the first time he had ever done any 'button back' seat work. We were both amazed at work he has carried out for us on the seats and the hood. We arranged to come and collect the body on Tuesday when he would have more staff on hand to help lift the body into the back of our Ford Transit van.

 

I went back to working on the drawbar

 

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Just in case it was difficult to unscrew the drawbar from the back of the 5C collet when I wanted to remove a collet from the spindle adapter I decided to make a hollow bolt to fit inside the end of the drawbar tube at the back end of the spindle. I turned down the hexagonal bar and cut a relief at the end to the depth of the thread.

 

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For readers not familiar with thread cutting on a lathe you have this dial connected to the leadscrew of the lathe. The dial in the middle, with the lines and numbers on, rotates with the rotation of the lathes leadscrew. There is also a lever that connects the carriage to the leadscrew. The dial has four lines, marked 1 to 4. Which means, I am pretty sure, that you could actually cut a thread with four starting points. I have never attempted, to date, anything other than cutting a single point thread. When cutting a single point thread you can push the lever down to connect the carriage to the leadscrew on any one of the four marks. Do you sometimes wish that you had never started trying to explain something?  Well for me I think this is just one of those times! When you do push the lever down to connect the carriage to the leadscrew the thread will start cutting in the same place every time as long as you don't move the metal you are cutting or the top slide (the part the tool post is bolted to).

 

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This is showing the lathe cutting the first 5 thou cut of the thread. With the 20 TPI thread I was cutting I needed to go to a final depth of 32 thou.

 

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I found, in one of my draws, that I had a thread chaser for a 20 TPI thread, so I thought I would try using it. Never used one before. It appears to take the 'sharp bits' off the top of the thread. Next, to cut a female thread in the other part.

Edited by Mike Macartney
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The numbers on the threading gauge aren't, as far as I know, for cutting a multiple start thread. Usually there will be some sort of plate on the machine explaining them but, as just a guess, I'd say it might be any even number of threads, use any line. For an odd number of threads you may need 1 & 3... There are a lot of different types and I'm not familiar with one that only has 4 marks. I've only seen them with intermediate marks as well. The plate on my machine that explains them is actually wrong. It says "any mark for an even number of threads" when it should say "any mark for an even number divisible by 4" I know this because I accidentally cut a multiple start thread once by using an intermediate line. I was cutting 6 TPI which is even but not divisible by 4. To cut a multiple start thread, I'd use a dog driver with the correct number of holes...cut one thread then move the dog to the next hole. It's something I'll try one of these days but I've never had a need to do it.

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13 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

The numbers on the threading gauge aren't, as far as I know, for cutting a multiple start thread.

 

After looking it up you are quite correct. What I wrote was a load of 'codswallop'. It just goes to show that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing and you can't believe everything you read on the internet! For even pitch threads 16, 18, 20 TPI etc. threads you can use any of the 4 divisions. Odd pitch threads, 15, 17, 19 TPI et. you can use any two of the opposite divisions either 1 and 3, or 2 and 4. In my Myford manual it says - "Only one mark must be used when cutting half-threads, such as 11-1/2 TPI". My question is when would you use a half-thread?

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BSP - British Standard Pipe. We have NTP which is similar but still slightly different.

 

(EDIT) You probably could do an odd number, 2-start thread by cutting one with the 1&3 setting than starting over and using the 2&4. I wonder if they make multiple start taps?

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, Mike Macartney said:

 

After looking it up you are quite correct. What I wrote was a load of 'codswallop'. It just goes to show that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing and you can't believe everything you read on the internet! For even pitch threads 16, 18, 20 TPI etc. threads you can use any of the 4 divisions. Odd pitch threads, 15, 17, 19 TPI et. you can use any two of the opposite divisions either 1 and 3, or 2 and 4. In my Myford manual it says - "Only one mark must be used when cutting half-threads, such as 11-1/2 TPI". My question is when would you use a half-thread?

I think watching that chuck spinning and too much beer was behind it😂😂

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