Decode my '41 Chrysler Body Tag & Org. paint mystery.

[Chry41]

I need some help to finish decoding my body tag. I also discovered that there are three different shades of green paint on my car. The tag states original color is Polo Green, however the entire inside,  including the jambs and portions of the outside are a dark green. Would this be a primer? If so, (curve ball) there is a third shade of green (olive drab) under the serial number tag. On top of all of this, the Polo Green paint is found on all of the rubber jamb stops. Can I assume that this is a result from a repair on the right rear panel between the rear door and fender?

Edited June 14, 2018 by Chry41 (see edit history)

[28 Chrysler]

The Polo Green should be the paint under the iron oxide color, kind of a blue green color.

Your tag  must be the dark green, used cars were often painted to freshen them up, particularly just after WWII.

[Chry41]

I have an original paint chip book and the light green paint and the paint code match perfectly. Maybe it was sprayed wrong from the factory, wouldn't that be neat? Thanks.

[24Chry48]

 A participant at our WPC region show last weekend had a 40 Chrysler conv. coupe. He had received a build sheet from the historical people at FCA which showed his factory color was Federal Grey, code 525. I found that information for him but I don't know how to find his trim code, which was 739. Do you have that information? Thanks,

Greg Biskey

[Chry41]

I just moved into a new house. I will locate the box that the book is in on Monday.

[Chry41]

First of all, sorry for the delay in getting back with you. And second, according to my November 1940 Parts Numbers book, trim code 739 is not listed. However my book is the preliminary book for the 1941 model year. I would search a Parts Numbers book for that model year. Also, thank you for the tip regarding Chrysler history services. However, ever since Fiat took over D.C.J. that department has been cut way back. They can only provide me with a build date, dealership name and original owner's name. Information I have from the back of the owner's manual. Hope this helps you with your quest.

[24Chry48]

  Thanks for checking for me. He had a photo copy of the build sheet showing all the options on the car, dealer destination, paint and trim codes, etc. He may have gotten this a while ago. I will have to find out.

Greg

[Chrycoman]

Checked the Canadian 1940 parts book (the Canadian parts books before WW II had the US interior trim codes most years, but not the Canadian) and code 739 is for blue broadcloth.

 

For Chrysler, when the 1941 models were introduced  colours included Polo Green Light Metallic (326) and Polo Green Dark Metallic (314, 315).

 

At serial numbers 7,668,675 (Royal), 7,917,851 (Windsor), 6,758,411 (Saratoga), 6,631,100 (New Yorker) the metallic Polo Green colours were replaced with -

Polo Green Light (345, 346) and Polo Green Dark (334, 335) - non-metallic.

 

Bill

Vancouver, BC

 

 

[24Chry48]

  Thanks for your persistence. I will let him know.

Greg

[1941_Saratoga]

Resurrecting this thread because I'm trying to have a replacement body tag stamped for my '41 Saratoga. The picture of the tag at the top is a great reference, however I'm unsure of some of the data I need to include on my replica tag.

 

I have the C30 and 226 (for paint number) but what would I include for the rest of the data, such as production # and Job #? Also unsure of I would data I would use to replace 4SR and T3 in the example. 

 

I have a copy of my build record below, but it doesn't see to include the Interior Trim Code on the card, and my seats and door panels were recovered decades ago.

I'd like replicate the tag as accurately as possible. Any ideas on what data I'm missing? Thanks, as always!

Dave

[Chrycoman]

The tag you show was normal for that era.  Not much info as there was not much in the way of options.  That T-3 should remain as it has information on the Transmission - Fluid Drive instead of the normal clutch and flywheel, coupled with the three speed manual transmission.  Most options were dealer installed as well - radio, heater, fog lights, license plate frames, wheel covers, wheel shields - they were usually put in the trunk for the dealer to install.

 

Might have info listed as -

 

MODEL   BODY    NO

C30            02        1048

 

PAINT      TRIM      TRANS

226                          3

 

SCHEDULE       DEALER

82 - 601             18 1 01

 

 

You could choose a cloth and colour of your liking to install and place a code to match under Trim.

