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Proceedings and explanation of Denver General and BOD Meetings


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Lamar, I really don't want to disagree with you, but I don't want to put this all out there under it's own heading either. Since it was brought up, incorrect assumptions made, and a response requested, I have offered to do so with the approval of Alan Oldfield, not of my actual words here, as he has not seen them, but in that I am aware of what occurred..  If you would like to move it, please feel free.  I am no longer on the BOD and do not wish to enter into any further discussion publicly about this.

 

As it will likely be a few more days before the official minutes are prepared (long meetings, all notes painstakingly transcribed from voice and video recordings), I will post a short explanation here.

 

All BCA Members will receive in their July Bugle, the response to Terry Wiegand's email to the Chapter Directors. This response was signed by BOD members Alan, myself, John, Rick, Bob, and Ed. This is only the response to the accusations made in that email, some valid as you will see when you read the letter. There are many more details not presented in this response letter, but shown in the minutes of the BOD meetings and emails that are pertinent to the discussion. There are also other details that were not made public because they aren't germane to the operations of the club, but were of a more personal nature. These were the motivating factors to several of the BOD, as to how to proceed, not the actual act of reporting the club to the IRS.

 

At the General Membership meeting Thursday night, a petition for Terry's resignation was presented by Jack Gerstkemper, signed by a majority of the board and several past presidents and board members. I'm sorry, l do not have the exact wording of that petition. Other members also signed, but were not publicly read. Discussion ensued, including 6-8 additional speakers who echoed the same sentiment. When asked for a show of hands, roughly 90+% of the 70-80 members in attendance agreed. When asked for comment, Terry did not offer to resign.
 

After the majority of the Board meeting had been completed, Terry had still not offered to resign.  Since I had fielded a number of comments/requests from BCA and BOD members, I presented a motion to begin the expulsion process under our By-Laws. I had reviewed the SOP and By-Laws that morning and didn't find a means to remove Terry from only the BOD. It was not my preference to present the motion or to expel Terry. It did not make me happy to have to do it. I believe those in attendance will confirm that my countenance conveyed that. I had hoped that Terry would resign. However, I felt that it was my responsibility as Vice-President to present the motion and leave it up to a vote after the emotion shown at the membership meeting.

 

Since I am no longer on the BOD, I am not party to any follow up conversations that may have occurred since the BOD meeting. I will say that this motion and action is a last resort. It is my hope, and I believe it to be that of others, that another solution can be found to resolve the issues, but Terry staying on the BOD is not an option, in my opinion.

 

I would hope that my 6 years on the BOD and 2 years as BCA President would have made it clear that my goal is always harmony and inclusion. I fought hard for many issues, but also felt the importance of maintaining positive relationships and reaching compromises. Sometimes this has been to the detriment of my issues. I understand that, but always tried to champion harmony and inclusion. Sometimes I falied, that I admit. However, it was always my goal and it still is. Harmony and inclusion. This is a hobby club and it's supposed to be enjoyable. A lack of professionalism, order, and dignity cannot be tolerated or allowed to persist. There are limits. I believe that is why there is an expulsion process. I would hope that we can come together, fix the problems, heal the wounds, and agree to continue to fight for that goal of harmony and inclusion in this, our Buick Club of America.

 

I would ask, probably naively, that further comments wait until the minutes are prepared, approved, and posted. This may not present the entire story, but the majority of it should be there. I believe that John D also generally posts "minutes" from the general membership meeting, although this is not a requirement. John D is just that thorough.

To clarify, I will highlight the wording of my motion that came directly from our By-Laws/SOP.  The vote to my recollection was 5-2 in favor.
 

"Following a petition for resignation presented to the BOD at the general membership meeting on 6/21/2018, several impassioned speeches by members present, and a showing of hands by the vast majority in attendance indicating agreement with said petition, there being no provision for removal of a sitting BOD member, I move that the BOD begin expulsion proceedings against Terry Wiegand, member #25247, for Terry's conduct that has disturbed the order, dignity, business or harmony of the BCA, or to have impaired it's good name, goodwill, or prosperity."

