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Newbie with 1922 Buick Model 35 Touring car


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I had to make the break return springs as one was broken and the other did not have much spring left in it. The ones I made were just a wee bit thicker in the wire I used but very close they now have very good return of the arm they are attached to.

 

 

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Brice,.

These springs are also on my make list. Did you form them with "hot" wire  or is cold forming  sufficient?

 

Did you need to replace any bearings thru the rear axle ?

 

Thanks for the photos and advice.

 

Regards

Norm

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Norm,

I used music wire spring steel (I will get the diameter of the wire and mandrel I used for you tonight when get home from work) then used a the lathe and did them cold. Here is the link that I used to figure how to make them for the most part. I turned the lathe by hand no power so that I could keep control of the wind. Also I did not make a wire holder as he shows I just used the tool holder with a longer square stock (about 100 mm long) then just kept it tight and move slow as I turned the the lathe so that the coils would stay tight to each other. The couple things that you do have to do though is 1) keep the pressure on the lathe head so the wire does not try and unwind before your finished, 2) be sure your square stock is real close to the mandrel and wire as you turn because you get near the end the last bit will try and jump off the square stock. I did come up one half coil short on the spring do to the length wire but being that the wire was slightly bigger dia it seems to have more than enough force to pull the arm back compared to the original springs. Being also that it is modern music wire spring steel and most likely of better quality  it should hold up and be a bit stronger spring. Hope that helps you.

 

 

 

 

Edited by RatFink255 (see edit history)
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Norm,

The spring wire I used is 1/8" (.125) 3 foot long. The mandrel is 3/4" (.753). I just had a steel rod laying around that fit the bill so I filed a small flat on it and then drilled taped hole for screw and washer to hold the wire in place while I turned the lathe. Use just a big enough washer to hold the wire if you use to big of one it will interfere with the first wind and you will not keep the coils tight side by side.

Brice

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got wheels back on the frame then started to put tires  on got two on then discovered that apparently when the tires were put on two were put on with white walls the other two were put on with black walls. I am going for the white walls all around so have to take two off and re do as the they mount only one way onto the wheels. I got one off just trying to figure the reinstall with out damaging the stem or tire.

 

Mark Kikta, what was the trick to getting the rim inside the tire as it is a rime that is cut and it is close to the valve stem? Did you have the rim separated or secured and locked then work the tire around? Just saw Mark Shaw's reply about using a rime tool and found some pictures showing it being used good idea. Now to find one.


 

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Did you do those tires without a rim tool.  That is a lot of work.  The rim tool is put on the rim in a different orientation depending on if the rim is being removed or installed.  Be cautious as well that improper use of a rim tool can damage a rim.     Hugh

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On 9/3/2019 at 12:39 PM, RatFink255 said:

I had to make the break return springs as one was broken and the other did not have much spring left in it. The ones I made were just a wee bit thicker in the wire I used but very close they now have very good return of the arm they are attached to.

 

 

Springs 2019-09-03_11-35-52.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised to see a Hotchkiss Drive on a car that also has a torque tube. I figured it would be one or the other. My E-49 has the rear axle mounted to the rear of the leaf spring in a "cantilever" fashion, with a lubricated bearing where the axle attaches to the end of the spring, it has no spring perch, it has a place to put oil so the axle spins freely relative to the leaf spring. All the torque goes through the torque tube. But your car has the axle mounted fast to the leaf spring, so torque is transmitted through it, as well as through the torque tube. That's weird, I'm scratching my head over here.

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:04 PM, Terry Wiegand said:

One has to keep in mind that these 4-Cylinder models were a whole 'nother animal.

 

Terry Wiegand

Way Out in Doo Dah

 

Just because they were not a six cylinder car does not make them "another animal" if you are implying that they were a bad car.   Still a good car with a chassis that a Buick truck was also made from.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)
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I think Terry was speaking about my remark about how the 4 has a torque tube and spring perches at the same time, while the 6 has a cantilever suspension and the rear axle housing has a lubricated bearing to attach to the leaf spring which has a big brass bearing at the back where the axle attaches, and an oiler.

 

I am wondering about the 4 though as well. I think it's impossible for a car to have a torque tube and Hotchkiss drive at the same time. If the rear axle housing is held fast by the torque tube, and the leaf spring has a shackle at one end and a bolt at the other, and the axle is in the middle of the spring, there will be motion of the leaf spring every time it goes over a bump, relative to the axle. The axle has to rotate relative to the spring. Actually the axle doesn't move, the spring does. If the axle and spring are held fast together by a spring perch, the axle housing needs to rotate a little over every bump in the road, which it can't do because of the torque tube, which is why Hotchkiss drive cars have a universal joint at the rear of the drive shaft, and torque tube cars don't need one.

