ericmac

Cooper Duesenberg at auction

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2 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

The short one I tried  may have had the freewheeling "upgraded". I knew the shifter was from a Mustang as soon as I got in.

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I like the Duesenberg II as far as homage or replica cars go.  The only give away is the 18 vs 19 wheels which most people can't pick up on.  Well,  that and the mustang shifter :).  

 

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I asked Mr. Mace if I could sit in the car. He said OK and I slid in. That is when I saw the shifter, my only clue, as a casual hobbyist, standing there in the garage. The SWB helped pull in off.

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Bernie,

 

I thought Saint would work well with your birth given name.........................

 

after all, you are a holey man and your bark is bigger then your bite!

 

lol

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Think I'll even leave the Whitewalls on it!

 

 

 

 

between the whitewalls and the red undercarriage, something has to give, if I want to make it my own.

 

switching it to blackwalls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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21 hours ago, cahartley said:

 

I can't argue with that.

On the other hand if a car is never seen does it matter?....... :(

I doubt if E.L.Cord and Fred Duesenberg had in mind lugging these  cars on trailer.

Once while at Auburn,maybe 25 years ago a Derham (J164)was driven in from

Connecticut and the owner was asked WHY.His reply was "It's to heavy to

carry". I complimented him on the fast response.This car then was unrestored

and reeked of mothballs.I think I might have pictures of it. 

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Bob,  one of my first car memories is Massachusetts to the Reunion in a 812 Cord,  would have been about 1968.  My dad always talks about the first time he saw a tractor trailer pull in to a show in the early 70s.  It was J.B. Nethrecutt.

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On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:06 AM, edinmass said:

 

 

Hi Bob! I had J-357 out to breakfast last Saturday, and have a V-16 out for coffee now. Come on down and we will take a bunch of cars for a spin! Your choice! Ed Minnie

 

AJ is a good friend......maybe I shouldn’t say that.......

Ed,I sent a couple of pictures years ago to AJ.I THINK they involved something to do with an intake manifold

on J292?,an SJ.

J357 was owned by Melvin Clemens when Jack Irwin and I put a clutch in it in 1951 or 52. Melvin was a DRIVER

and he thought nothing of running the tachometer off the scale.J396 was a scourge on the roads back then.

It had a Packard roadster body installed after the sedan (Derham?) was wrecked by a street car in NYC.(1936)?

Harry VanIderstine told me the frame damage was still evident when it was refinished.Engine J396 was damaged

by a rod coming thru the block years later and the can has had two other engines since then and I don't know the

"J"numbers but J202 MIGHT be one of them.Engine J396 was restored and it was in a pieced together "torpedo

phaeton"the last time I saw it.I keep no track of what's going on with these cars any more but have memories of

personal experiences with them that few living today can remember.

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1 hour ago, Bob Roller said:

Ed,I sent a couple of pictures years ago to AJ.I THINK they involved something to do with an intake manifold

on J292?,an SJ.

 

You have a great memory Bob.  J292 (pictured below when it was in Argentina) was sold new in Paris with a Lebaron swept panel dual cowl body.  It was brought to Argentina where the engine blew and a replacement was ordered from the factory.  The engine was SJ and supposedly the backup to the Mormon Meteor.   It has a funky intake setup as you mentioned.   Ed Jurist sold it to Ted Billing's in the 1960s.   I have pictures of it when it came off the trailer which I attached one of below.

 

In retrospect,  Ted should have restored it to its race configuration.   It had genuine race history in Argentina.

 

 

J292-1965.jpg

Duesenberg-In-S.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, mercer09 said:

your bark is bigger then your bite!

 

My bark is just on the outside. Inside I am all xylem and phloem.

 

With this interest in Duesenberg cars and my effort to reduce my "stuff" maybe will offer up my 1964 edition of Duesenberg/ The Mightiest American by Elbert for $75. It is THE book on these cars, nice condition without a dust jacket. The best reading.

