Mike Macartney

REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION

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Hello Al,

You are on the right lines with your thoughts. If I was doing the steam bending again I would do it as you suggested but would join the two steam tubes together with another bit of tube. The thin metal straps for the bending on the jig worked very well.

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RE: Plate glass and top bows.

Hello John,

Thanks for your posts and advice, they are much appreciated.

The upholsterer came round to have a look on Friday evening. He suggested screwing a steel bar on the top of the bow. I have decided to try fitting a length of 1" half round feathered edge mild steel bar along the top of the bow. I am waiting to hear back from a steel supplier as to availability and price.

 

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Posted (edited)

Mike, maybe knock 1/8 to 3/16" off the curved outer edges of the bow and I bet the issue pretty much disappears.  And if needs some more work, then you could also glue in a filler strip - modern glues are pretty great stuff and actually some are stronger than the wood itself, weather resistant, and ... 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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Thanks John, even more interesting ideas to contemplate. At least I have some time to think and progress the bows while the trimmer works on the seats and interior. Thanks again for all your help.

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Hello Mike,

I am reflecting on a comment or two that have been shared here on your forum thread.  My current thinking is on plating.  Plating is always a big pain in the pocket book.  You commented on doing your own Nickle plating on one of your other projects.  I have a nickle project in the works and would like to know the possibilities for a home plating set-up.  I assume that your success was with "bright" nickle plating not industrial?  What did you use for a power source?  How big of items can be home plated?  Where did you source your plating supplies?  I know this is not really in keeping with your current endeavors but something you have worked with none the less.

Al

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Hello Al,

 

The plating kit I originally purchased was from www.frost.co.uk

 

Below is a review, I have just found, on their plating kit.

 

https://www.frost.co.uk/review-vehicle-electroplating-electro-plating-kit

 

The nickel plating anodes, that came with the kit, were quite thin and I found that they perforated quite quickly with the use (I found some thicker ones to buy). Some parts of the kit I found to be a bit 'Micky Mouse' and replaced some of the hardware in the kit with better parts that I found from other suppliers, at 'bike shows'. I also added a 'bubbler' to agitate the solution while it was plating the parts. The bubbler seemed to be the same as is used in fish tanks. I still have the plating kit stored away. I have not used this Frost plating kit since changing from restoring veteran and vintage motorcycles to cars. The two MGBV8's I restored had chrome rather than nickel and I haven't needed to plate anything since. Most of the parts I plated were small parts like: carb parts, small brake parts, nuts and bolts. The largest parts I nickel plated were motorcycle acetylene headlamps.

 

The main problem I found was working out how long to leave the plating kit running for. From memory, sometimes the plating came out very dark and you had to start over again. I think this may have been caused by the part not being perfectly clean before going into the plating tank, but I am not sure.

 

I have just found this site.

 

http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19177&start=

 

At a quick glace of the above, somebody was not happy with the Frost kit and sent it back for a refund.

 

Below is a photo of a veteran 'Gamage' motorcycle, that I bought unseen in New Zealand, and ended up making and plating a lot of parts that were missing from the motorcycle when it eventually arrived in the UK.

 

DSCF1148.JPG.86e634f241340d9284bcaacc1228a316.JPG

 

I suppose I could have a go again at plating. My problem with the Humberette is that there is an awful lot of plating to do. To date I have chosen the easy path and have removed the poor original nickel plating to leave it as polished brass. Maybe I'll have another think about it when the trim work is completed.

 

It maybe worth you buying a book on 'nickel plating at home'. I am sure I have one somewhere in my collection. If you can't find one, let me know and I'll dig it out and give you the proper title and author etc.

 

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With regards to the downward bow in the top bows I have decided to take John's advice and glue in a filler strip. Robert came down yesterday and we trimmed up the remaining planks to tidy up the sides.

 

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While these were being trimmed we cut off some small sections to make the filler strips for the bows.

 

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Previously, I had marked the curve on a sheet of cardboard. . . .

 

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. . . . and measured the depth of the curve.

 

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This morning Robert brought me down the strips for the fillets, the glue and a cabinet scraper, for me to shape and glue in the fillets. I have ordered a small electric planer to help with the shaping. Luckily, Robert cut 6 fillets so that there are extras in case I mess some up!

 

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Being Easter this weekend, the planner won't arrive until next week. I had a go with trying to use a belt sander to start shaping the fillets, then decided to wait until the planer arrived. I also tried the cabinet scraper Robert lent me and that took the sealer off quite easily. With the fillets I will try and put a slight outwards bow in them to make sure that the top does not dip in the middle of the bow when the material is tensioned.

