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Lost Topic - 1938 1/2t Engine Removal Project


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47 minutes ago, countrytravler said:

Hi Surf. Wrong wheels? Or are they just rollers?

 

Hi Buddy, yea, I know, when I came up to see Chris she said she did not have the correct ones in the containers...bummer!

 

Actually had to purchase another '36 for the spare...just so I'd have 5 identical...

 

So I am using some '36's until I can find the correct ones...any leads would be appreciated!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Boy, she's lookin' good! I like the color. On those tapered manifold nuts, I took stainless cap nuts and drilled them through. They fit perfectly into the countersunk washers. Curious, on my '36 car, the nuts were not slotted like yours! Can't wait to see it all together!

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Thanks a bunch Jim, been a long time, but finally coming together....

 

Just a word of caution on Stainless Steel....my day job is working at a food manufacturing facility, we have tons 304 18/8 Stainless, we love it at the factory because of its resistance to corrosion, and ease of welding, and its ability to take the heat (literally)....however, we never use it for structural applications due to is low strength compared to mild steel....and even less strength compared to carbon steel.

 

"Unlike mild steels, the yield strength of annealed austenitic stainless steel is a very low proportion of the tensile strength. Mild steel yield strength is typically 65-70% of the tensile strength. This figure tends to only be 40-45% in the austenitic stainless family."

 

This is due to its material make up being over 20% Chromium and Nickel....where mild steel is just that for the most part Iron and a small bit of Carbon....

 

On this build, I used all new Grade 8 bolts/nuts on the Mechanical/Safety points, when I could, but did reuse the original "specialty" nuts/bolts when I could not find a Grade 8, like in the case of the split manifold nuts.

 

Interior, I used the original when I had them and cleaned them up, or found exact modern duplicates, if the originals were too far gone with rust.....

 

So when choosing stainless versus mild or carbon steel, keep in mind what the bolt/nut is doing and choose the material based on the job performed.

 

I try to be true to the original, but I have to bend to modern material when it makes sense.

 

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Thanks for the info and I am aware of the differences. Almost all vehicles of the time used low carbon fasteners, mostly what would a grade 2 in today's standards.Up to about the early '40's, many of the automotive fasteners had thicker heads, now, some of the stainless have heads so thin one can hardly get a wrench on them. I have used stainless nuts in other exhaust applications, mostly for preservation's sake with no adverse effects.My original cone nuts were so badly rusted they could not be reused. I also use brass nuts too in some heat related assemblies. I agree that stainless , bolts in particular, should not be used where there is any stress or certain torque values required as they have no real structural value. I tried to save as many of the original marked head bolts myself for originality where the fasteners can be seen. My biggest issue with stainless fasteners is that they are all manufactured offshore and the tolerances have become so lax that galling, especially when disassembling a tightened bolt, the threads will gall making it almost impossible to get the fastener loose. In fact, I'm not sure that any bolts or nuts are made in the USA any longer. Even 30 years ago, when I worked for a local industrial fastener house, we had to import most all of our fasteners from Canada(INFASCO brand) ! They don't even make nails here anymore!

 

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  • 4 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, vicpanza said:

Hi Alan. Haven't seen this for a while. Really coming along. Nice gob.

 

Thanks Buddy....been working out the gremlins, as you know when you go down to the frame off, coming back up will have a few bugs to be worked out.

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Gremlins to date...

 

1) Leaking and broken brass oil pressure line fitting

2) Leaking and broken brass fuel line fitting

3) Leaking brake lines all four corners

4) Leaking expansion plug (freeze plug)

5) Incorrect carb. kit

6) Non-operational fuel gauge

7) Non-operational engine temperature gauge

8) Leaking diaphragm in the timing vacuum advance

 

And still finding new ones every time I go out and test drive....the joy of our hobby!

Edited by Surf City '38 (see edit history)
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On 4/5/2020 at 4:32 PM, Surf City '38 said:

Gremlins to date...

