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Cooper Duesenberg at auction


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29 minutes ago, alsancle said:

  If we stick with North America there are only a 1/2 a dozen known guys that can float in that space (above 10,000,000) and they are all getting older.

 

I'd agree with that statement, with two comments.  First, that's CAR guys you're talking about, correct?  There are a lot of non-car guys who might just want to own it for bragging rights.  Second, the "getting older" is a very genuine statement.  Even 10 years ago, there probably would have been even more interest in the car, but now a lot of the "older" collectors are realizing it's time to get rid of stuff before they move on to the next level......

 

I think all those factors will determine final hammer price, and it's a crap shoot as to where it will end up...

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25 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Hey Bob,

 

Welcome to the forum!   I hope you hang around and participate as you have some great history and stories about the cars,  especially Duesenberg.    I do know some pretty wealthy guys that drive the cr*p out of the very expensive stuff.   I also know some guys that are not so wealthy that never take their cars out!   So I think there is a full range.

 

A.J

A.J.

Thank you for the welcome.If I can help I will be glad to.Duesenberg cars and Long Range Muzzle Loading Rifles are my main

hobby interests.

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2 hours ago, Bob Roller said:

The Whitell aluminum top Murphy bodied coupe.Went to a German industrialist for over 10 million$.Must be nice to write a check and have

the bank bounce instead of the check..

 

There's that old saying: if you owe the bank $100,000, you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, the BANK has a problem.

 

There are A LOT more than 10 guys who can write a $20 million check for a Duesenberg in this country without stuttering. I think I'm sitting in a room with at least two of them at this very moment...

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After all the commentary by everyone, "experts" ( most self proclaimed and the real deal who have less egos attached) as well as the rest of us , I hope when the car does sell the focus is not so much on what price it brings but where it eventually finds a home and that the new owner takes the car out and shares it with people who would really love and appreciate to see it in person and not because it brought $uch a huge amount of ca$h. This a is a great site for people to express themselves and share their opinion, but some individuals have to comment on everything no matter what it may be on .

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

There's that old saying: if you owe the bank $100,000, you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, the BANK has a problem.

 

There are A LOT more than 10 guys who can write a $20 million check for a Duesenberg in this country without stuttering. I think I'm sitting in a room with at least two of them at this very moment...

 

The bank statement is true.   There are probably 5k guys in the country that can write a 10 million dollar check and not think too hard about it.   But would you agree that 95% of the time big dollar cars are bought by known quantities?  Guys that have been around for at least a little while.  Very rarely does somebody come out of no where and grab something very very expensive.   Most of the time you don't have that kind of money because you are an idiot.  

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5 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

You are funny Curt.  Obviously I love the car, but I'm torn on where the price will go.   If we stick with North America there are only a 1/2 a dozen known guys that can float in that space (above 10,000,000) and they are all getting older. 

 

According to FORBES  on March 5th, 2016, "There are 540 billionaires in the United States, with a combined net worth of $2.399 trillion, according to our 2016 list of the world's richest people.with a combined net worth of $2.399 trillion" so I don't think there's any shortage of people who CAN'T afford it....... :P

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5 minutes ago, cahartley said:

 

According to FORBES  on March 5th, 2016, "There are 540 billionaires in the United States, with a combined net worth of $2.399 trillion, according to our 2016 list of the world's richest people.with a combined net worth of $2.399 trillion" so I don't think there's any shortage of people who CAN'T afford it....... :P

 

I've had the opportunity to talk with non-car guys that all have net worth numbers north of 100 million and a lot more in some cases.   Every one of them thinks the idea of spending even 100k on a "collectible" car is insane.    I'm going to go back to my point that the car will go to a known quantity in the hobby, somebody who already has cars.   There is very little chance of a "newbie"  just jumping in at 10 million.

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've had the opportunity to talk with non-car guys that all have net worth numbers north of 100 million and a lot more in some cases.   Every one of them thinks the idea of spending even 100k on a "collectible" car is insane.    I'm going to go back to my point that the car will go to a known quantity in the hobby, somebody who already has cars.   There is very little chance of a "newbie"  just jumping in at 10 million.

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  • interesting, considering collectible cars have beat out most other investments in the past 10 years. Safe to say then, rich people dont understand cars.............  100k today isnt all that much. Heck, a nice model A is worth 30-40k

 

 

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It's a remarkable car. And unfortunately only for the 1%. Does it really matter what it sells for ? We all know without a powerball win we won't be bidding.