Edited by bhclark
added vote count. (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, bhclark said:

 

I would ask, probably naively, that further comments wait until the minutes are prepared, approved, and posted

 

Thank you Brian, for having the fortitude to present the above explanation of the proceedings of the meetings. I will ask that his request for further comments prior to the posted minutes please be honored.

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FYI, In case anyone thinks I am shirking my duty to prepare these minutes.  As of this writing I now have more than 12 hours into transcribing the first hour of the membership meeting.  I do not say this for pity.  But just to let you know I am working on it every day and trying to get it done as quickly as I can.

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Having just read the letter in the "Bugle" this is the first I have heard of this. If available could we read TW's letter or email so we can be informed as to his basis for this action?

I fully agree on the financial statement issue, which I have noticed as well. In addition, I do not feel previous financials were properly formatted to reflect reserves.

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On 6/29/2018 at 9:26 AM, JohnD1956 said:

FYI, In case anyone thinks I am shirking my duty to prepare these minutes.  As of this writing I now have more than 12 hours into transcribing the first hour of the membership meeting.  I do not say this for pity.  But just to let you know I am working on it every day and trying to get it done as quickly as I can.

John: I don't know if I should pity you or me at this point , as It looks like I will be taking on a challenge here.

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A post containing profanity has been removed.  Any future posts that contain profanity, are not civil or are off subject will also be removed. Please folks let’s see this through as the ladies and gentlemen I know you all are 

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May I ask my 30 Day question here concerning the action taken on Mr Wiegand?

 

When does the 30 day window start? From the day of the vote or from when the action is formally communicated to the rank and file of the club?  It is a Due Process question. 

 

Thank you

 

May I also ask.  Was any BOD member sanctioned for not following SOP for posting the financial information?  If not, why?

 

Again, my thanks. 

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From the Bylaws:

 

"SECTION 4—Expulsion. In addition to expulsion for nonpayment of dues as provided for in Section 2 of this Article II, any member may be expelled and his membership in the BCA terminated for conduct which the Board of Directors shall determine to have disturbed the order, dignity, business, or harmony of the BCA, or to have impaired its good name, good will or prosperity, or to have violated these Bylaws, or any regulations of the BCA which are in force at the time of the alleged infraction, as adopted by the Board of Directors. Such expulsion shall be by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the members of the Board of Directors present at a meeting thereof duly called and held; provided, however, that the Board of Directors at a prior meeting thereof shall first have voted to institute expulsion proceedings and that thereafter a statement of the charges shall have been mailed by registered or certified mail to the accused member, directed to his last recorded address, at least 30 days before final action is taken thereon. This statement shall be accompanied by a notice of the time, date and place where the Board of Directors is to take action on such charges. Such notice shall state that the accused member will have an opportunity to present a defense at the time and place designated in such notice. The decision of the Board of Directors shall be final and conclusive. All rights and privileges of an expelled member shall terminate immediately after the expulsion."

 

It would appear that Terry needs to let his supporters know when and where the meeting is. I also find it interesting that as a Member of the Board, Terry will get a vote on his proposed expulsion. The number of votes needed to expell a sitting board member with 2/3 majority certainly looks like a difficult bar to pass when that board member gets a vote in this case. 

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29 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

From the Bylaws:

 

"SECTION 4—Expulsion. In addition to expulsion for nonpayment of dues as provided for in Section 2 of this Article II, any member may be expelled and his membership in the BCA terminated for conduct which the Board of Directors shall determine to have disturbed the order, dignity, business, or harmony of the BCA, or to have impaired its good name, good will or prosperity, or to have violated these Bylaws, or any regulations of the BCA which are in force at the time of the alleged infraction, as adopted by the Board of Directors. Such expulsion shall be by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the members of the Board of Directors present at a meeting thereof duly called and held; provided, however, that the Board of Directors at a prior meeting thereof shall first have voted to institute expulsion proceedings and that thereafter a statement of the charges shall have been mailed by registered or certified mail to the accused member, directed to his last recorded address, at least 30 days before final action is taken thereon. This statement shall be accompanied by a notice of the time, date and place where the Board of Directors is to take action on such charges. Such notice shall state that the accused member will have an opportunity to present a defense at the time and place designated in such notice. The decision of the Board of Directors shall be final and conclusive. All rights and privileges of an expelled member shall terminate immediately after the expulsion."