 

Other stuff I have been doing and not reported to date is:

 

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Flexible mountings for the silencer as suggested by Joe.

 

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Machining some flats on half a dozen wheels for a friends English wheeling machine.

 

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I polished the flats on the centre of the wheels after I had done the above machining.

 

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Straightened the base of the clamp for the 'donkey saw' I had bought. Over the years the cast iron had been worn away unevenly by about 1/8"!

 

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That should make it slide on the bed more smoothly.

 

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On trying the mechanical saw for the first time I investigated why the sawing arm did not rise when you put it into the lift position. I found that the bearing cap to the pump had been removed and was missing. I contacted the previous owner of the saw and he had just lifted the arm up. I am too old and decrepit to lift the arm so I found a hydraulic jack to use. The saw gently drops OK when set in the cutting position and the saw blade lifts on the outward stroke to protect the blade from excess wear. So that bit works OK.

 

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The trimmer is happy to have just the body without the chassis. So that he can move the body around easily on the bench I fitted locking casters on it.

 

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Fitted the door to the body.

 

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There was no way I could screw the end of this metal plate to the base board for the seat. I glued it in place with Sikaflex.

 

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Because I have seen photos of Humberette's with the heads of these coach bolts put in after the trim was fitted I thought I better fit them before the interior trim was fitted.

 

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So the trimmer didn't stab himself with he 'sticky out' bits of coach bolts I temporally fitted the ratchet for the handbrake. I will be making some better distance pieces. The ones that somebody made previously are a bit 'naff'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Due to a sort vacation, I had no time to look at your thread. What you are doing is nice; I like it!

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Roger, I hope you had a nice vacation. I thought everyday was a holiday for us retirees! Thanks for the kind words.

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I hope that Easter has been as nice in the UK as in the US.  You are coming together with several aspects of your project.  Good and good for you for sharing what you are learning along the way.  I am scoping out your references for Brite Nickle plating.  Did you use a battery charger for a power source?

Al

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The nickel plating kit that I bought from Frost included the power supply that had the variable control combined into it. It plugged into the UK 240 volt standard mains socket. Below are some details from an advert on the Frost website.

 

TO USE YOUR PLATING KIT, YOU WILL ALSO NEED Common Plating Module which includes: A 10 litre tub, Power Supply, Variable Control Unit, Suspension Rods, Support clips, Crocodile Clips, Dust Mask and Gloves. This Nickel plating kit requires the electrolyte to be about 30degrees, so we have included a tank heater. Other contents are 2 bags of Nickel Salts, Nickel Anodes, Scouring Powder, Test Kit and Instructions.

 

The main reason that I went for the Frost kit was that it included the Power supply and controller. Some of the other kits I looked at used a 12 Volt battery and light bulbs to add or take out as a controller.

 

The weather here in the UK has been warm and sunny over the Easter period. We even managed to take the open top MGBV8 out on Friday evening to meet up with Robert (The Woodwork Wizard) and his wife Gill, for a drink at a local pub. Jane and I were going to try and go out in the car again on Sunday, but it was so nice in our garden that we decided to stay put, I cut the grass instead. The problem is that the area in which we live, North Norfolk, is a popular holiday area . On any Bank Holiday the 'world and his friend' arrive and fill the roads up with traffic!  http://www.tournorfolk.co.uk/northnorfolk.html

 

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 The small electric plane arrived on Saturday from Amazon, so I had a go with it on Sunday morning, shaping a strip to fit to one of the bows. It worked well. I think this is the first time I have ever used any sort of plane! (I'm a metal work man, if you can't solder, braze or weld the material I don't normally want to know!) I have sussed out how to fit the new strips of wood. I will make a jig first to hold the metal frames each side parallel to each other. I will then take the metal frames, complete with the bows off the car, bolt them to the jig, glue and screw the new shaped bits of wood to the bows. Then remove the screws after the glue has set and plane and sand the bows to shape. As John Mereness said, if I am not happy with the result I can always have them covered with material. At least the steaming project was a very interesting learning curve for both Robert and myself.

 

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As you can see from the shadows the weather was very sunny. Sorry that they hide my lines of the shape the fillet for the bow should be.

 

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On the rear bow the rivets in the hinge mechanism was stopping the metal frame screwing right up tight against the wooden bow. I marked the position of the rivets, on some masking tape, attached to the bow and unscrewed the bow.

 

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I then drilled a couple of indents into the bow to accommodate the 'sticky out' part of the rivet. By the way, that's a technical term!

 

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After screwing the rear bow back onto the metal frame I fitted a ratchet strap to get the two metal frames parallel to each other.

