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REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION


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I have deleted the duplicate posting's. Sorry for thing you were seeing double, triple, quadruple, etc!

As I stupidly managed to delete all the test I am editing this post to try and add the text back in.

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The debris of tools left over from panel beating the bonnet into shape. A good selection of panel beating dollies and hammers helps. 

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I have never managed to panel beat the dents out of panels without using some filler. I admire and envy people who have the skills to panel beat without having to use any filler.

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This photo is of the hinge panel after lightly rubbing down the epoxy primer, showing the darker areas that still have the black guide coat on. This needs more rubbing down until all the dark areas are removed. You then know you have the panel reasonably flat.

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All the guide coat removed and a reasonable surface for the primer coat

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This photo is not meant to scare you! I thought I would show you the face mask I have been using. I believe it is sold for woodworking. It has a rechargeable battery pack that supplies air through the filters, that are replaceable. The battery pack did not last that long before it decided not to recharge. I rewired the mask and now connect it to a 6 volt motorcycle battery that is in the top breast pocket of my overalls.

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This area near the hinge is going to be a problem area. I will not be able to get it flat along the area of the rivets as there are too many thicknesses of metal to try and straighten. I will just have to do my best without taking the whole bonnet apart. I am not restoring this car to 'show', I am restoring it to use.

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A guide coat spayed over the bonnet to aid the rubbing down process.

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I filled the screw holes in the trunk to body join mouldings and tried the trunk lid hinge panel to see if it fitted. It didn't! I then relieved the edges of the wooden hinge panel until it would slide nicely into position. 

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Screw holes filled and rubbed down.

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Just to prove it fitted here's a photo.

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I better check that the trunk lid also fits. There is a slight warp on the lid but I can live with that.

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The areas I welded on the underside of the bonnet (hood) were filled to tidy up my welds. Does anybody know why in the UK a hood is called a bonnet!

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Just showing where the low areas still are on the windshield support panel.

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Yet more filling. It is surprising how wide the filler spreads to when you are getting near to getting the surface flat.

 

Well, it seems I have managed to get some text back into this post with editing. It's probably not exactly the same text that I accidentally deleted, but never mind.

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Edited by Mike Macartney
Duplicate posting and loss of text (see edit history)
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I often have a problem with this site in that it repeats photos and/or inserts them out of order.

 

I'm enjoying these photos of the panel beating - something I know very little about. I've painted a couple of cars and motorcycles but that was many years ago. They came out OK - though perhaps not to the standards of "show cars."

 

jp

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Joe, I don't think it was a problem so much with the site. I think it was a more an operator issue! Today I am going to attempt to edit that last post on the panel beating and filling by trying to put the test back in that I managed to delete.

 

I am only going to prepare the body and parts for painting. I shall let the guys at my old company spray the colour coat as they have all the equipment and low bake spray booth to do a far better job than I can in my workshop. At present I am regretting that I have involved myself with any of the paintwork, as it appears that over the years, I have become sensitized to isocyanates that are in most paint and filler activators. My breathing has become a lot worse recently and I am suffering from very itchy skin. I hope today will see the last of the filling on the bonnet. I can then turn my attention to the metal work repairs on the front and rear wings.

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By way of a change from bodywork repairs. A fellow Humberette owner contacted me the other week asking "what is the thread on the bolt that clamps the adjustment on the steering box?" Apparently, he had mislaid the nut and could not find a nut that would thread onto the bolt. Being the helpful guy that I am?! I removed the nut and bolt from my Humberette steering box and checked the thread for him.

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I measured the thread diameter in imperial and found it to be an odd size.

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I then checked the pitch and found it to be 25 threads per inch which is also a rather odd pitch to be found on nuts and bolts. I seemed to remember reading some time in the past that Humber used metric nuts and bolts, which seems strange at this age of motorcar.

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I measured the diameter of the thread again in metric and found it was just under 8mm.

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On checking the thread pitch in metric it seemed to be 1mm pitch. Therefore, I was able to confirm to him that the bolt was an M8 x 1mm pitch. I had my suspicions that many of the bolts on the Humberette were metric, when I was working on the chassis of my car, as  my metric spanners fitted the nuts and bolts when my BSW/BSF spanners didn't fit.