 

It would appear that Terry needs to let his supporters know when and where the meeting is. I also find it interesting that as a Member of the Board, Terry will get a vote on his proposed expulsion. The number of votes needed to expell a sitting board member with 2/3 majority certainly looks like a difficult bar to pass when that board member gets a vote in this case. 

 

Thank you Matt 

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I'm not a member of the Buick Club, even though I own an early Buick.

 

That said, this discussion and "fight", being aired in plain view of thousands of members of the AACA, is not in good form.

 

I would advise that you make this matter private as it can be, and not publicize to so many people on this forum that there's such an issue.  It's going to hurt you in the long run.  Remember that this is not a "private Buick Club" type forum.

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1 hour ago, trimacar said:

I'm not a member of the Buick Club, even though I own an early Buick.

 

That said, this discussion and "fight", being aired in plain view of thousands of members of the AACA, is not in good form.

 

I would advise that you make this matter private as it can be, and not publicize to so many people on this forum that there's such an issue.  It's going to hurt you in the long run.  Remember that this is not a "private Buick Club" type forum.

I agree, we should have had a members only forum years ago.

John

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The letter in the Bugle did not tell even 10% of the story.  Before Terry acted, he had the interests of the members truly at heart and asked for the board to have the financials printed in the Bugle as required for over a year.  He wrote emails detailing what he would do if the financials were not printed.  They were not printed and he did what he said he would do. The board had over a year to act and they stonewalled.  My question is if everything is accurate and there is nothing fishy going on, why refusing to print a consolidated financial statement that includes all of the revenue and expenses of the club and the national meets in the Bugle????  Oh, there from what I have heard and seen there is no accounting of the national meet on the Buick Club financials.   Might be wrong, but I have not seen it.  There was nothing shown at the member meeting or the board of directors meeting at Denver that I could determine.

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8 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

The letter in the Bugle did not tell even 10% of the story.  Before Terry acted, he had the interests of the members truly at heart and asked for the board to have the financials printed in the Bugle as required for over a year.  He wrote emails detailing what he would do if the financials were not printed.  They were not printed and he did what he said he would do. The board had over a year to act and they stonewalled.  My question is if everything is accurate and there is nothing fishy going on, why refusing to print a consolidated financial statement that includes all of the revenue and expenses of the club and the national meets in the Bugle????  Oh, there from what I have heard and seen there is no accounting of the national meet on the Buick Club financials.   Might be wrong, but I have not seen it.  There was nothing shown at the member meeting or the board of directors meeting at Denver that I could determine.

Larry: The National Meets are a totally separate issue from overall finances. The entire structure of the way they are financed and how the income (if there is any) is distributed has been an evolutionary process. I will do my best to explain how we on the National Meet Committee view it at present.

Years ago the National Meets were run by the Chapters and the profit or loss was theirs . As the cost of running meets increased and the membership aged, it was tougher to find Chapters willing to host a National Meet. The potential for a financial disaster as well as the unkown portions of running a Meet also became an issue. The National Meet Committee was established. This committee has evolved from actually running meets to providing assistance to Chapters or regions willing to host a meet. The NMC has come up with an option, (soon to be an SOP) for the BCA to guarantee the host Chapter will not actually lose any money if the meet goes awry. The NCM has an account within the BCA funds to finance a National Meet , with all invoices and expenses paid by the BCA CFO and at the end of the event. The profits (if there are any) are split 50 / 50 by  the host Chapter and the Chapters providing volunteers to run the Meet, and the BCA. (actually to the NMC account) .None of the recent National Meets have been large money makers, but the host Chapters and the NMC have had the opportunity to provide an enjoyable experience for BCA attendees. Denver being an example of that. All of the bill for Denver are not in yet, so It is not known if Denver will be financially profitable or not yet. But is was a wonderful event for all the attended and that is what matters.