 

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[Chry41]

Quote

First of all, WOW! The fact the you have the original broadcast sheet is amazing! Where on Earth (or in your car) did you find it? Mine, sadly was lost decades ago through a previous botched restoration. Second, using your information, I was able to decode some of my tag information and what my car was equipped with when it left the factory in November of 1941. Lastly, does your car still retain its original 8 cylinder engine and transmission? These cars were equipped with one of three types of transmissions. (1) a 3 speed standard, (2) a 3 speed standard with overdrive, and (3) a 3 speed fluid drive. Based on your build card, it looks like yours was original outfitted with the Fluid Drive, so the T-3 would be correct for your tag. For the trim option, is there any original plastic trim left on the dash, window frames or escutcheons (round discs behind door handles and window cranks)? These were generally color coded with the interior. According to my April 1941 issued parts numbers book, These colors were available in light neutral beige, neutral mottled, plain maroon, plain blue, mottled blue, plain green, mottled green, and mottled red. (Mottled just means marbleized with white). Is there any scrap of the original fabric on the underside of the seats, arm rests door panels, kick panels, etc.? Your car being equipped with few options it is likely that Broadcloth was used and not leather or the Highlander Plaid. There were two codes for Blue Broadcloth, 770 and 780. I am not sure what the difference is between the two. There are 20 codes for "Broadcloth" and 3 for "Bedford Cord" My guess is yours is one of the two blues. But, check for those plastic pieces and scraps of cloths. I also have the Preliminary 1941 model year issued November 1940 P/N book in my office. I will check for any differences tomorrow and get back to you. I hope this helps with your quest and thank you for sharing your knowledge as well. -J.

 

Chrycoman, What year is your Chrysler? Is the body tag different from mine?

 

[1941_Saratoga]

Wow, thank you both for the great information! This forum never fails to blow me away.

 

Bill, using your info, would the example below be a correct template to send a company to replicate a tag? I chose blue broadcloth (770) for the seats (Thanks, Chyr41), as I think it would best match the Neutral Blue paint color. Also the car does have Fluid Drive, with a 3-Speed transmission and Overdrive. Would having OD change the T3 number at all?

 

 

Chry41, this isn't the original build record. I sent for a copy five years ago, a few months after I purchased the Saratoga. I'm not entirely sure they still provide this service, and someone else may have more recent experience, but I contacted a very helpful person by the name of:

Danielle Szostak-Viers
Chrysler Historical Collection
CIMS 410-11-21
12501 Chrysler Freeway
Detroit, MI 48288

 

I recall speaking to Ms. Szostak-Viers on the phone as well, but unfortunately, I've misplaced that number. 

 

My Saratoga does have the original straight-8. Actually, I posted some images a couple of years ago of the rebuild in this thread showing some before and after images of the engine, tranny and overdrive. It was kind of nice reviewing it.

 

I have all the original beige plastic trim, which was in fair condition, and stored it away. I've replaced all of the interior trim - glove box, dash plate, horn ring insert, etc, etc, with maple trim that I custom built. It has laser-engraved and inlaid lettering on several pieces - and frankly the job took the better part of 2 years to finish. Be happy to post a couple of pics if you're interested. It's not for purists, but all of the modifications that I made to the car have been non-destructive and can be reversed by the next owner.

 

Dave
 

[Chry41]

Dave, after checking my Preliminary P/N book, I found that the Blue Broadcloth for the C30 platform is code 780. The 770 code was for the C28 models. No, the T-3 would be the same as all Fluid Drives had an overdrive. Hope the updated information helps. -J.

[1941_Saratoga]

It absolutely does, Chry41. Updating the template now - thanks so much! 

 

Dave

[Chry41]

I just looked at your previous thread regarding your transmission, I too had problems with mine, again due to the botched restoration. I spent an entire calendar year rebuilding mine at a mind blowing cost of $517.00 using NOS parts found on Ebay. As a mechanic, I followed the mechanics mantra of "you can have it good, fast, or cheap. Pick any two".

