maok

Occasional rattle noise from bell housing area.

Recommended Posts

On the weekend while driving a bride to her big moment, a fairly loud rattle sound, and a vibration via the clutch pedal, occurred all of a sudden. The sound and vibration discontinued when slowing down to a stop and after driving off at 25mph and less. The sound was just like having a playing card attached to the folks of a child's bicycle rattling on the spokes, but more metallic sounding. This time and previously the sound had suddenly occurred only at high constant speed, now, when I say high speed, I mean sound breaking speed of 30mph...? It does seem that it is occurring with centrifugal forces at play, the rattle sound is like from something making contact with a turning part.

 

This has happened a couple of times before but without the vibration and not as loud. I had assumed previously that it was my wire pointer touching the fan belt or fan blade that I had attached to a radiator support bolt to indicate TDC on the pulley. Examining the wire, fan belt and blade showed no sign of contact previously.

 

Because I had felt the vibration via the clutch pedal this time, I opened up the inspection plate of the gearbox for the clutch assembly area thinking it maybe the thrust/throwout bearing, or the return spring had come loose and was making contact with input spline  or the clutch assembly. But no such luck, spring is in place doing its job. Having said that, the sound was of more heavier metal sounding rattle. All the parts on the clutch assembly seem to be intact and in place.

 

One other possibility is that I did replace the hose that supplies the grease for the thrust bearing with a fitting attached to a hose  and a clamp and that the clamp screw was making contacting to the thrust bearing. I may take the hose off for a while to see if the rattle sound does not happen again.

 

Anyone else have ideas of what it could be or have experienced a similar problem?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oops, that would be useful.

'28 Chrysler series 62

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only clutch rattle I have had was when the spring holding the thrust bearing to the fork broke. The bearing rattled against the clutch diaphragm fingers. when I took it out, there were fillings everywhere, the fingers were well worn through and it was a mess. It didn't rattle at low speeds, but did if I sped past 30 mph in 4th. This was a more modern vehicle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks spinney, unfortunately, or more so fortunately, there is no evidence of damage on the thrust bearing or on the 3 clutch fingers/arms.

 

I also checked the flywheel gear to see if there was any sign of the starter gear was making contact with the edge of the flywheel gear. No obvious damage except the typical starter pinion gear damage at various places on the flywheel gear.

It really did sound like something making contact with a turning gear like the flywheel gear or the spline of the input shaft of the gearbox, just like a playing card on the spokes of a bicycle. And it only has happened at constant higher speed, as if the centrifugal forces has suddenly moved something out to the edge of the moving part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check your output side of the gearbox, to see if anything has come loose, and also your propshaft  and UJ's,

If anything there is worn or loose the vibration may mislead you into thinking its the clutch end.

Viv.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks viv, I did do a quick check of the emergency brake and the tail/propshaft for any obvious signs. I do a 6 monthly dismantle and clean of the emergency brake, its possible that something is not quite right there from the previous clean.

 

The emergency brake and the propshaft joints will get a detailed look today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, after a comprehensive check of all turning parts from the flywheel to the propshaft, including inside the clutch inspection cover, there are no obvious signs of contact made with a turning part. Could it be inside the gearbox?

 

Any ideas or suggestions to look at?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you assured that the spring on the throwout bearing is in place on both ends (as someone suggested)?

 

How about jacking up the rear wheels and running the engine in neutral, to rule out u-joints and further back?  Then in top gear.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Have you assured that the spring on the throwout bearing is in place on both ends (as someone suggested)?

 

How about jacking up the rear wheels and running the engine in neutral, to rule out u-joints and further back?  Then in top gear.....

 

Yes, checked out the thrust/throwout bearing spring, its in place as it should be and worked as expected.

 

I pulled apart all four wheels to inspect bearings,  checked brake assembly (four wheel brake bands) all round.

Hand/emergency brake was checked as well.

 

Checked fan and belt again, no sign of damage there.

 

Visually checked both u-joint (Ball and Trunnion) on the propshaft but did not pull them apart, but I can't see how anything there would make a constant rattle sound all of a sudden at speed. 

 

I pulled the starter out and dis-assemble it to check the bendix and pinion gear,  the spring is intact and its bolts are tight. No signs  of damage there.

 

Good idea to have the rear wheels off the ground and see if the rattle occurs stationery at high engine speed with rear wheels turning to replicate the rattle noise. The problem is that it does not happen all the time. The previous time it occurred would have been at least 6 months ago, if not longer.

 

I'm starting to lose some hair....:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a corker, Moe.  Good luck finding it!  I can't afford to lose any more hair, hope you're in better shape :-)

 

Check your shock links/arms, and shake your exhaust components....  Not hearing the noise, we're just throwing out WAG ideas....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Grimy said:

That's a corker, Moe.  Good luck finding it!  I can't afford to lose any more hair, hope you're in better shape ?

 

Check your shock links/arms, and shake your exhaust components....  Not hearing the noise, we're just throwing out WAG ideas....

 

Heaps of hair on my back but running out fast from my head....?

 

Definitely can't be the shocks, don't have any...:(

 

Thanks for the ideas Grimy. No idea is stupid because I have run out of ideas.