Bernie

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2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

You have a great memory Bob.  J292 (pictured below when it was in Argentina) was sold new in Paris with a Lebaron swept panel dual cowl body.  It was brought to Argentina where the engine blew and a replacement was ordered from the factory.  The engine was SJ and supposedly the backup to the Mormon Meteor.   It has a funky intake setup as you mentioned.   Ed Jurist sold it to Ted Billing's in the 1960s.   I have pictures of it when it came off the trailer which I attached one of below.

 

In retrospect,  Ted should have restored it to its race configuration.   It had genuine race history in Argentina.

 

 

J292-1965.jpg

Duesenberg-In-S.jpg

 

 

 

I hope the roadster/ speedster body got saved.  Even mounted on a Packard or Cadillac chassis it would make a very nice car. The lines are great.

 

Greg in Canada

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2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

You have a great memory Bob.  J292 (pictured below when it was in Argentina) was sold new in Paris with a Lebaron swept panel dual cowl body.  It was brought to Argentina where the engine blew and a replacement was ordered from the factory.  The engine was SJ and supposedly the backup to the Mormon Meteor.   It has a funky intake setup as you mentioned.   Ed Jurist sold it to Ted Billing's in the 1960s.   I have pictures of it when it came off the trailer which I attached one of below.

 

In retrospect,  Ted should have restored it to its race configuration.   It had genuine race history in Argentina.

 

 

J292-1965.jpg

Duesenberg-In-S.jpg

 

 

I knew the restored car when I was a kid, wearing a black and gold swept-panel dual-cowl body that was re-created in the mid-80s. Owned by the late Sey Rosenblatt, I believe. 

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25 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I knew the restored car when I was a kid, wearing a black and gold swept-panel dual-cowl body that was re-created in the mid-80s. Owned by the late Sey Rosenblatt, I believe. 

Matt, the body from the back of the front doors forward was original. The tail had been cut off fir racing as shown in the two pictures. Repairs to the body were done in the 1960s and I have pictures of the work.

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2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

My bark is just on the outside. Inside I am all xylem and phloem.

 

With this interest in Duesenberg cars and my effort to reduce my "stuff" maybe will offer up my 1964 edition of Duesenberg/ The Mightiest American by Elbert for $75. It is THE book on these cars, nice condition without a dust jacket. The best reading.

Bernie

Bernie, with all due respect, Fred Roe’s book “Persuit of Perfection” is generally considered the Model J bible.  Fred was a wonderful man and a great car historian.  However, everyone should also own Elbert’s book too.

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8 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

You could drive it out here and strap down your free Hudson hood.:lol::lol::lol:

That would be a good first road trip for it wouldn't it?  Do I have to buy the clothesline and packing blankets or are you going to provide them if I let you take her for a spin around the block? Do you think strapped to the roof?  Easier to tie down or strapped on the decklid will work better? 

If all else fails, We could weld a trailer hitch on it and I could tow it home on one of those small Uhaul open deck trailers.   That would look pretty classic headed down the interstate at 70 MPH.  I'll have to let Keiser know in advance so he can be there for the photos,  though I'm pretty sure he would smell it all going down and be there anyways. ;)

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No I'll just leave the family at home and come out solo.  That would be a real vacation.  Especially if I had a few mil in the back pocket.  We could have alot of fun.  Maybe cruise over and get that 34  Hudson so we can make it look right while we are at it.  Probably better buy it before we get there though.  Won't be able to pull the poor farmer routine if they see us pull up in that Duessy. 

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Intetesting stats on collectibles as an investment, which makes me wonder a bit more about the data source for the 288% appreciation.  Most likely value guides, but again, the data source for all categories would need more context, I think.  Air cooled Porsches come  to mind and while not rare, perhaps enough sales to move the needle a bit, if the auction results are part of the data set.  It would be interesting to see what other vehicles make up that number.

 

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48 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

if the auction results are part of the data set.  It would be interesting to see what other vehicles make up that number.

 

???

