Jump to content

REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION


Recommended Posts

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 10:59 AM, Bush Mechanic said:

Wow! What a great score. Three pallets of machine shop goodies. That's the sort a thing we dream of, Mike. Especially here in Tasmania, where machinery and accessories are very hard to find. Well done.

 

I am not normally that lucky! It was definitely worth me asking about the extra bits in the photo! I paid a bit more than I would have done for the Bridgeport as I then knew all about the extra stuff.

 

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 11:04 AM, Roger Zimmermann said:

Was the McLaren stolen and ended in your yard?

 

I could joke and make up a story, but I may get arrested if it is thought to be true. :) The truth will follow at the bottom of this post.

 

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 2:36 PM, Laughing Coyote said:

Glad to hear your okay.  Looks like you got a lot of nice stuff. That should keep you busy for awhile.

 

Thank you Laughing Coyote, I am still struggling with the breathing, although I have managed to sort the tooling into boxes of the same sort of tools, eg. reamers, drills taps and dies, milling cutters. I have also spent about 1-hr each day cleaning the Bridgeport, I hope that this may help me learn something about the machine and find any broken or missing pieces. I wanted to do this before I wire it up and start using the machine.

 

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 4:25 PM, alsfarms said:

Tell me how the McLaren fit, does it need some more tailoring?

 

Al, I didn't even attempt to sit in the McLaren. I even manage to get out of breath getting into a normal car.

 

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 6:08 PM, Sloth said:

Well, the McLaren, that super car is only meant to tease us, we are just a humble lot very old car drivers (both ways that is), aren't we?

Mike, on a serious note, I hope your health will improve and wish that you may use your machines a lot, during many years to come.

 

Harm, you are starting getting to know me! :) I hope when the warmer weather arrives the breathing may improve a bit. At present I find it rather frustrating that I have given up smoking and my breathing seems to be even worse than it was with this cold damp weather.

 

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 7:22 PM, mike6024 said:

Green hatchback. Practically unheard of. I've only seen a couple in California, but in orange.

 

Not many of the BMW 02 touring's in the USA, only personal imports, from memory. The one in the photo is my daughters, she took over the Jaymic BMW parts business from me when I retired.

 

Last Thursday was the day the McLaren turned up. A film crew were here making a film about a BMW 2002 that has been turned into an electric car. They were filming the parts being collected. I could not believe it, but they were here all day for that! The car was on loan to the presenter of the programme who is a motoring journalist. That is all the information I have managed to glean to date. One of Fays staff managed to 'blag' a drive round the village in it.

 

2630.thumb.jpg.12ba7218dd30fa187ca11a68ef13473b.jpg

 

" Have I got enough loose change in my pocket to make him an offer?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Mike Macartney said:

 

 A film crew were here making a film about a BMW 2002 that has been turned into an electric car. They were filming the parts being collected. I could not believe it, but they were here all day for that!

 

Press people and associates  are very  inefficient people: many years ago, I used a whole afternoon with my '56 Biarritz as a newspaper wanted to write something about Cadillacs. When the issue was printed, there was just one picture published and certainly not the best!

Edited by Roger Zimmermann (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 7:57 AM, Roger Zimmermann said:

When the issue was printed, there was just one picture published and certainly not the best!

 

When our local paper used to write articles about us, we used to joke that - "Only the facts have been changed to protect the innocent" .:wacko:

 

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 8:32 AM, mike6024 said:

I owned a 1976 bmw 2002, bought in 1980 and sold about 1988. Terrific handling on winding roads through the hills.

 

I also loved all the 02's that I have owned over the years. Since I retired from the business, 15-years ago, the prices for these 02 BM's, in the UK, appear to have gone silly.

 

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 8:36 AM, mike6024 said:

One of your competitors, in the USA went out of business, was losing money. "Bavarian Autosport Has Closed. "

 

I am surprised to hear that. Fay's company has been going strong and sells 02 & CS parts all over the world. Jaymic moved into dealing with 02's in 1983. Today seems a fitting day to mention 02's as to day is 20-02-2000 (in the UK way of writing the date). The early 2002 touring was badged 2000 and later the 2002.

 

Still not got back to working on the Humberette. Breathing very bad again yesterday, Dr put me back on steroids. Feel a lot better today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to let you all know that I am still in the "land of the living" as I have not posted anything for a while. I had a visit from Joe last Friday, it was a very enjoyable afternoon and evening with him, I even managed to twist his arm and take him down the pub for some warm draft beer.