 

The rattle and vibration sound was a very fast rattle/vibration hence why I believe its something making contact with some gear of sort ie. flywheel gear or spline of the input shaft of the gearbox. I can't remember if the rattle/vibration went away when I pushed the clutch pedal in.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bendix spring  on starter motor touching starter gear , spring streached is possible as you are on 12 volt , end play on armature or bushings , will sound as a clatter or rattle , broken retainer spring on bendix gear , again 12 volt does not do these starters any good  Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, robert b said:

Bendix spring  on starter motor touching starter gear , spring streached is possible as you are on 12 volt , end play on armature or bushings , will sound as a clatter or rattle , broken retainer spring on bendix gear , again 12 volt does not do these starters any good  Bob

Unfortunately (or fortunately) Bob, there was no evidence of metal filings inside the bottom flywheel cover or any damage to the flywheel gear or starter gear. But it did sound and felt like something making contact with the flywheel gear.

 

The car is all back together for a wedding on Saturday. This mystery may not be solved until I do the engine swap at Christmas break or it happens again and does some real damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you get the chance, try driving the car without the floor boards in place, with a good hearing passenger.  Sometimes you can isolate the noise to a specific area. Rob

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Vintageben said:

How is the new engine coming along?

 

No news yet, but I hope to have it soon('ish)......?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’ll be great I still haven’t progressed far with mine, work keeps getting in the way however I did manage to remove all the head studs the other day and it only took about an hour better still no breakages only a few more items to remove and the big clean up and then the rebuilding process can start . I may have it running by Christmas 2019?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a rattle in my 1930 Chrysler, only at certain speeds. My friend , a retired mechanic, and I couldn't find it. On day I noticed the water pump pulley had a slight wobble . The bore in the pulley was egged out a little. Had it bored and bushed and the noise went away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this noise rattle (was much louder and heavy sound) has reared its ugly head again, this time in a big way, had to be towed home. Luckily it happened after the wedding.

 

It definitely sounded and felt like it was from the bell housing area, but after pulling the gear box out, there is no sign of any damage or obvious problem.

Previously the rattle would slowly go away when I disengaged the clutch and slowed the car down. This time when I pulled over the rattle was still there while stationary. Turned the engine off and started it up, the rattle seemed like it was getting worse and even had trouble keeping idle.

I dropped the flywheel inspection cover and the oil pan thinking I may have a very loose conrod big end, again no sign of any issue.

 

Any ideas?

IMAG1041.thumb.jpg.75f5a2a83cdb83d0b91eed9a26f8e9ff.jpgIMAG1042.thumb.jpg.b691587b4d82498668273a880a2cb568.jpg

IMAG1044.thumb.jpg.1184b7124cedcc0fa8f442e397df4d86.jpgIMAG1043.thumb.jpg.d0f42bf1c62cd5c933eef572f7f50dda.jpg

IMAG1045.thumb.jpg.097bd0b65065e496a0771f0a32039bd4.jpgIMAG1046.thumb.jpg.065b346682c887a2158a84b5abdaff1c.jpg

IMAG1039.thumb.jpg.7ccbf0d7b799304e0d1dad31c86b5e8c.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a broken crankshaft ? Perhaps while you have the pan off, remove each bearing cap and check if it has broken in the middle of a journal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Viv,  its unlikely but its got me buggered. I only have a few weddings remaining to do this year (I only have 7 days for the next wedding) before I do the engine swap for the new one that is at the machinist.

 

The engine turns freely by hand with no noise or rattle, its very smooth. All the main caps and conrod nuts seem secure and tight, there is some play  in the big end caps but that is expected, its a very tired engine. The oil pump is secure and not loose in any way.

The amount of noise that happened, there really should be metal filings or obvious visual damage somewhere. The clutch all looks good, the thrust (throw out) bearing moves smoothly when the pedal is pushed, and can be moved by hand, the return spring works as it should. I am considering unbolting the clutch assembly but everything looks fine. The pivot fingers are all good, still spring loaded with no obvious damage.

I am considering bolting the oil pan back on and starting and running the engine  with the gearbox off to hopefully see something odd.

 

Edited by maok (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi maok,

What's the thrust  bearing like? spinning freely? looking at the inside of the bell housing it seems a fair amount of grease is getting out and that the bearing might be running dry, just a thought.

 

Cheers mate. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Sasha39 said:

Hi maok,

What's the thrust  bearing like? spinning freely? looking at the inside of the bell housing it seems a fair amount of grease is getting out and that the bearing might be running dry, just a thought.

 

Cheers mate. 

 

Hey mate, it was the first thing I checked when I removed the gearbox, and looks to be fine, unfortunately....lol 

I initial thought that the face of it was damaged and was catching on the fingers. But that doesn't explain why the rattle would be heard and felt when the clutch was engaged.

 

I also checked the inlet and exhaust valves and their springs this morning, they all looked to be intact, moving freely and not broken....DOH!!!

 

Edited by maok
additional info (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of bearing is the clutch release bearing? Is it possible it has a broken ball or something?

 

What is the crankshaft end float? If you push it forward with the clutch, what could be contacting something and creating a rattle?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...