Below are details of Tracy tools who are a good source of odd source of taps and dies.

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On the back page of their catalogue are listed the majority of thread sizes, TPI and tapping drill sizes. Their catalogue is worth getting just for this information.

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Well, after that interlude on bolt threads, it's back to more bodywork. I have found out that I am booked in for the body to be painted on the first week in January. I will not have all the wings (fenders), and wheels ready for painting by then. I should be able to manage to get all the parts that are going to be painted Royal Blue, the body and bonnet, ready by that date. Since the skin reaction I have been trying to protect myself by wearing a white paper coverall with hood. This seems to have helped.

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The areas of filler still seem to be getting larger in area. The guide coat definitely helps with finding low areas. Some high areas have also come to my attention. These high spots show up as shiny metal and can be moved level with some gentle tapping with a slightly domes planishing hammer.

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Areas that are difficult to get into with a air or electric sander were flattened with a block of wood with the production paper wrapped around the block.

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I inherited this square electric sander from a friend who died. In the past, I have always used air sanders. I have tried this square electric sander for the first time on this car and found it easy to use than the normal DA round orbital sander. It also has a bag that collects most of the sanding dust.

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The door needed a skin of filler all over the door skin. I didn't bother to put any black guide coat over the filler which after I sanded it made it quite difficult to see the low spots.

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Another morning of filling, I think that I should be ready to spray the final coat of epoxy primer on the wood parts and 2-pack primer over that and onto the bonnet (hood) and door tomorrow morning.

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I've done as much filling as I am going to do under the hood. I coated all the bare metal parts I could find with etching primer.724.thumb.jpg.6fd52c8a6c01b23b7a16f75269ced375.jpg

I have found this BIG BOY fine bodyfiller very good and easy to sand. I have been buying the small 250mL cans as I find larger cans can tend to dry out if not used on a regular basis. The metal spreaders are very cheap and much better than the plastic spreaders that come with the filler. After each fill I wash the metal spreaders and plastic one that I use for mixing in my Tupperware pot containing standard thinners. You used to be able to buy gun wash which would be suitable for cleaning, but it only seems to be available in 25L drums and I don't need that much.

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Wood bits hung up, ready to clean with panel wipe, clean with a 'tack rag' and spray.

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It seems ages since I last wrote a post. Looking at the date of the post above it's only a week. It does seem like a lot longer with all the rubbing down and filling.

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The final coat of epoxy was sprayed onto the wooded parts. Before the 2 pack epoxy 'went off', about as tacky as the back of a self adhesive postage stamp, the 2 pack high build primer was spayed on over the epoxy.

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I also gave the bonnet a good coat of primer. Then sprayed a coat of black guide coat, to help with getting the paintwork smooth, when I rub down the primer.

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I removed the masking over the metal panels that was there to stop the overspray of the epoxy primer and remasked the top edge to cover the wood framing. You can see in this photo that I have rubbed down the primer on the trunk lid and rear panel. You can see the difference in colour between the trunk lid hinge panel which isn't rubbed down and the trunk lid. As I did not want to rub through the epoxy primer I used a cork block with 240 grit rather than using powered sander. Took longer, but there was no rush to get the job done.

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Bonnet was rubbed, down with a sander and highlighted some imperfections that needed a bit more filling.

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Some of the screw holes in the alloy mouldings needed a bit more filling with fine body filler.

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More rubbing down and filling.

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All the bare aluminium parts were etch primed again where I had rubbed through to bare metal.

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I now hope I have finished with the filling and can get on with spraying the final primer coat.

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Before spraying I wanted to get all the holes drilled for the hood fixing turnbuckles. This 'gizmo' I found worked well for marking the holes to be drilled. It spays a dot of paint through the alloy jig.

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When you remove the jig you can see where to centre punch the hole.

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I found that by putting in one screw first the 'spraying gizmo' could be used to mark the hole through the turnbuckle without having to use the jig. This seemed to be easier and more accurate.

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Centre punching for the second hole.

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Screwing the turnbuckle on with one screw and then drawing through the other hole also marked the position of the hole well.