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On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 2:26 PM, JWLawrence said:

The Clark Gable Dusenberg was at the Blackhawk museum for many years. It had been touched by Bowman & Schwartz. Beautiful automobile. JWL

I think the real Gable Duesenberg was offered a while back for 10 million and 7 was offered and refused.Al Ferrera was here in Huntington WV at a

national car show but brought no car(s).He told me he bought that car from D.Cameron Peck for $2500.I asked about the paint scheme and he said

it was his idea and the original was what he called "coffee with cream" and looked like hell.This was in 1973 when I had this conversation.First prize

went to a beautiful 1934 Packard 12 with a LeBaron phaeton body.

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3 hours ago, alsancle said:

Bernie, with all due respect, Fred Roe’s book “Persuit of Perfection” is generally considered the Model J bible.  Fred was a wonderful man and a great car historian.  However, everyone should also own Elbert’s book too.

In the mid 1980.s I told Fred Roe about a man who bought a Duesenberg Limo and rebodied it with a Lincoln roadster

body and drove it like that.Fred contacted the man who living in Florida and he furnished Fred with pictures of the car

with the Rollston limo body and the Lincoln body. Fred said until I uncovered this man there were no known pictures of the

limo.I THINK it may have been J402 but don't take that as firm fact.I had a 1935 Packard convertible coupe with rumble seat

he tried to buy but I didn't want it parted out to get the body for his Duesenberg..

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I'm really enjoying this Duesenberg information chat. It was well over 35 years ago that Dad and I had the pleasure of sitting at an AACA Annual Awards dinner table with Al Ferrera and his wife, what a great guy. The McGowan brothers always brought a Duesenberg to the Ridgefield Meet, my favorite was J-444, with blackwalls. They had a very nice unrestored close coupled 4 passenger sedan, I wonder if it was the same car I saw restored in a Pebble Beach video? Bob 

 

 

Edited by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

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Bob, would that have been the green sedan that could be seen occasionally in use along CT shoreline in the 80s, early 90s?  Regular at Southbury, etc.  In that time frame.  Want to say it was a Berline style sedan.    

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10 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I'm really enjoying this Duesenberg information chat. It was well over 35 years ago that Dad and I had the pleasure of sitting at an AACA Annual Awards dinner table with Al Ferrera and his wife, what a great guy. The McGowan brothers always brought a Duesenberg to the Ridgefield Meet, my favorite was J-444, with blackwalls. They had a very nice unrestored close coupled 4 passenger sedan, I wonder if it was the sane car I saw restored in a Pebble Beach video? Bob 

.It WAS the McGowan brothers.The sedan was a Derham and I THINK was new sold to the Egyptian embassy in Paris. It had differently styled rear fenders

and was black.It was original,unrestored and I may have a picture if it.I did sit in the back seat and took a picture looking forward over the hood. It had a replacement

instrument in the dash and it may have been the altimeter.It had Marchal head lights which is not surprising.

I saw it again,later and it had been restored and was painted a deep maroon or burgundy and I THINK the owner's last name was Vick and he was from Texas.

The McGowan brothers had another "J" along with the sedan. It was a fire survivor and was rebodied with a Derham roadster body styled like J199.I think one

of the brothers told me it was really for a Lincoln  It was carrying engine J160 and was painted green.

I do have the Ray Wolfe notes on these cars.Ray was the one.or so I've been told that started the "J"engine number ID system.I had a lot of my info published

in the ACD Newsletter back when it was more like a magazine in the early 1990's.

I am now 82 and I am going back over 65 years to dredge this informantion up so if someone has a better slant it won't make me mad at all.

 

 

 

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Art Brummer's Duesenberg,the one I am familiar with was,I think J561 a fine Rollston sedan also called

the "6 fender car" by some.It was mostly original except for the installation of a Packard transmission

for easier shifting and an overall better unit.It was 1986 and me and my wife and two young sons were

walking into Eckhart Park and Art pulled up beside of us.The car was running so quietly that I saw it

before any of us heard it. It may still be owned by a family in the South but I won't give the name unless

they tell me I can. They got it after ownership by Dick Gold from Minnesota,now deceased. I hope this

helps.

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