   It is nice to dream once and a while. Lets see, the Duesenberg or a 125' classic sailing yacht ? Both make nice fantasy's 

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, mercer09 said:

 

 interesting, considering collectible cars have beat out most other investments in the past 10 years. Safe to say then, rich people dont understand cars.............  100k today isnt all that much. Heck, a nice model A is worth 30-40k

 

 

I'm wondering where you are getting you  are getting your data from?   According to this calculator,  the SP500 has doubled since 2008 https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/.

 

I know that almost all of my cars are either worth the same or less than what they were worth in 2008 and they certainly have not doubled.  Perhaps I'm buying the wrong cars?

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Al,

 

many articles out there stating that top cars have quadrupled in the last 10 years. You have a couple of "special" ones and I am sure they are worth more then double in that time.

 

The cars are #1 on the list with rare coins in a distant 2nd position for appreciation.

 

just google it.

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here is just one article-showing cars at 288% growth over the last 10 years, cars are apparently dropping the last year or two, but still #1 over 10 years.

 

Knight Frank Luxury Investment Index (to Q1 2018)

Luxury asset

Price Growth

12-month

5-year

10-year

Art

21%

29%

55%

Wine

9%

58%

174%

Watches

5%

23%

69%

Coins

4%

50%

182%

Jewellery

4%

41%

138%

Stamps

1%

11%

103%

Coloured diamonds

0%

9%

77%

Antique furniture

-1%

-20%

-32%

Cars

-1%

91%

288%

Chinese ceramics

-2%

-12%

-4%

KFLII

6%

40%

108%

*Chinese ceramics, coins, stamps, furniture, watches and jewellery to Q4 2017

Sources: Knight Frank Research, Art Market Research, HAGI, Wine Owners, Fancy Color Research Foundation, Stanley Gibbons

Info@BestMediaInfo.com

 
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I tried to tell my wife that moving all our money in to Hummels and antique furniture was not going to be a good idea.

 

25 years ago I wanted a GT40,  A Miura, a Pantera and a 356 Speedster.   All of these cars were expensive then but attainable.   Instead I decided it would be a good idea to jump in on the Reo Royale and Hupp bandwagon.

 

I'm going to set up an investment company called "Do the Opposite of what I tell you to do".

 

Btw,  the SSJ came along as part of the Briggs Cunningham collection.  The Colliers were tight with Briggs since before WWII.   The ARCA book outlines all this.  That car will be a 10x profit.

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20 hours ago, Walt G said:

but some individuals have to comment on everything no matter what it may be on .

 

Well, after that, I've decided not to post any more on this thread, that's for sure....oh, snap, I just did....

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I think everyone's comments are great. You can tell that they are from people at all levels of wealth and different view points. Nice to hear what people think. The car in question will find it's value, that is one real conversation. What happens to it, where it goes and what is done with it. Is another conservation. I like hearing comments from people who are involved in cars like this, a person can learn a lot. 

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44 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I'm going to set up an investment company called "Do the Opposite of what I tell you to do".

 

I have had a tough time with the name Bernard. It appears my Mother pronounced it wrong and I usually have to be corrected. "Daily" is a huge stumbling block that seems to be the most unfamiliar word out there. You'd think it would be used on a daily basis. So paperwork is in progress to change my name to Owen Dalton to make it easy, Cornelius as a middle name to keep it Irish.

 

Look for the new company name: The OCD Group. We are somewhat focused on many investments.

Bernie

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If memory serves me right didn't this car have a free wheeling device or some similar contraption

that didn't work very well.I recall an article in AQ about Captain Whitell and his Model "J"s and he

apparently had problems with all of them such as engine failure on the LWB speedster.Anyone

else have anything to add.

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36 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

WOW! my eyes cant stop looking at that Duesey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

like an incredibly hot woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

damn, Im getting eye burn..........................

 

This is why I made the point a few posts back about the LWB Coupe vs the SWB  SSJ.   The Whitell car just GLOWS which is why I'm not sure where the SSJ will land.

 

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2 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

The short one I tried  may have had the freewheeling "upgraded". I knew the shifter was from a Mustang as soon as I got in.

a0020.JPG.1514476fc3908bff930eee9127efd942.JPG

 

I like the Duesenberg II as far as homage or replica cars go.  The only give away is the 18 vs 19 wheels which most people can't pick up on.  Well,  that and the mustang shifter :).  

 

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21 hours ago, cahartley said:

 

I can't argue with that.

On the other hand if a car is never seen does it matter?....... :(

I doubt if E.L.Cord and Fred Duesenberg had in mind lugging these  cars on trailer.

Once while at Auburn,maybe 25 years ago a Derham (J164)was driven in from

Connecticut and the owner was asked WHY.His reply was "It's to heavy to

carry". I complimented him on the fast response.This car then was unrestored

and reeked of mothballs.I think I might have pictures of it. 

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