 

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. . . .  then clamped my shaped fillet onto the front bow just to see how it fitted. Next job tomorrow is to make the jig so I can work on the bows off the body.

 

    

 

 

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Making the jig for the top metal support frame and attempting to remove the negative bend in the hood bows.

 

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This is some 2" x 1" box section I had lying around. I did not have a length long enough so1welded an extra bit on the end and angled the ends for the 1/2" diameter holes to bolt the frames to.

 

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I cleaned off the rest of the varnish, with the cabinet scraper, that Robert lent me.

 

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Marked the approximate centre line of the bows.

 

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Set my jig up in the workmate and got Jane to help me transfer the bows and frames to the jig and bolt the frames securely to the drilled box section.

 

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The temporary Philips screws were replaced with plain countersunk 3/4" brass screws.

 

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I 'attacked' the rear bow first. Fitting a ratchet strap across the wooden part of the bow so that the measurements across the legs of the bow were the same at both the back and front of the legs of the bow. I also cut a length of 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" timber to 'push the inward bend of the bow outwards, then fixed a temporary screw to hold the new fillet of wood in place to see what it looked like.

 

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Before I fixed it in place with glue and screws I fitted all the screws to hold the wood in place. Remember, this 'woodwork job' is all new to me!

 

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When I was happy with the fit I put the woodwork glue that Robert had given me on both surfaces and screwed the bow and the fillet together. The ends of fillet were a bit 'sticky outie' so I added a clamp at each end. Being a beginner at woodwork I used too much glue and had to wipe it off the joint where it had leaked out and off the top of the workmate where it had dripped. I put a couple of bits of wood underneath the bow to, I hope, stop the bow getting stuck to the workmate, otherwise I may have the only Humberette with a strange shaped roof rack!

 

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Now to wait 24 hours to see if this has removed the 'downward' bend of the bow - fingers crossed. 

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Posted (edited)

This morning I undid the clamps, removed the ratchet strap and undid the screws. The woodwork glue worked on the fillet for the top first bow - hooray!

 

1433.thumb.jpg.81e5a272fe92d33298cc3cd99f6b7853.jpg

 

Looking at the rule, which is touching in the middle of the bow, there is about a 3/16" to 1/4" gap at the end where my right hand is - just what I was after.

 

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With the rule level with each end of the bow, the bow is about a 1/4" higher in the middle - great.

 

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I finished replacing all the temporary steel Philips screws with brass slot head ones and started repairing the middle bow by ratchet strapping the width at the end of the metal bar to equal the width at  the pivot point of the side bars at the pivot point.

 

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Rather than use the plane I used a sander to smooth off the radius at the ends to attempt to blend the new bit into the old. As you can see in the photo, I left the end slightly proud as I was concerned about disturbing the glue.

 

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Just to be sure that the new fillet will stay where it is meant to be I screwed the fillet to the bow after sanding. Then sanded the next bow ready to glue the next fillet in place.

 

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This time I did not use quite as much glue and no drips to mop up! I'm starting to get the hang of this woodwork lark! Now I have to wait another 24 hours before I can get on with the front and final bow. I am thinking that as the front bow goes in front of the windshield I will try and get the front edge flat to match the windshield.

 

Edited by Mike Macartney
missing word (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Mike,

 

Try a place named "UK Contract Flooring". I found the web site but for some reason, I'm unable to copy the link on this computer. I'll try again in the office but they seem to have the lino you need in something other than "artsy" colors. Lino is a big deal in the "green" construction world so I can't imagine it isn't available in the UK. But, I suspect the term "Battleship Linoleum" isn't used. I just searched on Linoleum and looked at the sites that differentiated between the original stuff and vinyl.

 

I think Lino is the way to go. It's certainly what I'll be using. I'm sure carpet is wrong and I suspect that even if the car had rubber mats it probably had lino under them.

 

Those fillets added to the bows are great....do the job and will be almost invisible when the top is one. I don't know when I'll ever have to steam wood but your description of the process, and the subsequent problems have added to my store of arcane knowledge of how things are done.

 

jp

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Thanks Joe, I'll try 'UK Contract Flooring' for the lino Yes, I'm pleased with how the fillets in the bows went. I glued the last fillet on the front bow this morning. This one I have made 'flat' as it is across the top of the windshield.

 

1442.thumb.jpg.7c3bc75296896c2fe099bd26f8bfd4e4.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I have just called UK Contract Flooring, hopefully, they are sending me some samples. They did not seem at all happy at me wanting to purchase a small quantity. They kept telling me their minimum order quantity was 4 sq metres. I have also contacted https://www.restorationstuff.com/products.html by email asking if they would ship to the UK and they responded immediately saying they do. I seem to have more luck with American companies than I do with UK companies! I will have to 'way up' whether the shipping costs from 'Restoration Stuff' is the same/more/less than buying twice the amount I need from UK Contract Flooring! Restoration Stuff seem to have other items that I am interested in that I have not found available in the UK.