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Jack,

 

Your last post reminds me of a semi-related question that I have not yet figured out.  Your post included, "with all invoices and expenses paid by the BCA CFO".

 

From what I understand, the BCA now has a board member elected as Treasurer. If so, does that mean that the club no longer has an appointed CFO? And if that is correct, Do the additional financial questions that Bill Stoneberg indicated he would answer after he returned from the Denver Meet now need to be asked of someone else?

 

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1 minute ago, MCHinson said:

Jack,

 

Your last post reminds me of a semi-related question that I have not yet figured out.  Your post included, "with all invoices and expenses paid by the BCA CFO".

 

From what I understand, the BCA now has a board member elected as Treasurer. If so, does that mean that the club no longer has an appointed CFO? And if that is correct, Do the additional financial questions that Bill Stoneberg indicated he would answer after he returned from the Denver Meet now need to be asked of someone else?

 

Matt: I am not sure going forward, how the duties will be split between treasurer and CFO, if we will still retain a CFO. I know it was discussed at the BOD meeting in Denver, but with out seeing the actual Minutes, I can not answer that at this time. I do know that Bill is still handling the questions about the Club's finances prior to Denver, and I can also say that the BOD and Bill appreciate that the sooner we can get these in to the Bugle , the better it will be for all.

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The bylaws appear to allow only a Treasurer or a CFO, Not both: 

 

TREASURER: The Board of Directors, at their discretion, may appoint a Chief Financial Officer in place of a Treasurer. The position of Chief Financial Officer need not be filled by a current Board member. If the position of Chief Financial Officer is filled by a non-board member, the Chief Financial Officer will have a vote only on financial matters and no other voting privileges. In the future the Board may elect to split the duties. Appointed Chief Financial Officers shall have a term of two consecutive years.

 

The bylaws are slightly unclear. It would appear to me that the board needs to clarify if the CFO term ends upon the appointment of the Treasurer, or if the board is keeping the CFO until the end of the initial appointment. If so, when does the current CFO's two year term end? I have no idea when he was last reappointed to that position. 

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3 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

Larry: The National Meets are a totally separate issue from overall finances. The entire structure of the way they are financed and how the income (if there is any) is distributed has been an evolutionary process. I will do my best to explain how we on the National Meet Committee view it at present.

Years ago the National Meets were run by the Chapters and the profit or loss was theirs . As the cost of running meets increased and the membership aged, it was tougher to find Chapters willing to host a National Meet. The potential for a financial disaster as well as the unkown portions of running a Meet also became an issue. The National Meet Committee was established. This committee has evolved from actually running meets to providing assistance to Chapters or regions willing to host a meet. The NMC has come up with an option, (soon to be an SOP) for the BCA to guarantee the host Chapter will not actually lose any money if the meet goes awry. The NCM has an account within the BCA funds to finance a National Meet , with all invoices and expenses paid by the BCA CFO and at the end of the event. The profits (if there are any) are split 50 / 50 by  the host Chapter and the Chapters providing volunteers to run the Meet, and the BCA. (actually to the NMC account) .None of the recent National Meets have been large money makers, but the host Chapters and the NMC have had the opportunity to provide an enjoyable experience for BCA attendees. Denver being an example of that. All of the bill for Denver are not in yet, so It is not known if Denver will be financially profitable or not yet. But is was a wonderful event for all the attended and that is what matters.

 Jack,

 

If the BCA is sponsoring the National Meet, then all of the money must be recorded under the greater BCA consolidated financial statement.  Just common sense and common practice.

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Larry: if you feel that way, since you are a BOD member, I would advise you to ask Alan to put it as a line item on the next BOD agenda. It is currently recorded in the minutes of the NMC meetings. AS NMC Chair, I am quite comfortable with the way it is being done now, as the money is being accounted for and records kept. The profit to the BCA line item does go to the BCA financial report. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jack Welch said:

Larry: if you feel that way, since you are a BOD member, I would advise you to ask Alan to put it as a line item on the next BOD agenda. It is currently recorded in the minutes of the NMC meetings. AS NMC Chair, I am quite comfortable with the way it is being done now, as the money is being accounted for and records kept. The profit to the BCA line item does go to the BCA financial report. 

