Carter BB-1 experience wanted

[stakeside]

When starting my engine with the BB-1 carb I am getting excessive gas running out of the drain. I checked the float adjustment for proper setting and problem continues.

What is the starting procedure? Is it the same as the Stewart carb? Is the throttle lever set to full throttle ?  

[PFitz]

2 hours ago, stakeside said:

When starting my engine with the BB-1 carb I am getting excessive gas running out of the drain. I checked the float adjustment for proper setting and problem continues.

What is the starting procedure? Is it the same as the Stewart carb? Is the throttle lever set to full throttle ?  

 

Flooding like that (with the correct float level) is usually a sign that you may be over choking the engine once it fires.

 

Crack the throttle open about 1/4 of the way. As soon as the engine fires push the choke in most of the way until the engine seems like it's going to stall. Then ease out the choke until it just starts to run smoother - no more than that.   Remember that position by how many fingers you can fit between the choke knob and the dash board.  As the engine warms up the rpms will climb. Keep slowly moving the choke in so that the engine is just above the point where it starts to run rough and stall. 

 

Even if it seems to be running ok, using excessive amounts of choke washes oil off the rings and cylinder walls.

 

Better to use a bit too-little choke than use too much and risk flooding the engine and spilling gas under the car.

 

Paul

[alsfarms]

Paul,  Nice right-up on a starting procedure.  Seems that every engine has its own method that tends to work.  Then it depends on temperature, wear status, fuels, elevation, and etc.

Al

[PFitz]

11 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Paul,  Nice right-up on a starting procedure.  Seems that every engine has its own method that tends to work.  Then it depends on temperature, wear status, fuels, elevation, and etc.

Al

 Thanks, Al.

 

I don't know if it's true, but I'm heard that dealerships had so many customer manual choke related problems that, that was the reason for switching to automatic chokes.

 

A friend related one. He worked as a mechanic and then bodyshop man in a Long Island dealership back in the 50's and 60's.

 

The Dealership owner gave his wife a new car. Wasn't long before she was having it stall out and be tough to restart. They'd bring the car into the service bays, check it over and find nothing wrong. This went on for a while until the frustrated owner threaten to fire all the mechanics if they couldn't solve the problem. The Service Manager finally intervened and did something no one had tried. He made an appointment for the  owner's wife to take him for a test drive.

 

She got in behind the wheel, put the key in the ignition, pulled the choke handle all the way out,........

 

..........and hung her handbag on it.

 

Paul 

[alsfarms]

What are the differences between a BB-1 that is built to work with a fuel pump and one that is built to run on gravity?  Is it easy to convert a later carb. that should have a fuel pump to run on a gravity system?

Al

[PFitz]

54 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

tWhat are the differences between a BB-1 that is built to work with a fuel pump and one that is built to run on gravity?  Is it easy to convert a later carb. that should have a fuel pump to run on a gravity system?

Al

 The size of the opening in the seat of the float needle. It's all about the hydraulics of controlling fuel flow volume at different fluid pressures.

 

Gravity feed has very low pressure - almost not measurable except with special low pressure gauges. So it relies on volume through a larger float needle seat opening to keep the fuel bowl full under all operating conditions.

 

With a fuel pump giving  higher pressure it gets fuel volume with the increased flow as a result of that higher pressure. Since the float needle has to work against pump pressure with the same sized float,  it uses a smaller needle seat opening to reduce the surface area of the float needle tip that is exposed to fuel pressure so as not to have fuel pressure exert too much force on the face of the float needle which would be transferred  to the float. 

 

With most updraft carburetors it's not critical because the flow rate of the needle seats usually is greater then the engine demand for fuel and you can adjust the float level to compensate for minor differences in fuel pressure. The problem comes when there is too much difference, such as using a too-high pressure electric fuel pump on a gravity fuel system.   

 

Paul. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history)

[carbking]

Stromberg used to offer different orifice size fuel valve seats in the 'teens, based on the "fuel head", or how far the carburetor fuel inlet was below the fuel source FOR THE SAME CARBURETOR.