Edited by Mike Macartney
spelling (see edit history)

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I was afraid that might be the case... but perhaps they can tell you who would like to sell a small amount of perhaps buy an offcut.

j

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Joe, Contract Flooring were just one of those companies, that when you speak with them, if it is something out of the ordinary, they just don't want to know. I might try some smaller companies that maybe more helpful.

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This photo shows just how the 'fillet' screwed and glued in place has straightened the front top bow.

 

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With all the fillets now attached I sanded them with small electric triangular sander to shape the ends and curve the sharp corners. Finished the sanding by hand ready for the varnish to paint on the new additions to the bows.

 

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The bows attached to the metal frame and holding jig ready to varnish. After sanding I put some screws back in.

 

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Varnished with the first coat. I'll put another coat on this morning and then I can fit them back on the car tomorrow.

 

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As I still had a little energy left I wiped the underside of the body with panel wipe to remove any oil or grease.

 

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. . . . and started painting on the satin black paint.

 

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Jane has offered to paint the difficult bits where you have to be careful not to get the black paint on the blue! Brush painting is definitely not my favourite job.

 

 

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Here are a few photos I took a week or so ago and missed putting them in my reports.

 

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The door catch plate fitted OK. The area around the catch plate does not look as bad in real life than it does in the photo.

 

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I fitted the lock to the door. This is where taking photos and writing the reports helps. I saw when I was looking through the photos that I had forgotten to clean and paint the door lock. I have now removed the lock cleaned the brass and painted the black bits! When the paint id dry I will refit it.

 

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The hinges fitted well, but I had to pack the back of one of the hinges to get the door to close onto the catch plate nicely.

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Took the modified top frame and bows off the jig . . . .

 

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. . . . and fitted them to the body.

 

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Moved the trestle's to another position and finished painting the underside of the body.

 

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Also painted the inside of the body at the front end.

 

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Fitted the strengthening bracket, come battery clamp.

 

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I suddenly realised that this hinge panel would need to be fitted before the seat upholstery was fitted, as it is fixed by screws coming in from behind the seat back. I am using this black trim to hide the gap. I punched out holes in the black trim for where the screw positions are.

 

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Cleaned the surfaces with panel wipe before putting on the contact adhesive.

 

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Masked the area where I didn't want glue! (I am not very accurate with a paint brush!) and painted on the contact adhesive on both the wooden part and the black trim..

 

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Peeled off the masking. . . .

 

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Marked and trimmed the ends.

 

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. . . .  and stuck the trim in position. I think that will be alright.

 

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Screwed the panel in position with the 5-screws. As the screws are hidden by the seat back, I used what I had, Phillips headed screws! The original screws had rusted quite a lot.

 

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I am quite pleased with that. I just have to think how I am going to tidy up the hollow ends of the trim when it is viewed from the side.

 

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Fixed the top brackets, that I had made previously and fitted to the trunk lid hinge panel, to the trunk lid sides and touched up the satin black paint. The back end of the body should now be a lot stiffer than it was previously.

 

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A sample of lino had arrived from the manufacturer (Forbo). Jane and I had a look to see if we thought it would be suitable for the flooring. Thanks to everybody who gave me suggestions regarding the floor covering.

 

 

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You are quite the craftsman!  I enjoy watching this beautiful automobile come together!

 

Maybe for the open ends of the welting you could fabricate a decorative metal "plug" that would have sort of a "tail" on it so you could slide it into the welt and maybe with just a dot of epoxy keep it steady.

 

Steele Rubber carries these glove box bumpers that are made with a long tail.  Something along those lines may be a nice finishing touch for the open end.

 

Keep up the beautiful work!!  

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Many thanks Gary for your kind comments, it is much appreciated. Sometimes when writing posts on the Humberette restoration, and I get no comments, I think I am the only person who ever reads them!

 

Thanks also for the idea of the 'tail' to plug the end of the welt. When I wrote the post I couldn't think of the proper name of what I called 'trim'. I now realise I could have also called it 'piping' or 'cording'. It must be my age! I shall attempt to make a couple of plugs in the lathe to finish the welt.

 

I have just had a look at the Steele Rubber web site and saved it in my favourites for future reference. They look a useful supplier. 

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We are all reading your posts. Some of them are just too awesome to comment on. You are doing beautiful work. I would love to tackle a job working with wood, but I have two all-steel coupes to do.

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