 

 

Jack,

 

Where or how can BCA members read the NMC Meeting minutes?

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10 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

 

Jack,

 

Where or how can BCA members read the NMC Meeting minutes?

Matt:  For the most part nobody has even cared about them in the three years , that i have been on the committee. If you or anyone else has interest in them, just email me or drop me a note via snail mail with your BCA number and let me know which month or year, that you are interested in and I will send you out a copy.. Bob Safrit has been our secretary for the last few years and Roy Faries is our incoming Secretary. I have to warn you, they are about as boring as it gets, with details of hammering out hotel contracts, parking issues with hotels , cost of banquets , costs of tours, hotel negotiations, et al.

Edited by Jack Welch (see edit history)
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27 minutes ago, Jack Welch said:

just email me

 

now tha's a novel idea. Why don't all interested parties share your email addresses and correspond via emails and get all this sorted out then return here and let us know the outcome. I am beginning to wonder, we aren't allowed to discuss world or national politics but it is ok to argue club politics with the whole antique auto enthusiast world looking on!!??   Personally I, and I suspect many of the users here are tiring of the subjects of 3-4 ongoing threads, with me personally staying up until 4 am this morning trying to trace drones and ip addresses and decipher all this. As moderator,  I am trying to maintain my integrity by remaining unbiased and neutral on all of what has been said but my patience is getting thin.

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also there use to be a forum "BCA Directors Only" that was closed dues to lack of use,  but could possibly be reinstated. Does that need to happen? 

 

Suggestions on how to get this forum back to talking about Buicks instead of club politics would be appreciated.

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46 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

also there use to be a forum "BCA Directors Only" that was closed dues to lack of use,  but could possibly be reinstated. Does that need to happen? 

 

Suggestions on how to get this forum back to talking about Buicks instead of club politics would be appreciated.

Brian Depouli had a great start with that on his thread about helpful members. The problem is that there are some who would rather just rant than have fun discussions. The BCA Director's forum may have some merit, but several BOD members stay away from this forum just to try and keep a positive attitude about Club Business. Members should feel good that finances are in good order with sufficient reserves, the Bugle has never been better , we are having Chapters step up to host National Meets. The Club is in fine shape , and yet we have all this bickering. As they say, we have met the enemy and it is us

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1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

 

now tha's a novel idea. Why don't all interested parties share your email addresses and correspond via emails and get all this sorted out then return here and let us know the outcome. I am beginning to wonder, we aren't allowed to discuss world or national politics but it is ok to argue club politics with the whole antique auto enthusiast world looking on!!??   Personally I, and I suspect many of the users here are tiring of the subjects of 3-4 ongoing threads, with me personally staying up until 4 am this morning trying to trace drones and ip addresses and decipher all this. As moderator,  I am trying to maintain my integrity by remaining unbiased and neutral on all of what has been said but my patience is getting thin.

 

 

Amen.

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2 hours ago, MrEarl said:

also there use to be a forum "BCA Directors Only" that was closed dues to lack of use,  but could possibly be reinstated. Does that need to happen? 

 

Suggestions on how to get this forum back to talking about Buicks instead of club politics would be appreciated.

It's still there hasn't been used in over 3 years.

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On 6/30/2018 at 5:01 PM, MrEarl said:

A post containing profanity has been removed.  Any future posts that contain profanity, are not civil or are off subject will also be removed. Please folks let’s see this through as the ladies and gentlemen I know you all are 

I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities.  I will try to restate my position without the use of "profanity" (although in this day in age, I would argue that the offending word was not profane at all, just colorful.  As a matter of fact, it's in the Oxford English Dictionary, so there).

 

What I said was, every organization has a "malcontent", "trouble-maker", etc. whose purpose is to make things difficult for the honest, hard working, volunteers who run the organization.  We now know who the trouble-maker is in the BCA.  I for one would support his ouster so that the mission of the club can proceed without these useless diversions.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Pete O said:

  We now know who the trouble-maker is in the BCA.  I for one would support his ouster so that the mission of the club can proceed without these useless diversions.