 

1) Leaking and broken brass oil pressure line fitting

2) Leaking and broken brass fuel line fitting

3) Leaking brake lines all four corners

4) Leaking expansion plug (freeze plug)

5) Incorrect carb. kit

6) Non-operational fuel gauge

7) Non-operational engine temperature gauge

😎 Leaking diaphragm in the timing vacuum advance

 

And still finding new ones every time I go out and test drive....the joy of our hobby!

Hi Surf.

I'm home for a month or 2. What do you need? Wheels? Was the engine wet tested? Gauges was rebuilt by Bobs in MI?

Looking great.

Dave.

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2 hours ago, countrytravler said:

What do you need? Wheels? Was the engine wet tested? Gauges was rebuilt by Bobs in MI?

 

Hey Buddy, regards to Chris, found the wheels, so now have two sets; correct for '38 and a set of '36...all with caps..

 

Totally disappointing about the gauges, yes Bob's did them, and remember they also did the speedo, with 100 mph....Sent the cluster back.

 

This makes both units having to go back and forth twice.

 

Engine was wet tested, on a Dyno....not in the frame. When I went back in the frame I reused every single nut, bolt, fitting I could find....tried to stay away for everything modern unless it was a safety/performance needed...i.e. headbolts, mains bolts, motor mounts....the old fittings just split and cracked after the first fire up.

 

Radiator fluid, Oil, Brake Fluid puddles everywhere, big mess in the shop floor the morning after....

 

Not needing any parts right now....

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Can you take a picture of the wheel? Just for my reference. Thanks for your help. I was talking about the grill with the fins. Have a customer that has a 38 for 40 plus years that he is putting together. Has a 38 Ply grill now.

Did you use stainless brake lines? If so, almost impossible to seal. I had that problem when I did a 33 Ply back in the 80s.

Talk to ya later. Chris said hi back at ya.

Thanks

Dave

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On 4/5/2020 at 4:32 PM, Surf City '38 said:

Gremlins to date...

 

1) Leaking and broken brass oil pressure line fitting

2) Leaking and broken brass fuel line fitting

3) Leaking brake lines all four corners

4) Leaking expansion plug (freeze plug)

5) Incorrect carb. kit

6) Non-operational fuel gauge

7) Non-operational engine temperature gauge

😎 Leaking diaphragm in the timing vacuum advance

 

And still finding new ones every time I go out and test drive....the joy of our hobby!

 Sounds familiar I had /have most of these too.  the only one I haven't resolved is the fuel gauge.  Have you verified if its the gauge or the sending unit? it could be as simple as a bad ground. actually the sending unit is the issue in my case, the modern ( crap) gas with all the alcohol is both dissolving the shellac on the cork float causing it to sink , and attacking the  insulating materials on the electrical side  as well. So I'm just using a long thin stick as a gauge. very reliable :D .  20 years ago the float was still perfect and the gauge worked fine, so I know its the new  gas. I'm thinking of trying to seal the float with some sort of gas tank sealer at some point.

The temp gauge was the most difficult to fix. on mine the bulb was broken off. I managed to refill it with ether and solder it back on. it took all day, but  after 15 years its still working. 

 

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On 4/9/2020 at 7:03 PM, countrytravler said:

Did you use stainless brake lines?

 

Of course I did, and yes holy smokes, took awhile to figure out why they did not seal...the secret....the female and male must be exactly lined up...i.e. perfect angles.

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15 hours ago, 38rcdodge said:

Have you verified if its the gauge or the sending unit?

 

I'm thinking of trying to seal the float with some sort of gas tank sealer at some point.

 

The temp gauge was the most difficult to fix. on mine the bulb was broken off. I managed to refill it with ether and solder it back on. 

 

Gauge for sure, have hot lead coming in to one pole, and absolutely nothing on the other pole....even hot wired the gauge (both sides) to give it a jolt, and no movement (do not recommend).