 

Was there a brass bearing on the leaf spring/axle for where they meet, as well as some sort of oiler? It looks like you painted over everything so I can't tell.

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Larry, 

The 4-Cylinder Buicks WERE NOT BAD CARS!!  The point that I was trying to get across was that it seemed that all of the engineering advancements at the time was poured into the 6-Cylinder models.  Anyone who thinks that the Buick Fours were second rate doesn't know anything about Buick history.  The Buick Motor Company had one of the winning-est factory sponsored race teams at the time based on that 4-Cylinder engine.  Ben hit it right on the head - almost zero commonality of basic parts between the 4's and 6's.  I have a very healthy respect for the 4-Cylinder Buick after driving Sandy Rose's 1914 4-Cylinder Roadster and having the daylights scared out of me while riding in that 1915 truck of yours.

 

Terry Wiegand

Doo Dah America

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Morgan,

 

Are you talking about right here on the axial tube? There is a grease nipple that is used for greasing but I am not sure if it is brass or not. You can't see the grease nipple as covered with masking tape to keep paint off but it is under tape in second and third picture. 

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4 hours ago, RatFink255 said:

Morgan,

 

Are you talking about right here on the axial tube? There is a grease nipple that is used for greasing but I am not sure if it is brass or not. You can't see the grease nipple as covered with masking tape to keep paint off but it is under tape in second and third picture. 

 

 

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Yup that's the place. Looks like you have everything under control, that looks like a bearing, not a welded spring perch. The axle tube rotates relative to the spring, and all is well. I was pretty sure a car with a torque tube could never have a fast attachment there.

 

Mine has an oil filler cap but grease zerks were invented after my car and before your car so you have a zerk. 

 

I just hope you didn't paint the inside of the bearing or outside of the axle housing at that spot. If you did you need to remove the paint.

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Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)
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Larry,

My 1916 sales literature shows the 1916 Fours as having a removable cylinder head.  I had wondered about that also for some time and there it was in the brochure.  It's amazing what a person can learn by reading the finely printed details.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out Doo Dah Way

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Morgan,

The axial housing rotates freely as it had to when I put the rear end back to get the propeller shaft (drive shaft) to line up with the differential. when I re-greased the zirk when it got full some did ooze out the between the axial housing and the bearing housing.

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Brice, 

       Coker is good, and for 1 tube you can use them or any of the following.  I shopped between Coker, Lucas, and Universal Tire during my purchase for 5 tires, tubes, and flaps.  There was a significant savings when I compared the 3 of them.  I gave all 3 the same list of parts I needed.  Shipping made a difference too to the bottom line, so it depends on where you are located relative to their shop.  I also thought Universal had a better flap as it was specific for my rim size and not generic.  I also asked about DOT codes and all 3 offered the same date code for 3 year old tires that I was buying new.  Keep in mind that my tires are a 1 year only size.  The 1st year for Balloon tires and 22" rims were also only offered on Buick and Pierce Arrow and a few smaller known marques.  Not a lot of demand for these.  Grateful that they still make them.  I kept pretty rough "rollers" on the car and I forced myself to delay the purchase of new tires until the car was ready to hit the road. 

Coker made his mark by buying the old tire molds around the world before they were sold for scrap.       Hugh

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  • 2 months later...

Well I am still alive, it has been a while since I posted any progress. I have finally finished the wheels and got all tires facing the same way (white walls out). Have the wheels back on the the frame and off the jack stands. 

 

Started now working from the rear up to the front so now is the fuel tank cleaned up and have to repair couple pin holes in the bottom but hey should not be to bad. Do have a question though. As you can see in the pictures this it the fuel cap that was on the tank. It is not like what is shown in the parts book (Micky Mouse ears type). I figure the small hole is the tank vent, but what would go int the bigger hole I can't see it just being open like that for dirt and other contaminates to get in the tank. Skimmed through the parts book and big master book but could not find on that look similar. 

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Brice I have been also seeking a Micky Mouse cap  as well,  my cars tank is cap less , it's been a search to find something that fits. It may be a Buick one off size designed by the guy who also did the the radiator cap !   

 

Regards

Norm

 

 

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