 

Pete, I have had direct communication with many BCA members, including each of the current members of the board of directors recently. I don't think that your blanket statement of "We now know who the trouble-make is in the BCA." accurately reflects what I am hearing from many members.  We will simply have to agree to disagree on this issue. I suspect that we all anxiously await the quick resolution of this issue. I also hope to be able to view the minutes of the last meeting as well as the club's up to date financial reports in the near future. I do hope to see the board's minutes begin to reflect a concerted effort by all to work together for the good of the membership and the professional operation of the club. 

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2 hours ago, Pete O said:

I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities.  I will try to restate my position without the use of "profanity" (although in this day in age, I would argue that the offending word was not profane at all, just colorful.  As a matter of fact, it's in the Oxford English Dictionary, so there).

 

What I said was, every organization has a "malcontent", "trouble-maker", etc. whose purpose is to make things difficult for the honest, hard working, volunteers who run the organization.  We now know who the trouble-maker is in the BCA.  I for one would support his ouster so that the mission of the club can proceed without these useless diversions.

 

Oh you did not offend MY sensibilities, far from it. I'm a Marine, learned lots of words worse than that aboard Navy ships floating around Nam.  And thank you for trying to rephrase your comment to sound less profane or whatever but I'm afraid you still just don't get it. And excuse me in advance for using you as an example for others to learn by, but as moderator of this forum I will not allow name calling whether it contains profanity, vulgarity or even big words like malcontent. Pete O, do you personally know the gentleman who is the subject of your remarks. Do you personally know what he did that would qualify him as in your words "trouble maker". If so you must have been at the meeting or read a draft of the minutes to come.  Perhaps he just lacks some skills in expressing himself sometimes or maybe misjudged the consequences of his actions. As I said in a previous post, it is a shame  that he felt his actions were the only recourse, but that does not give you nor anybody else the right to come here and cast disparaging remarks toward him and it will not be tolerated on my watch. 

 

 

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I, as a paid-up BCA member, hereby request this thread be "closed".  That any further comments NOT happen until the membership can see ALL that was presented at the General Membership Meeting.  This "side trip" has not really accomplished anything other than for many to express concerns and possibly build conspiracy theories, by observation.  Every so often, it seems that "something" gets a few BCA members "concerned" about something.  Not always alleged club politics, but something about the way things are going.

 

In some respects, some things might need to be reviewed to see if they are "class leading".  In other respects, they seem to be going better than in some other similar groups.  Time for a respectful pause.  

 

Willis Bell  20811

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Willis believe me I have considered taking the easy way out and closing this and other threads currently running that contain the same subject matter and content many of us are sick of hearing. I certainly do wish it was that easy, just close the threads so I could get back to playing in my garage. My integrity has already been questioned and accusations made that I am bias toward one group or the other and even that I am covering up some of the misdeeds of the board members. I have been threatened with such words as and I quote  you pass judgement and spew out a slanted view of something that you know absolutely nothing about.  I truly hope that I have gotten my point(s) across to you.  I DO have some recourse here as to your actions with this discussion end quote.   I don't remember the last time I even responded to any post that was club politically oriented and in fact seldom even "like" any posts anymore for fear of showing bias.  So you see, if I were to close this or any other thread it would be construed by some that I am censoring the users and may get thrown to the wolves or whatever that "recourse"  I was threatened with may be. It may be becoming obvious that my patience is wearing thin and I may not be acting as civil as a moderator might should be and I apologize for that. But one thing I am not and that is bias toward any person or group.  I am also not covering anything up. I understand that it may seem that way when I have to remove posts, that had the poster been just a bit more civil in their comments and not throwing out personal attacks, they could have remained, but I put the fault of that on that poster.

I will take this opportunity to ask that ANYONE feeling that I have exhibited bias towards them or any group or feels that I am covering up any thing please pm me and I will hear you out. Please be able to substantiate it with quotes and facts, that is all I ask. 