 

On a typical S.A.E. size 2 or size 3 brass carb; Stromberg would generally recommend a 0.140 orifice for an 8 inch fuel head, and a 0.111 orifice for a 14 inch fuel head.

 

"Listening" (with books, as they have all departed us) to the original engineers tends to make many things in life work better.

 

Jon.

[stakeside]

On 4/13/2019 at 9:57 AM, alsfarms said:

What are the differences between a BB-1 that is built to work with a fuel pump and one that is built to run on gravity?  Is it easy to convert a later carb. that should have a fuel pump to run on a gravity system?

Al

 

Believe the only difference is the size of the fuel valve orifice as quoted in the previous reference by Jon the carb king. Check drill size chart he also referenced. To check your valve you should be able to pass a # 32 drill with 0,116” dia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsfarms]

Hello Stakeside,

How does the DH6 relate to the other Dodge Bros. offerings?  Is the Victory the large Dodge product?  Your handle and avatar make me think, do you have a Dodge product truck?  Does the BB-1 run your DH6 like it should be run, at all RPM's?

Al

[carbking]

On 4/13/2019 at 11:57 AM, alsfarms said:

What are the differences between a BB-1 that is built to work with a fuel pump and one that is built to run on gravity?  Is it easy to convert a later carb. that should have a fuel pump to run on a gravity system?

Al

 

Maybe a bit of clarification is necessary here.

 

The universal BB-1's were designed to be used either with pressure or with gravity-feed, depending on the fuel orifice. And they were universally calibrated, with the adjustable main jet for tweaking the adjustment.

 

HOWEVER:

 

Carbs that were designed for use on a SPECIFIC application will not have the same jetting as the universals. So just buying a carb that was designed for a fuel pump, and then changing the fuel orifice is absolutely no guarantee that the carb will be calibrated for the one's specific application. The table I published in the article listed ALL of the applications for which Carter recommended the switch. Other than these carbs on these applications, the user becomes his/her own engineer. And buying a carb with no tag is worse than buying a pig in a poke. I need to dig up the quotation about purchases from economist John Ruskin and post it again.

 

Jon. 

 

[stakeside]

7 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Stakeside,

How does the DH6 relate to the other Dodge Bros. offerings?  Is the Victory the large Dodge product?  Your handle and avatar make me think, do you have a Dodge product truck?  Does the BB-1 run your DH6 like it should be run, at all RPM's?

Al

The DA-6 is a 6 cylinder, and the Victory 6 and Standard 6 are similar. They all have seven main bearings. Also the DA-6 in my truck is similar to the DA-6 in cars.

I have a Dodge Brothers 3/4 ton stakebed and I enjoy meeting other owners. The engine is being rebuilt so I do not have any information of the BB-1 in my truck.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by stakeside
E (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Here is an example a marine BB-1 with the drain attached.

 

 

[alsfarms]

Thanks for the pictures both of your truck and of the marine application of a BB-1 carb.   I am going to purchase one of the sonic cleaners  as found on EBAY and clean my carb. before taking it a part.  I understand that the chances for damaging internal parts is greatly reduced by using a sonic cleaner first.  Have you used one of those cleaners?

Al

[stakeside]

2 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Thanks for the pictures both of your truck and of the marine application of a BB-1 carb.   I am going to purchase one of the sonic cleaners  as found on EBAY and clean my carb. before taking it a part.  I understand that the chances for damaging internal parts is greatly reduced by using a sonic cleaner first.  Have you used one of those cleaners?

Al

Never used one.

[Spinneyhill]

Ultrasonic cleaners are standard fare for clock makers and optometrists. They are very good. In the days of tubular nib drawing pens, they were the best way to clean dried ink out of the tube.

 

There are home made recipes for the fluid but I think the best is one made for the job.

[Graham Man]

I use the sonic cleaners with my BB1 carburetors and all my other carburetors.  I clean them before disassembly and after disassembly in the sonic cleaner.  I use hot water (mine is heated) and simple green cleaner for the grease (4 water  to 1 cleaner) about an hour.  I use carb cleaner right after taking the parts out of the water, to reduce any corrosion issues (dries faster).  I just spray them down on clean paper towel.  Try to get one large enough (sonic cleaner) to submerge the entire carburetor.   It is the best carburetor cleaning tool I have ever used, you would have to force me to not use one, then I would get my cleaner and do it again.