 

Put electricity on the float separately, and had resistance and electricity on the float, while pulling up and down.

 

Replacement floats today are plastic...fit perfectly on existing arms.

 

On the temp gauge, my bulb came off too..when talking to the guys at Bob's they told me they fill them with ether and glycol..they suspect my soldering must not have sealed, and that is why mine does not work. To test, simply take a match, and hold it under the bulb....for just a second no more, while looking at the gauge.

 

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35 minutes ago, Surf City '38 said:

 

Gauge for sure, have hot lead coming in to one pole, and absolutely nothing on the other pole....even hot wired the gauge (both sides) to give it a jolt, and no movement (do not recommend).

 

Put electricity on the float separately, and had resistance and electricity on the float, while pulling up and down.

 

Replacement floats today are plastic...fit perfectly on existing arms.

 

On the temp gauge, my bulb came off too..when talking to the guys at Bob's they told me they fill them with ether and glycol..they suspect my soldering must not have sealed, and that is why mine does not work. To test, simply take a match, and hold it under the bulb....for just a second no more, while looking at the gauge.

 

Well, its good news as far as not having to pull the tank back out. :) actually I remember on my gauge at least one of the wires in the gauge was broken also. if I remember correct it has two coils wound with very fine wire. if its just broken loose from the gauge terminal an easy fix. if the coils need to be rewound not so easy... 

Yes replacing the float with one of plastic is a consideration probably best in the long run.

On the temp gauge, yes the soldering is what took all day.  :D  as soon as heat is applied the ether starts expanding, and blows a hole in the solder.  I think what ended up working for me was freezing the bulb in water, with just the part needing to be soldered sticking out. I wonder what the factory procedure was?. 

My way to test it was to rig up a camp stove under the hood, and boil water, that way it both tests the accuracy, and any leaks in the solder job can be seen.  

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1 hour ago, Surf City '38 said:

 

Came off of a '38 Humpback...Motor Wheel Corporation, Lansing MI.

IMG_5901.jpg

IMG_5903.jpg

IMG_5905.jpg

Nice. Interesting they are 4.25 wide. the two I have like that are only 4.00, likely off a  37-38 Plymouth (car). I always assumed they were the same as the trucks.

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11 hours ago, countrytravler said:

38 truck had 4 different wheels and 2 different hub caps. Caps are the same as the car.

2020-04-11 20_24_56-(no subject) - dave@dodgecityvintage.com - Dodge City Vintage Mail (2).jpg

2020-04-11 20_21_34-(no subject) - dave@dodgecityvintage.com - Dodge City Vintage Mail.jpg

Yes interesting. I wonder what 4.25'' wide rims are for? or maybe they widened the 4.00'' rim late in production. there is interesting hubcap info on 1937dodge dot blogspot dot com they claim truck hubcaps are  an inch smaller diameter. if so I've never seen any. mine are all over 9'' outside diameter. 

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2 minutes ago, Surf City '38 said:

Thanks Dave,

 

This chart is for '36 - '40 (LC through VC) 1/2 tons.

 

So now I have no idea on these rims I have...are they aftermarket? Passenger Car?

IMG_20200416_140834.thumb.jpg.51fc3d4db1e7bfdf28124c13fcf3790e.jpg

Capture.JPG

I don't have the '37 Parts book, can you look at group 22 in that for me?

 

I thought you wanted to compare to the 37. Sorry. That's what I posted was to compare part numbers. 

I think what you have is a Ply car wheel because of the guide holes. Ill do some research.

Dave

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2 hours ago, countrytravler said:

I don't have the '37 Parts book, can you look at group 22 in that for me?

 

I thought you wanted to compare to the 37. Sorry. That's what I posted was to compare part numbers. 

I think what you have is a Ply car wheel because of the guide holes. Ill do some research.

Dave

 

I have guide holes in the '36 artillery wheels currently on it....all four hubs have pins.

Edited by Surf City '38 (see edit history)
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