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It was a two man job, or should I say one 'man and his wife' as I got Jane to help me as I needed to get Jane to make sure I was drilling a right angles to the moulding.

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All turnbuckles fitted. Job done. Now to take them off again, have a good clear up and hopefully I can spray the final primer coat tomorrow.

 

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Thanks Joe. I remember driving old pre war sports cars in the 60's and 70's with 'scuttle shake' looking through the mirror attached to the windshield and seeing the rear of the car moving from side to side. Our 1934 Singer 9 sports, which has never been rebuilt, also suffered from this. Rather than renew the ash frame I fitted a metal box section frame inside the bulkhead to strengthen the scuttle and bulkhead. It's still in the car. I feel loathed to rebuild this Singer as it has character and patina the way it is. I mentioned to my daughter about possibly selling the Singer and she said "You can't sell it - it's part of the family!" We have owned this Singer since 1969.

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This photo was taken in 1980 when we were at Greenham Common American air base, attempting to obtain the world speed record with our 'Poppy Flyer', human powered tricycle. We left early as we were just off to a Singer rally in France to Le Mans and a trip up the Loire valley. The trailer is full of our camping equipment. 

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Getting ready for the final coat of 2k (two pack) primer filler.

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The body and other parts were wiped down with panel wipe (mild thinners) to clean off any grease marks.

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All the parts to be painted were then wiped with a tack rag to clean away any dust particles.

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I dressed myself up in a disposable paper overall and donned my in line mask that has the filtered air supplied by the Hydrovane air compressor.

Mixed the paint with the hardener (4 parts of paint to 1 part hardener and added some thinners. (not enough, I think?)

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I had bought a new gravity fed spray gun, as I thought the problems I had with the epoxy primer and primer filler, were due to the nozzle and needle set up being too small. The new gun had a 1.8 needle and nozzle. The problem came when I tried to reduce the pressure on the regulator. It just did not want to go any lower than 50psi to 55psi. I was not going to mess about with trying to repair the regulator at this stage with the paint mixed and dressed like a spaceman! I recommended pressure was 30 to 40 psi.

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There seemed to be a lot of orange peel. Perhaps I should have thinned the paint a bit more? After spraying all the bits I cleared up and cleaned out the spray gun and returned to the house feeling a bit 'peed off'. Jane cheered me up a bit by mentioning that probably the last time I did any serious spray painting was in the early 1980's.

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The next morning I went into the garage to inspect the primed body. I was expecting to find lots of runs in the paintwork. To my surprise the finish wasn't too bad and I didn't even find a single paint run. This cheered me up immensely. I then sprayed on a guide coat to help with the rubbing down process before the top coat. The final rubbing down and top coats I am going to leave for the Jaymic Workshop to do. https://www.jaymicworkshop.com/

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I remembered that were two more parts to get ready for the Royal Blue paint. These side supports for the windscreen. I decided that rather than spraying the complete bars blue I would leave the tops of the headlamp and screen mounts brass as they may look a bit odd being blue.

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The ends cleaned up quite well using Autosolv polish and the Dremel type tool with a polishing mop.

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The difficult to get to parts were polished with 'elbow grease' and a rag.

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Feels good getting everything into primer doesn’t it Mike. I’m there myself with my Olds and just a few weeks back didn’t think I’d even get there. Now the blocking starts, fixing of any areas that need it, some sealing of those areas, then off to paint. Congrats on getting to that light at the end of the tunnel. Looking forward to seeing it all finished up.

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Christech, thanks for the 'Congrats', but I still have all the wheels and wings to repair and prepare for top coat.

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These upright supports for the screen needed a bit of filler where there have been knocks and scrapes in the past.

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Now having finished the body as best as I can before the boys at my old company finish off the paintwork it's back to the boring job of trying to get the wheels looking reasonable. I think if new rims had been available I would have gone for them to save all the labour involved in repairing them.

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I mounted the windshield support pillars just to check everything fitted OK. I did have a senior moment when I tried fitting the internal wood supports. I couldn't get the machine screws through the holes. I even stuck a drill through and then realised I had tried to fit the left hand one to the right hand side of the car - 'bloody idiot'!