 

Eventually, I shall get back to working on the Humberette, although I have a lot of sorting out to do, with the machines and tooling I bought.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, thanks for your concern. I am OK. I don't think this cold, wet and windy weather we are having here in the UK is helping much with the breathing. Slowly, walking up to the workshop, doing a little of the easy tasks like cleaning up the Bridgeport and sorting out the boxes of tooling. Jane has been helping me with anything that needs lifting or moving as any movement like bending down to pick something up makes me breathless. When sitting down, doing nothing, you would not think there was anything wrong with me. The problem is, I've always been a busy person and not very good at doing nothing! Not having anything to write up on this site in the afternoons I have been trying to learn a bit more about machining by watching some you tube videos, plus sticking some stuff on eBay and planning where to put more shelves in the workshop. I may have to give in an try and find a local handyman to help with some of the jobs I want to do in future.

 

I will attempt to start back on the Humberette when I have cleaned up and sorted out the new machines. I have managed to buy two pairs of old stock Harley Davidson V-twin fork and blade conrods at a reasonable price. I plan to 'cut and shut' these conrods to use in the Humberette engine. At least things like that are keeping me busy and my mind working.

 

On one of the machining forums, I read that a fellow who had bought a second hand Bridgeport, was spending lots of money on tooling for it. His wife said he was having a love affair with this new machine, so she has named his Bridgeport 'Bridget'.  I really like that story, so now I have Bridget and Sally, the surface grinder. I am looking forward to getting intermate with them in the days to come, at present we are just getting to know each other a little better! :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do understand the “love affair” thing with a machine. I have what I call my 2 mistresses. They are housed at the local volunteer fire department.  The first is a 1978 Ford LaFrance and the other is a 1992 Ford E-One. I have never gave them a name, I just call them “my Mistresses”

I’m glade your on the road to recovery. My father in law has copd. He has had for many years. He has his good and bad days, it all depends on the weather. The cold and wetter it is makes it a bad day so I do understand what you are going through. Keep your head up and enjoy a pint or two at the pub. Spring is just around the corner. Mike

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/29/2020 at 3:23 AM, Mike Macartney said:

 

 

On one of the machining forums, I read that a fellow who had bought a second hand Bridgeport, was spending lots of money on tooling for it. His wife said he was having a love affair with this new machine, so she has named his Bridgeport 'Bridget'.  I really like that story, so now I have Bridget and Sally, the surface grinder. I am looking forward to getting intermate with them in the days to come, at present we are just getting to know each other a little better! :)

I kind of do the same thing but not with my possessions. Instead when I have a really nasty, rotten, PITA job to do around the house, I name them all after my first wife! My current wife, and last one, Michelle will often laugh and shake her head but this past summer got a kick out of me naming a big old 6’ Rat Snake we had in our yard after the ex. On that one she agreed the name probably fit!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since being stuck indoors not being able to do anything physical, due to my breathing problem, I have spent a lot of time reading posts on machining forums and the AACA forum, in addition to selling and buying a few things on eBay.

 

I found a guy who had a large collection of second world war Harley Davidson 45 parts and managed to buy two pairs of conrods for me to play with.

 

2640.thumb.jpg.01dfbb61f52e8f44a5c2530adb904c95.jpg

Harley Davidson 45 on the left, Humber V-twin conrods on the right.

 

Looking back on my posts, I see I mentioned this previously, but had not included a photo. After a visit to the doctor for a blood test on Wednesday, the nurse thought my breathing was terrible and called in the Doctor who checked me over and put me on yet another lot of antibiotics and steroids. He added, if you feel any worse, don't ring us, ring 999 for an ambulance! At least he didn't say ring the undertaker! You have got to laugh, but I must admit I am getting rather pee'ed off with not even being able to walk the 50 odd yards to the workshop. I tried it yesterday and needed 5 minutes to recover my breath, even before I attempted to empty the water from the dehumidifiers, I found I could not even manage to do that. I eventually managed to get back to the house and Jane kindly went and emptied them for me. With the damp weather we have been having, they need emptying every couple of days. The annoying thing is that my breathing is normal when I am sitting down not doing anything. Sorry for all this 'blurb' it's all a bit boring, but I felt I had the need to write something, perhaps I might have to start writing another book.:(

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

. . .  I have to add that I'm more interested with engine having more than 2 cylinders!