After the rebuild and testing, it was suggested to me to put a five speed in it. Mine is also is not 100% original and I know the purest may balk, but what are you suppose to do with a one year only body and limited produced parts when your a high school teacher and no $$$? Purest can rest easy as any and all changes are bolt on and much to my wifes dismay, I have retained all original parts. There is something about keeping these old cars on the road that drives my soul.

[Chry41]

Ok Dave, I spent hours trolling through my vast archives of '41 Chrysler photos. I have determined that that the 4SR is the number of doors and body type and trim level. So 4 doors, Sedan, and Royal. Yours would be CCS, Club Coupe, Saratoga

[1941_Saratoga]

Chry41, that is great researching! Really appreciate the time you put into it.

 

The last image shows CCW which I assume stands for Club Coupe Windsor, so I guess the convention is to just use the number of doors for a sedan (4).  Here are the changes I made to the template based on your findings. Thanks again! 

Dave

[Chry41]

You would be correct. As far as your production number and job number, I think Bill pointed out on your build card those numbers. If not, make up some random numbers or use an anniversary or birth date. Who would know the difference, and would you ever meet that person?

 

[1941_Saratoga]

Thanks Chry41,  I appreciate the help!

[1941_Saratoga]

I had mentioned previously about the Maple trim I installed in place of the original plastic. Here are a few shots of the dash, wheel and door trim. As I said, it may not be for purists, but finding original '41 Chrysler plastic trim is like searching for hens' teeth...

 

[c49er]

Very nice!

[Chry41]

Very beautiful. Mine was almost completely gone. I had all of mine with exception of the dash board replicated in blonde birds eye maple. It was the closest I could get to recreating the original Mottled Beige. I have yet to pull the dash board out, because I have to completely scratch build the entire floor from firewall to rear bumper and the rockers. These are some older pictures, I have had the car since December 2002 and stored it for a few years until I finished college. I had been working on it steadily for ten years until life happened. Career change, getting married, two back to back floods, and relocating to higher ground. But, thankfully the car and her parts were 6 ft in the air during both floods. The chassis is a completely restored and drivable unit with minor safety improvements. The body is on a rotisserie and the extensive metal work is underway. My engine is not painted in its original red either because I absolutely hate the color red. My car has been painted several times over the years, 3 different shades of green (and not knowing which shade is the correct one or the original one is baffling) a red oxide and then horribly "Catepillar" yellow. I bought it from a man, (whose father-in-law won it in some drunken poker game gone wrong) worked for the heavy equipment company and one day they were painting a bulldozer and well.......the "TijuanaTaxi" was born. Funny thing, Chrysler didn't offer yellow in 1941.

[1941_Saratoga]

Interesting history on your Chrysler. If those are older pictures, have you installed the trim yet?

[Kevin113]

I need information on these two cars.  I can't find the VIN numbers on either of them.  I've looked all around interior and in both door posts. 

 

The first image is from what I believe is a 1951 DeSoto. 

 

From the discussion thread I can reason out that the second image shows that it is a 1941 C28 Chrysler Sedan.  I'm guessing the 2SW means 2 door sedan windsor?  T3 = 3 speed transmission. Production No. 2720?  

 

Any help locating serial numbers/VIN would be appreciated.

[Chry41]

First I'm glad my information could help you. Vehicles did not have a VIN designation until the 1960's. Prior to that they were assigned a serial number. MoPars were especially confusing since every major part had a different serial number and none were "matching". Engines had their own separate serial number for example. Prior to WWII,  MoPar had their serial number on the passenger side front door frame between the upper and lower hinges. Afterwards it was located on the driver's side door pillar. I have attached a link that I hope helps you. Now, it is possible that the tag was removed at some point in the car's history. Look for two 1/8 holes roughly 3 1/2 inches apart, that is where it should have been. As for the second tag, yes, you are correct. The 2SW is a 2 door sedan Windsor model with a 3 speed transmission (most likely the Fluid Drive). I hope this helps and please let me know if you need help with anything else. http://www.duricy.com/~desoto/desoto_serial_numbers.shtml

Edited February 6, 2020 by Chry41 (see edit history)