 

Thinking about it I have never cleaned a BB1 twice.   Not going into the house with gas smelling hands....priceless.

 

NEVER put your fingers in the water when it is running!!!!  I pushed down a float one time, I did not feel anything.  The next day it felt just like I hit my finger with a hammer, took about 4 days to get back to normal.

 

PS I never touch the gas pedal starting my BB1s, only the choke.  Pull the choke out and crank till it starts, push in the choke till it idles smoothly.  (Great advice from Jon) 

[alsfarms]

Who has a good coating method for the BB-1 all cast iron carb and also the later die cast bottom BB-1 carb.?

Al

[PFitz]

PPG's  DP40 epoxy primer, with catalyzed single stage (DAR9000) black over that holds up very well to gasoline, including ethanol gas. .

 

Be careful bead blasting old diecast potmetal.  The media impact friction will raise blisters on the potmetal surface.,

 

Paul

[alsfarms]

Does the PPG product hold the same luster after time and with the possibility of fuel leaking?  Also, I was wondering what would happen if you accidentily put a finger or hand in a Sonic cleaner while in operation.  Now I have a little idea of what the sensation is.  Do the Sonic cleaners also remove paint? or just loose paint?

Al

[Spinneyhill]

Just loose paint. Here is a paragraph from Wikipedia:

"

Process characteristics

Ultrasonic cleaning uses cavitation bubbles induced by high frequency pressure (sound) waves to agitate a liquid. The agitation produces high forces on contaminants adhering to substrates like metals, plastics, glass, rubber, and ceramics. This action also penetrates blind holes, cracks, and recesses. The intention is to thoroughly remove all traces of contamination tightly adhering or embedded onto solid surfaces. Water or solvents can be used, depending on the type of contamination and the workpiece. Contaminants can include dust, dirt, oil, pigments, rust, grease, algae, fungus, bacteria, lime scale, polishing compounds, flux agents, fingerprints, soot wax and mold release agents, biological soil like blood, and so on. Ultrasonic cleaning can be used for a wide range of workpiece shapes, sizes and materials, and may not require the part to be disassembled prior to cleaning.^[5]

Objects must not be allowed to rest on the bottom of the device during the cleaning process, because that will prevent cavitation from taking place on the part of the object not in contact with solvent.^[6] "

Edited April 21, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[PFitz]

59 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Does the PPG product hold the same luster after time and with the possibility of fuel leaking?  Also, I was wondering what would happen if you accidentily put a finger or hand in a Sonic cleaner while in operation.  Now I have a little idea of what the sensation is.  Do the Sonic cleaners also remove paint? or just loose paint?

Al

If allowed to fully cure 24 hours the PPG holds up to some fuel contact if it's wiped off in a few hours, but long-term constant contact will dull it a bit.

 

The instructions for my ultra sonic cleaner say to not put fingers in when it's running. I'm not the type to touch a stove after being told it's hot, so I make sure not to touch the water when the cleaner is running. Plus it has a heater and the water gets too hot to touch even after it's shut off. . Someone in another post mentioned he did touch the water and his finger hurt for a few days.

 

Paul.

[trini]

Try broadstreetltd@msn.com. He has lots of parts. The air mixture comes with the repair kit. The fuel adjustment at the lower end of the bowl I bought new from broadstreet. I tried adjusting the air mixture. It made difference in idling so I used the adjuster at the lower end of the carb and I am happy with that. I cleaned the carb thoroughly and replaced all the balls in the kit. A few could not be removed but I made sure they were clean and rattling. The new mounting gasket has 4 notches inside to line up the port for the air screw. There is no way that gasket can be placed incorrectly. Yet by turning that screw in or out , idle made no differentce. I will live with that. I am using B B 1  as shown here.  

[alsfarms]

Hello Trini,

Does your carb. still have its ID brass tag?

Al