 

I had noticed Roger. I think the Humberette would actually fit inside one of your actual cars. Although, it would be the other way round for your models. :)

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

MIG Welding engine conrods

Can any member give some advice on the following bit of MIG welding that I would like to do. I have MIG welded, on and off, since around 1973, but only on vehicle bodywork and welding up angle iron fames, and the like.

 

As mentioned  previously I would like to change the conrod set up to a fork and blade system so that I can use roller bearings on the big end rather than the phosphor bronze bearings of the original. I also feel that it may give the engine improved balance and less vibration.

Now here comes the problem. The Harley conrods are around 7.5” between centres and the Humber conrods are around 9.5” between centres. Therefore, I need to increase the rod length by approximately 2”. I think I have two options.

I can cut a section out of one set of rods Harley rods and weld it into the other set of Harley rods. Or, my preferred option would be to machine up a section of new steel to match the section of the Harley conrod and MIG weld them into the cut rods. The rods would be cut at a diagonal of 45 degrees to increase the weld length and I would make a sturdy jig to hold the parts in place before and after welding.

If money was no object the obvious thing to do would be to have new conrods made. As good running examples of these Humberette’s only fetch between £10k and £15k, and I have spent more than this on the car to date, and still need to spend more, I don’t want to go down that expensive route of having new rods made. I also don’t have the machining skills necessary to make them myself from a steel billet. My question is if I buy ‘new steel’ to make the section, that I would like to weld in, what specification of steel would be best for welding to the old Harley Davidson conrod material and does anybody have any tips that may help with the welding? Another question - does anybody know what material Harley Davidson would have used for the conrods during the WW2, or have a suggestion on who to ask? Below is a drawing I have made of the blade type HD conrod.

2141626060_HarleyDavidsonConrods.thumb.jpg.53dc4af715bca96b21d1ce64251503f2.jpg

Do you think that I should I also post this query in the main part of the forum? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe some will not agree: from a friend who had a construction business, MIG is not suited for thick parts. Further, if I know that a connecting rod in an engine has been welded, I would go away as fast as I can from this engine!

Unfortunately, I cannot answer to your question, except that your query may get more anser if posted in the technical forum.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd have serious reservations about welding con rods, mostly because failure would be so catastrophic. I've heard of it being done but my guess is that you'd need to x-ray the welds afterward to make certain they were perfect. How about making them whole out of 7075 aluminum? Because of the way they are constructed it would be a lot easier than a conventional rod. The only serious problem would be getting the hole for the bearing perfect and that could be done with a reamer ground to the exact size needed.

 

7075 is tougher than the conventional 6061 - the tensile strength is very close to mild steel. It's commonly used for gears and, I think, aluminum rods as well. I know it is stronger than Lynnite - the alloy used around 1918 for pistons and for Franklin connecting rods a little later. The big proponent of aluminum for engine parts was Laurence Pomeroy, once chief engineer at Vauxhall. After WWI he moved to America where he worked for Alcoa developing alloys for engine applications. I have some period SAE papers on the subject I can send you.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Roger and Joe for your posts. I also put a post on a MIG welding forum and had umpteen posts that recommended that I don't do it. I like the idea of attempting to make them out of aluminium. Maybe, I may attempt that at a later date. Joe, I will ask you, for a copy of the SAE papers if I do decide to attempt the conrod making in the future. Firstly, I need to get my breathing back to at least some normality, so that I can get back up to the workshop and actually do something, rather than sitting about thinking of ideas!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you machine them from scratch, there is no need to copy the original dimensions exactly, especially the taper to the long section. Clearance is the only thing that matters. The conventional shape of a con rod was dictated by the need to remove it from a forging die, not the actual stresses on the rod. If you look at the "machined all over" rods used on some very expensive cars (Simplex comes to mind) you will see that the center portion is often straight. The highest stress comes at the center. It should be perfectly acceptable to increase some of the dimensions to the maximum amount the clearance allows.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm, even more thinking to do! Thanks Joe for the information. This afternoon I managed an hour in the workshop doing a little bit more cleaning up on the Bridgeport, that was enough for my lungs at the present time, at least that is better than the week before. Tomorrow, somebody is coming to put up some shelves in the workshop for me (I'm still not up to doing that myself yet). I need the shelf space for the things that came with the machines and somewhere to put the Humberette parts in a more organised fashion. I still keep buying machining stuff on eBay, so I'm not giving up the idea of still be able to do things in the workshop just yet.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd think for the big end to use roller bearings, it would need a hardened insert, especially if rods were made form aluminum, wouldn't it? Even these aftermarket harley rods which are made of  4140H steel look to have something pressed in for the bearings to run on. And yes the rods are not necessarily tapered. These look straight.

rods.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, definitely. If the rod was has hard as the insert for the bearing has to be it would be much too brittle. I'd bore the big rod to take one of the HD inserts - that way you would know that the bearing is more than adequate for the stresses involved.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Mike,

Since this is a low stress, low rpm motor  you have some options. 7068 T6511 aluminum would work very well for machined rods.