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First: Lamar you are a man of great character and integrity. You are doing a fantastic job here. Thank you for your service here on the forum and to our country.

 

Lets take a step back, look at reality and try be positive. There is turmoil because it is perceived BCA has TOO MUCH MONEY in the bank and didn't provide a statement. This is NOT a bad problem to have. As I write this I am imagining my wife saying "honey I found we saved too much money in the bank, I am going to report you because you didn't tell me why we have so much.  :). Silly right? She would however have ideas on how "we" could spend the new found money.

 

Anyone who has ever been on a BOD knows issues of severe personal differences consume a large amount of time that is better spent on value added tasks not to mention causes grief and mental stress to "volunteers". Sure sometimes its fully necessary. I have read meeting minutes to date and I fail to see the justification here for such drastic and potentially harmful action to the club. OK maybe there was a slow of lack of response, but again (TOO MUCH MONEY)

 

I could see great concern if reserve funds were low and a statement wasn't being provided because our dues are higher and we have a lot of patron donations. Considering all the clubs an associations I've seen over the years that had crooks skimming members money and running them into the ground, this does not concern me in the least nor does it that a nonprofit car club might have made a small "perceived" profit. I think its great there is reserves and bottom line I am getting my $50/yr worth and would not expect a dues increase for a long time. When the day comes I don't think my dues are worth the value I get in return, I have freedom of choice and will cease to be a member. Simple as that.

 

We have a BOD fairly elected by members and they have term limits. Lets trust the BOD will make a decision based on Bylaws and in the best interest of dues paying membership.

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12 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 

Oh you did not offend MY sensibilities, far from it. I'm a Marine, learned lots of words worse than that aboard Navy ships floating around Nam.  And thank you for trying to rephrase your comment to sound less profane or whatever but I'm afraid you still just don't get it. And excuse me in advance for using you as an example for others to learn by, but as moderator of this forum I will not allow name calling whether it contains profanity, vulgarity or even big words like malcontent. Pete O, do you personally know the gentleman who is the subject of your remarks. Do you personally know what he did that would qualify him as in your words "trouble maker". If so you must have been at the meeting or read a draft of the minutes to come.  Perhaps he just lacks some skills in expressing himself sometimes or maybe misjudged the consequences of his actions. As I said in a previous post, it is a shame  that he felt his actions were the only recourse, but that does not give you nor anybody else the right to come here and cast disparaging remarks toward him and it will not be tolerated on my watch. 

 

 

MrEarl,  like others have expressed, thanks for providing a forum for this issue and for volunteering to moderate it.   I do not personally know the gentleman.  I didn't know Benedict Arnold either, but I know he was a troublemaker from reading about it in history books. I read the addendum to the BOD meetings that quoted some exchanges between the members and can form an opinion from what I read.  Anyone who would intentionally sic the IRS on an organization is at best a troublemaker.  If that is a disparaging remark, it is certainly a mild one.  I can also form an opinion from your note above on what side of the argument you are landing on, and I would hope that would not cause you to silence dissenting opinions.

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RE:  Mr. Heil's comments . . .

 

What "sanctions" might be imposed on the operative(s) who have "done wrong"?  Do we invalidate their BCA membership?  Prevent them from ever being a BCA member again?  Do we put their name on a billboard by the Interstate?  What 's in the By-Laws about such things?  What significant "good" would such things serve?  Some might feel like the BCA did them a favor by getting rid of them?

 

Now, I do believe that rules should be followed, which is what any By-Laws include.  "By-Laws" are the document of self-government of any organization, IF the membership so chooses to have them at all.  As such, the same group who created them can also modify, augment, diminish, conditionally suspend, OR choose to not follow them as they might desire (with motions, votes, and other approvals).

 

Just some thoughts.  Onward and upward!

Willis Bell  20811

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Wow.  Guys, think about it.  Let's say I'm interested in joining the Buick club, because I just bought a 19whatzit Buick Belchmobile. 

 

I search the Internet, and I find this delightful thread about infighting in the club.

 

I promptly decide that's no club for me.

 

Again, I'm not a member, but you are hurting your club with every post.

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