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When I had worked out the problem I decided to open the holes out in the sheet metal work to allow for a bit of movement to allow for the 'wing type beading' that I am going to fit between the wooden windshield support and the scuttle panel. I just drilled the holes 1mm larger.

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As there was now bare metal I treated the holes to some etching primer.

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As I had made a stupid mistake with these handed wooden bit I thought I better mark them up LH & RH.

Edited by Mike Macartney
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Wheels filled and tucked away so I don't trip over them!

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Now lets see what I can do to the Stepney wheel.

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When I visited this before I wondered how I could remove this brass push rod and spring which hold this spare wheel onto the side of the punctured wheel on the car. I just masked it up before I primed it and left it to remove later.

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On closer inspection I thought that this part must unscrew before the split pin was removed.

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I was right. After being in there for around 100-years it unscrewed easily, much to my surprise.

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The split pin wasn't as easy to remove, but it came out in one piece in the end.

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 I think I spent over a year of my life on mine!😩

 

Well - That's cheered me up no end!

 

Did some more rubbing down of just one wheel and look at my THUMB

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It's rather sore! I started trying to use my left hand instead. I may have to find some other jobs to do for a while until my finger and thumb heal up. Don't tell my wife that I am looking for other jobs to do or she may have me doing housework and gardening!

 

Following on from my last post that for some reason came to an end before I had finished.

 

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With the split pin out of the catch on the Stepney spare wheel the brass pin, brass washer and spring came out of the casting.

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I put the bits back together . . . .

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. . . . and put them in a plastic bag for cleaning up later.

Changing the subject completely I had a look at the uprights that support the windscreen (sorry windshield - I'll eventually get used to the American terminology!)

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As I mentioned before I want to keep the top end of these supports brass, although I believe the complete support would  have originally been nickel plated. I removed the windshield knob that locks the pivoting screen to try it on the support to see where I need to leave the polished brass.

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I found a washer I could draw around with a small blue marker pen.

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Stuck on a bit more masking tape and cut the excess away with a craft knife.

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Now I was ready to give them a coat or two of 2-pack primer filler.

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Rather than just painting the supports I thought I would also give the 4 wheels and Stepney wheel another go with the primer (I did rub them down first).

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The spindles and plugs, to protect the bearing surfaces, that I made a while ago, fitted neatly into the holes in the workmates. In the photo you can see I have tried to protect the cover on my MGBV8 with some masking paper. I've run out of old duvets and sheets. Perhaps I should invest in a roll of polythene?

Yet again I have run out of space to continue! Very frustrating.

 

 

 

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Mike, I know exactly the finger pain you’re talking about. 14 coats of varnish on 6 wheels. About one hours time sanding between each coat on each wheel means 84 hrs of painful finger work just on the wood part of the wheels. Then there was the filling of the pitted areas on three wheels. More hrs of finger work sanding. Then priming and wet sanding. Then wet sanding of three color coats. Wait, this isn’t cheering you up is it?

Edited by chistech (see edit history)
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Cracked skin heals up really quickly with vitamin A cream. The hospitals use it on patent's lips. (NOT ungvita or what have you in calamine lotion). It should be really cheap. I think mine is in a petroleum jelly carrier or something similar. The only thing is, you leave an oil slick on whatever you touch for a while.

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4 hours ago, Mike Macartney said:

Yet again I have run out of space to continue! Very frustrating.

I know the feeling. I have a shop to work my business out of and packed with so much equipment I don't have enough space to do the bigger stuff on my car. So I must do it outside when the weather is decent. Living in Arizona it's not too bad. The good part is I have an additional area to paint the smaller car parts.

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Christech, Spinneyhill, JV Puleo and Laughing Coyote,

 

OK I am just a WIMP with a sore finger and thumb! At least with these posts I have someone to air my complaints with!

 

It wasn't the room in the workshop I was complaining about. I should have explained myself better. It was that the AACA forum would not let me load anymore photos. I feel that even if you have large premises you probably still would like more room. Locally, our garden is nicknamed 'Shed City'! Until I retired, I never had a shed. Now I am making up for it.