For cast rods I would go with A220 pearlitic malleable cast iron. You want it to be ductile as opposed to brittle. As Joe pointed out

you can alter the design to add extra strength where its needed as long as your clearances work out. If you go the cast route I would suggest

having the casting stress relieved. Tested for internal fractures might be good idea too.

 

either way, as others have stated with the needle roller bearings you would want a hardened insert for the outer race.

This could be a nice interference fit, pressed in than reamed to final size.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, I hope you are felling better. There are a few folks on this forum that have become a family of sorts, and you happen to be one of them. I hope that you get back out and about as quickly as possible. I love the work that you are doing on the Humberette. You are in my prayers for a full recovery. Thanks. John

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello John, thank you for your post, I am still here! I too have found that some of the guys on the this AACA forum have become good friends, without even meeting them!

 

Last Wednesday I had an appointment with the local surgery for the results of a blood test and a type 2 diabetes check up. I think they have moved the goal posts and now they reckon I am borderline type 2. I said to the nurse it is probably because I am eating too many biscuits (cookies) since I gave up smoking. Anyway, the nurse was not at all happy with my breathing and called in the doctor to have a good look at me, he was concerned at my shortness of breath especially as I had just finished a course of antibiotics and steroid tablets a couple of days before. They rang the acute medical unit at the hospital in Norwich and booked me in!

 

When I arrived two health care assistants, all done up in masks, gloves, etc. took me into a side room and told me to put on a mask. Apparently, a few minutes previously they had words from above, that anybody coming in with breathing problems was to be tested for Coronavirus and isolated. Being this pairs their first suspect, or should I say 'Guinea Pig', was not a lot of fun. Girl 'One' stuck a swab up my nostril as hard as she could, which made my eyes water. I also had another swab pushed down my throat. Girl 'Two' decided that the first girl hadn't done the nose swab properly and promptly stuck another swab up my other nostril as far as it would go! After being told to keep the mask on at all times, mentioned to them that having the mask on was making it even more difficult for me to breath and they said that I could pull it down to breath but make sure I had it on if anybody came into the room. After a few hours a hospital doctor came into to check me over, I told him that wearing the mask was a making my breathing even more difficult and he told me that there was no need to wear it as long as staff coming into the isolation room were wearing their masks, that was a relief.

 

Now to put things into perspective, to date, nobody in Norfolk has been found to have got the virus, so I was not overly concerned. Shortly, afterward a nurse came in and took blood and put me on a drip feed of antibiotics. I started rather enjoying my relaxing stay, in the peace and quiet, of this forced isolation, by Friday evening my breathing was a lot better and the doctor said I could go home. When eventually the staff nurse came with the discharge papers, I asked if they had had the results of the Coronavirus test, she said that they had heard nothing, but if I had the virus, she was sure that somebody would contact me!

 

Yesterday I managed about an hour and half in the workshop and this morning, I lasted nearly the whole morning before I started flagging. I actually feel much better now than I have done since before Christmas.

 

Now a question that one of you maybe able to help with. I bought some Evaporust, after seeing Jeff (1952 MG TD restoration) using it, I left some parts in it during the period I was in hospital and it has worked well in removing the rust from these items.

 

2642.thumb.jpg.d54aecca31a5bb95a614f3c9cd222018.jpg

 

All I did yesterday was take them out of the tank and dry them off. It has left a grey finish to the parts. Is there anything I should do to these parts?

 

Cleaning up the Bridgeport has been a lot longer job than I thought. I am pleased how it is cleaning up, but it is a slow process, I am just using strong liquid detergent with a brush and wiping it off with paper cloth as I don't want to use any aerosol products they may affect my breathing. After cleaning, I am spraying some WD40 onto a cloth and wiping that onto the bare metal surfaces to stop any rust starting.  

