ericmac

Cooper Duesenberg at auction

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Hi Steve. My favorite Duesenberg coachwork ? The simple, elegant uncluttered perfection of a Murphy sedan. Blackwalls, please, so as not to detract from the line. I have felt this way for 60 years. Not having seen every Duesenberg in the world, it would be quite a thrill to have a revelation at this late date. Maybe a fairly early 7 pass touring, LWB to allow the rear of the body to be set far forward in order to accommodate a proper trunk. Proper, in that the proportions and placement of trunks range from beautifully compatible, to overpowering and garish. Open bodies ending just forward of the rear axle carry trunks most graciously to my eyes. With the sidecurtains and uncovered sidemounted wheels, the finishing touch for a powerful, almost brutish appearance, will be short, massively stout, dark stained varnished hickory spokes. Blackwalls essential, black paint, saddle brown leather matching the spokes, ditto the body pinstriping. Black, very fine intricate pinstripes on the spokes. I think I would commission Waterhouse for this one. Pictures of this anyone ?  ?,?!        Oh, if only I were.............................     -   Duesenberg Carl  ?

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This is probably the only Duesenberg that would even fit in my garage....

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On 7/25/2018 at 12:16 PM, Matt Harwood said:

I do know of a Duesenberg J that has been out of sight for decades and is currently in pieces. It has an odd roadster body without a top and I don't know that it is the original body--it's just too oddTragedy averted. 

 

Matt, that is the original body.  Ed is correct and most Dusenberg guys are aware of the car.

 

 

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6 hours ago, keiser31 said:

This is probably the only Duesenberg that would even fit in my garage....

Picture 056.jpg

 

And it's likely both of us together couldn't afford THAT one........ :wacko:

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Bob, yes I believe the Shappy car was both raced and did tow duty at one time.  Here is another shot of a local event where that car & a Judkins coupe showed up. That year, Ed was trying to bring Melvin down but had scheduling issues. 

 

Note the low windshield profile and slant, sporty!  

 

Cool for a smaller local show!

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Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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The Judkins is Richie's.  Very cool.  There are 4 or 5 of those Derhams.  In fact,  two are at auction in Monterrey later this month.   Better looking than the much more common Murphy.

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20 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Looks like one of the Billing's bodied toursters.  I probably have pictures of it being built.

 

I'm pretty sure the yellow Tourster is real.

 

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A local guy had a Tourster as well as a Lebaron bodied barrel side (AJ correct me if I am wrong about second car body style).  The Lebaron was super attractive and driven fairly often a few years ago.  He kind of dropped of the show scene recently though, the Tourster sold, not sure of the status of the Lebaron.  That would be a contender, though, for a favorite bodystyle for me.

 

Clyne car is equipped with a way to de-stress after a tough day in the board room...

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This 1933 boat tail was on the cover of the 33 shop manual. The owner purchased it from the son of the Duesenberg/Cord/Auburn factory and has the paperwork to prove it. He also has a few other cars. His business partner has a P51 Mustang plus a few cars. They are all drivers, babied but drivers. 

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Besides J444 I think the close coupled sedan that the McGowan's had was the nicest looking J I've ever walked around. Wish I could find the photos I took. It looked some what like the one in this photo, but unrestored and blue at the time.  When it first rolled onto the field at the old Ridgefield Meet their mechanic Mike Hart descried it at a two briefcase car, maybe they uses small denominations. If anyone knows the details & history of the car in the photo below I'd be interested in reading them. Bob 

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Edited by 1937hd45 (see edit history)
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Bob, do know anything about the green berline type sedan that was at a lot of CT shows, Southbury and such maybe 20 years ago? Another driven Duesenberg.  Somewhere I have pics of it in a restaurant lot on rte 1, always assumed it was local, and likely your part of the state.  Mentioned earlier, but seeing if that jogs your memory any...

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On 7/15/2018 at 9:53 AM, auburnseeker said:

Think I'll even leave the Whitewalls on it!

 

  Without them, most no car folks would just say "another old black car".   

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9 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

What was the total number of J's in the Cline collection, I remember walking by a lot of them? Bob 

 

Richie worked for Ralph Engelstad, owner of the Imperial Palace, who owned a pile of Duesenbergs.   Not sure how many Richie has owned on his own.

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10 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

A local guy had a Tourster as well as a Lebaron bodied barrel side (AJ correct me if I am wrong about second car body style).  The Lebaron was super attractive and driven fairly often a few years ago.  He kind of dropped of the show scene recently though, the Tourster sold, not sure of the status of the Lebaron.  That would be a contender, though, for a favorite bodystyle for me.

 

 

Steve,  here is the tourster owned by the Local Guy's father circa 1971.   Below that is the Barrel Side in the far back circa 1965.

 

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2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Richie worked for Ralph Engelstad, owner of the Imperial Palace, who owned a pile of Duesenbergs.   Not sure how many Richie has owned on his own.

Thanks for that bit of info, I've always thought the Imperial Palace was his. Bob 

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A wonderful thread I have enjoyed it very much! (I mean, who can't love a Duesenberg?)  So, I figure maybe I should ask my question. I was very fortunate to have had the opportunity to get to know Jack Passey. My dad had attended college with Jack's brother Bill. So when I started showing a strong interest in antique automobiles? Of course, one of the first places we went to was Jack's place. My favorite of all the Duesenbergs I have seen (I did tour through the display the Imperial Palace had about twenty some years ago), was Jack's (then) black roadster ( I guess it was actually a convertible coupe?). Does anyone here know whatever became of that car? 