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After rubbing down the filler on the windshield brass uprights I loosely tried the wooden section that goes between the scuttle and the windshield just to check that the screw holes were still in the correct position.

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I then removed the wooden section so that I could squeeze some of the Sikaflex marine sealant on the wooden edges where it screws to the uprights.

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The screws each side were then tightened and the excess sealer wiped off with a clean rag soaked in panel wipe. I was pleased with the result, it was better than I expected it to be.

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Next job was filling the screw holes to hide the heads of the Pozidrive screws. The 8 x 4'  MDF 3/4" board in the background is to use as a backing board for when we do the steam bending of the top hoops. Hopefully this will be in January.

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The filling on this side didn't go so well. I must have become over confident! It will need another application of filler.

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Back to the wheels and more filling. Although I had put on a guide coat after the priming, it was getting difficult to see what areas of pitting needed more filler. I thought I would try using a black 'Marker Pen' on the areas that looked as if they needed filling.

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I then rubbed the rim down with 240 grit production paper.

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The next day I suddenly remembered that in the dim and distant past when, I was working in the body shop, that I used to tape my fingers up to save getting blisters. It worked and protected my poor old sore fingers.

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While trying to use the marker pen, which was starting to run out, I thought - "I wonder if 'marking out blue' would work?". I gave it a try and painted it on around the edge of the rim.

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It highlighted the 'low areas' really well, although it did clog the 240 grit production paper a bit quicker than the marker pen or guide coat. Tomorrow on the next rim I will try and paint the 'marking out blue' on a little thinner. Good fun this messing about with old cars! But as the say -" It will be worth it when it's done".

 

Happy Christmas to all, if I don't make another post until after Christmas. 

 

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Mike, you have to leave this thread then come back to it if it tells you you’re not allowed to post anymore pictures. It never used to do that and we’re all in the same boat now. If you post your photo max in one post then try a second post, it won’t let you add those pictures. You have to leave your thread and go at least to the main restoration forum then come back to your thread. It will then reload the photo mb limit.

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1 hour ago, Mike Macartney said:

Locally, our garden is nicknamed 'Shed City'! Until I retired, I never had a shed. Now I am making up for it.

 

 

English garden sheds are well known in the antique arms world. Some amazing items have been made in the garden shed. I've seen a few, including a cased Patterson Colt that had the London Arms Fair in a tizzy about 30 years ago.  It is said that Sir Henry Royce got his first exposure to machine tools in the garden shed of a family he boarded with as a boy.

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I’m also a garden railroader which is a very big hobby in England. One of my favorite fellow hobbyists to follow was Peter Jones who’s own garden railroad was built out of his garden sheds in Wales. He passed a few years back and his death left a huge void in the US-England garden railroad connection. He wrote many articles and authored books that one can still enjoy. He had a column in Garden Railways Magazine called “scribbling on a workshop wall” that was most enjoyable. Model railroaders are not much different from old auto enthusiasts.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Happy New Year to everybody.

 

I have worked every day on the Humber except Christmas day, when I managed to force myself to have a day off.

 

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The wheels have been a long and boring process trying to get rid of all the rust pits in the rims.

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Slowly, they started to look reasonably flat.

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More filler was needed on the outside and inside of some of the rims.

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At least the pits were slowly getting less and less and not so deep.

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As a break from rubbing down I decided to make some brackets to hang the wheels up to make spraying them easier. There are 3-holes equally spaced around the rim where I think tyre clamps could be fitted.

I found that a alloy Rivnut and an M5 bolt would fix to the rim and so I cut a groove in the head of the bolt.

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(Sorry about the blurred photo). A washer was to be welded to the top of the bolt head.

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Welding the washer to the stainless M5 bolt head with the MIG welder was a bit of a nightmare as you can see from the photo above. The problem being that the washers and the bolts were dissimilar metals. Well, that's my excuse!

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As the brackets are only for holding the wheel up for painting, the aesthetics' didn't matter, they seem to be strong enough to support the wheel.

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This is the hook screwed into the alloy Rivnut.