 

2641.thumb.jpg.b58e633934bb1f69d59cb7992e731acd.jpg

 

Having been in a toolroom, it does not look as if the machine has been abused too much. I was impressed with the fairly unmarked state of the 48" table. Last Tuesday, as my breathing was so bad, my pal Robert kindly brought his nephew round to mine, to screw in some twin slot verticals for some more shelving, so that I can get more 'stuff' off the floor.

 

I am finding now that if I take things slowly, and don't 'rush', I can pace myself a bit more, and then I don't get quite so out of breath. After a lifetime of rushing about doing things this doesn't come easy.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the Evapo-Rust, I generally use a blue scrubbing pad under running water to scrub that white film off.  It comes off easily and the parts look great.  Feel better.. your project looks great.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

Well, I only can hope that the latest medication will help you. I would like to see that Humberette finished!

 

So would I Roger! I managed all morning in the workshop today, I cannot believe how much better my breathing is, still a bit out of breath but nothing like it was.

 

2 hours ago, Gary W said:

After the Evapo-Rust, I generally use a blue scrubbing pad under running water to scrub that white film off.

 

Thank you Gary for that, I will give it a go.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Joe, I think I am a lucky boy! I did wonder what I was going to find when I unbolted the vice and was very pleasantly surprised when I did. I will be even happier when I have finished cleaning the machines and can use them. By carrying out a proper clean up now I am learning more about them. If I don't do the cleaning now I never will! Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very glad to hear you're doing better Mike!!  Maybe the Coronavirus got them to take your breathing issues seriously... might be a good thing.  Also, as Gary said, you should be able to wash that gray (sometimes blacks) off with a scrubbing pad.  I usually use a wire brush right after I take it out followed by a shot of phosphoric acid (a BIG NO for you) or something to prevent flash rust.

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, you said they gave you a drip feed of some antibiotics at the hospital and now you feel much better. Possibly your body reacted better to whatever they gave you than what you were taking before. I’d ask and make a note of what it was as it sounds like it’s effect was almost immediate. Glad you’re feeling better.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Mike and Good Day.....

I hope this note finds all well with you and your family.  We are all having a bit of a diversion with this dang Coronavirus issue!  I guess it is good to stay home and dream of things to do!  How are you doing?  I have been a bit quiet as I have also had other background things I have been dealing with.  Are you going to have a set of custom Connecting rods built for you Humberette?  My two cents and opinion would be to head in that direction.  I am sure happy for you getting some upgrade shop equipment.  We can never have too many tools for what we like to do!

Regards and Keep you head down until this Pandemic runs its course!

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your thoughts. As I am one of those in the 'vulnerable group' (age and COPD) I have been told by our UK Government to be in isolation for 12-weeks. Living in the rural setting of Norfolk, with a large garden and a number of sheds, it is not really any great hardship for me. I am still trying to sort out the tooling and machines I bought which is keeping me out of mischief, but stopping me getting on with the Humberette. With the children now off school in the UK, I can foresee that the access to the internet maybe a problem, especially as we are at the far end of the telephone cables, my internet connection seems to be dropping out more than usual this morning. Below is a photo of the front page of our morning paper.

 

2648.thumb.jpg.d3f7b386bd7318cdaaff09cecf8ece11.jpg 

 

I think Al is probably right with his comment "Keep you head down until this Pandemic runs its course!"

 

I think those of us with hobbies are the lucky ones. It must be rather boring for those without.

 

On the workshop front I have more or less finished cleaning up the Bridgeport and I checked the table level in relationship to the quill with a dial gauge.

 

2646.thumb.jpg.25a607696e7172339661ba8c0398d28c.jpg

 

In two plains

 

2647.thumb.jpg.08bc4829efe5df0824bc5923f7eb6e21.jpg

 

. . . . and I am pleased to say it was less than a thousandth of inch out.

 

I did make one cock up though; I refitted the vice to the milling table, fitted the dial gauge in the quill and checked the vice jaws to get them parallel to the table. I somehow managed to crank the table the wrong way, snapped the shaft of the dial gauge and buggered up the dial gauge. It was the only DTI I had with push button rear, so I am now waiting for a replacement.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You want to level the machine as well. In order to do that right, you will need a machinists level. I've also seen it done with a surveyor's transit but a level is probably a lot more practical.

 

I'll add that, if you don't have or can borrow a machinists lever, Moore & Wright were an excellent UK maker.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...