I don't recall ever seeing the "Mae West" car, and although I know Jack really liked the Le Baron Phaeton he had after that, somehow I always preferred the clean lines of that black roadster with the top down.

I understand that the Le Baron Phaeton became part of the Otis Chandler collection (after an incredible restoration!). But what became of the Mae West car and the other convertible coupe I don't know.

 

Me, just wondering. And thank you all for your tales and reminiscences of Duesenbergs past and present!

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Duesenbergs are intriguing for several reasons. Disclaimer, I don’t own one, but have tried to in the past, and maybe some day in the future I will attempt to own a “bottom feeder” Model J, even if it’s only for a  relatively short period of time........ it’s probably only a 25 percent chance of happening, but it’s an itch I would like to scratch. Duesenberg collectors have a bit of a different attitude than most collectors of other types of cars. And they all seem to fit in several different catagories amongst themselves. I find the reasons any one particular owner buys a particular car as  fascinating. Overall, In the world of J’s, many cars are perused or are  passed by for reasons that would not necessarily come into play on other makes and models of cars. Let’s take a Murphy clear vision sedan as an example. I’ll guess there are about six of them, I won’t bother too look up the exact number. I have always liked the fit and finish of closed cars, and am a fan of the clear vision sedans. Some J collectors would just pass them by and not even consider owning them, for many assorted reasons........closed car, too many survivors, bad lines, not wanting a Murphy of any sort, ect, ect.  The interesting thing is while many people will pass it over, and not even consider it, others will pursue it for one of any assorted reasons. Let’s assume for a minute a perfectly restored correct numbers matching sedan that is 100 points and been away from the car scene for many years comes on the market. The fact that it hasn’t been on the show circuit or been out in twenty, thirty, or forty years will influence its price and desirability, but some buyers would just not even consider it and look for a car with new coachwork because they want an open J. Personally, I prefer history and provenance over the car with the modern coachwork reguardless of body style, but that is certainly the minority opinion. Then we can look at a Murphy Roadster, of which they built something like thirty or so cars. There are two variants regular and disappearing top. Now I think any true car guy with gasoline in his veins would gladly take either one. But some collectors wouldn’t consider either car as they are “just another Murphy Roadster.” For many it’s rarity or a singularity of style that’s more important, even if the body style is not as desirable and a car of lesser value. Personally I prefer a phaeton over any roadster, regular or disappearing top. That is NOT where the market is heading today. Having been brought up in the hobby relatively early, my taste was influenced by my mentors long ago and hasn’t changed. The Duesenberg collectors are an interesting bunch of people, and I find them fun to watch from afar.........do they drive their cars? Many owners have never taken their car down a public road, just driving them on and off the trailers and show fields.........others go on the reunion tours, and line them up side by side and drag race them like  back in the old days when they were new. I have been fortunate over the years to own a few decent early cars, and I have driven more makes and models of big pre war iron than 99 percent of the people in the hobby. Duesenbergs are simply just fantastic machines, and yes, they deserve the reputation that they have. Adjatives such as light, nimble, and in a certain sense “refined” don’t apply. Powerful, acceleration beyond anything that one would expect in spite of it’s legendary nature, truck like handeling, they are just such and interesting contrasting set of contradictions that make up the mighty “J”. Simply, there is NO other American car that can hold their own against them. They have their faults and affectations, but get behind the wheel and they all go away. Driven as they were meant to be........which ALMOST never occurs today, there is simply nothing like them......nothing. Yes, a 2.9 Alfa can’t be compared to it in my opinion, there’s nothing like pure American horsepower in its raw and unrefined state..........the fact that any survived is rather amazing because when you get behind the wheel logic and rationality tend to want to leave you......the accelerator on a “J” is like a beautiful woman, a great bottle of scotch, or whatever other temptation in life drives you to make poor decisions.........it’s hard not to push the car where it wants to take you. A  “J” just isn’t happy until you really spool it up, thirty five hundred rpm’s and it’s just starting to come alive, forty five hundred on the  tachometer and the world fades away and nothing in the universe exists except you and the road......the vibrations, valve noise, the music of the exhaust........it’s the most intoxicating thing I have ever experienced, and unfortunately have done so only for a few seconds at a time testing and tuning ............. respecting the car and it’s ability along with the fact that when  I drive it’s only as a technician being sure the car will perform correctly for its owner , I can still imagine what it would be like to drive the car to its edge of performance as it was built to do for hours on end.....................I’m just thankful and blessed for having the chance to work on and with such great cars, as it is a privilege. I can only imagine getting behind the wheel of the car that started this thread, a SSJ “Shorty” and the J collectors refer to them. I have never had a chance to drive an original SJ, and have only moved a car around in a parking lot with a reproduction super charger. The short wheelbase Supercharged speedster would be an incredible car to drive, and if offered a chance to take it out for a spin...........well I would just pass on it. The temptation to push the car would be too great for me, and I rather imagine what it would be like than having the actual experience of just driving it around the lot or down the road. But, there is no worry........I don’t think anyone is going to make me that offer. It will remain just a pleasant daydream when I gaze upon the car as it gets hammered down to its new owner.............Here’s to it being a wise man, one who will drive it and share it with others, as any masterpiece of art, sculpture , and design should be shared. Ed

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:59 PM, alsancle said:

 

Matt, that is the original body.  Ed is correct and most Dusenberg guys are aware of the car.

 

 

767C3813-3EE0-42D7-8BF4-39643CDD4F96.jpeg

 

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