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On the other side the Rivnut should not cause too many problems with the final coat of paint. In any case I am going to use the 3-holes to put machine screws through with washers and nuts to attempt to balance the wheel once the wheels are fitted to the car with the tyres on. The washer will hide any primer that has not got top coat on it. I can always touch up the blue paint as it will be hidden by the washer.

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I am hoping that I can take all the bits that are going to be painted blue to the Jaymic workshop for spraying later this week when they come back to work after the Christmas, New Year break. I could do with the body out of the way to make room for the jig for steam bending the top hoops.

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Any bare metal parts showing I coated with etching primer to avoid any rust forming before the parts get painted. While I have been repairing the body I have had the workshop heater on set to 15 degrees C and two dehumidifiers running constantly.

Next job to do is design and make the jig for bending the top hoops and finish making the steam generator.

 

 

 

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First off, I put all the measurements I had of the top hoops, onto a spreadsheet

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Hoping that this would help me to draw a scale drawing of the jig for steam bending the top hoops. (I still find it difficult not to refer to them as hood hoops, that we would call them in the UK!)

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With the drawing done I could concentrate on making the odds and ends needed.

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I started out with cutting the strips of metal that would join the wooden parts E to D and F to D. These strips of metal should hold the steamed wood into the curved parts as the wood is bent.

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Holes for screws to fix E to D on the first strip of metal were marked.

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The holes were drilled for the screws. Ignore the felt pen markings 'low 22 etc' as this is some spare sheet metal I had lying around that I thought would be suitable for the straps.

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Because I don't want the heads of the screws to indent into the top hoop I made a press tool, in the lathe, to recess the screws into the strip of metal.

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They will fit together with the sheet metal in between to form the recess for the screw heads.

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This is my first try with the 'press tools' on a bit of scrap. I squeezed the bits together too hard and made a bigger hole than was needed.

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Although, it did make the screw head fit nice and flush with the metal strip.

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When it came to pressing the indents in plate for real - I didn't squeeze the vice up so much and the indents formed really well.

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One end done - another three ends to indent.

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All done. I have given Robert, 'the woodwork wizard', the cutting list for the bits of wood C, D, E & F, as he has a saw and planer to make them more accurately than I could.

While I wait for the bits of wood I'll have a look to see what I have to do to get the wings good enough to spray gloss black.

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It looks as if I am going to have some fun with this front wing! Some bad repairs carried out in the past to try and sort out. A bit of thought needed here as to how I am going to tackle this mess.

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On cleaning off the etching primer on the rear of this rear wing I found that somebody has used a split brass tube to repair the edge.844.thumb.jpg.a98e3abd279fc360436a8a78b421474c.jpg

I will have to think a bit more about how to repair these wings before I start the repairs.

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The holes for the Humber badge in the bottom of the door shut were marked, centre punched and drilled.

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I started on making the bits needed for steam bending the wood top hoops.

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These are for bending the ends

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This is a pulling post for pulling the bends.

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A hole was made in the 4-inch ID galvanized pipe for the steam pipe.

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The New Year meant that companies were back to work and I was able to take the Humberette body up to the Jaymic Workshop for the body and wheels to be painted blue. I let Jane choose the shade of blue, if I had chosen the colour by myself I'm sure it would have been wrong. Jane took a pair of my socks to match the colour to - don't ask me why!

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With the body out of the way I could lay the 8' x 4' sheet of MDF on the bench I had made for the body and get on with messing about with finishing off the bits for wood bending. I welded a 1/2" pipe into the galvanized pipe making sure I ground of the zinc galvanising around where I was going to weld.

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I mounted the lower, centre, pulling post on the board and marked where the bits and pieces for the top hoops were going to fit on the jig.

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I cut out some bits of ply to make a couple of plugs for the ends. The 'half moon' bits are to have a stainless steel bar through then and hold the wooden hoop away from the bottom of the galvanised pipe while the wood is being steamed. 

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The plugs and the cap screwed together.

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The cooker, modified pressure cooker, rubber hosing  and 'glavo pipe' ready for Robert to cut the planks into splines and get them ready for steaming.

I suppose I better try and make a start on the wing repairs while I wait for the wooden splines. I think I have been trying to put it off!

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