Spinneyhill Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I would not have a circle. Any high point like that with sharp curvature will make an air lock hard to remove. I would have a straight pipe, assuming the pipe runs from the master cylinder to the other side of the car to the junction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 The master cyl / junction is on the same side, and the line is around 2 feet long. with the engine /bellhousing /master cylinder mounted on rubber, it and the fuel line is the only solid metal connections. so all torque and front to back movement of the engine will be transferred through it. I do agree my circle is bigger than the original and should be flatter, so it can't trap air, but it seems dangerous to put that much stress on a straight pipe,? I think it could fatigue and break.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) I have seen some late 30's Dodge trucks with a loop and others without (mine was without) and do not know what is considered original... BTW, I did not put a loop on mine, this is a show truck only and using a straight pipe looks cleaner...if this were a driver, I would for sure put a loop in the line... Depending on my judging scores, I may change later for the sake of authenticity... So here is my take on this subject (my opinion only) So when designing modern day cars/trucks with very low internal engine part weight variances and very close tolerances with high amounts of horsepower, vibrations are nothing like they used to be, however, ridgity is still not good...things snap under tension, so today's automakers build in large amounts of plastic and rubber to absorb these shocks....in the mid '60s through the early '90s most US made cars came with the photo below....due to high amounts of twisting between the frame and the body...a shock absorber (loops) was needed to flex the twist....addtionaly the loop is used as a method to allow flex when trying to connect the lines. Notice on the photo the MC is high....and the lines run below and are usually connected to the fluid distribution block... The tube was coiled horizontally (flat) to absorb up/down twist and the line run below, to allow for air to bleed back up, via gravity... Now using the same logic for our Trucks, certainly with higher weight tolerances and minimal amounts of rubber with on some cases less than 75 hp....the location of the MC and the fluid distribution block are almost exactly horizontal to each other, with the block being slightly higher...so if you have a loop on your tube, it should be in the vertical (tall) position to absorb left/right twisting...and that the highest point of the loop is still lower than the fluid distribution block, to allow for air to be "bleed", and that the loop is still large enough to absorb and twisting from left to right.... When I rebuilt my engine, I balanced, blueprinted and Moly coated all the internal engine parts. Additionally, the flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch were all balanced together, and finally, I am in the process of balancing and trueing the drive shaft...but I am sure there will be flex under torque and vibration while at speed, but again, this is going to be a show car and not meant to be driven, so I plan to keep the line straight for now. Edited April 22, 2019 by Surf City '38 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Logical thinking. I have not seen another truck in person in detail that isn't rodded, so don't know for a fact what is correct. mine was parked since 1971, and never restored, so I believe it had the loop originally. yours is also very original, I wonder if the loop was added late in production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 There were a surprising amount of changes during the production year. mine must be one of the last made, with a bellhousing casting date of 3-28-38. one thing I notice, your distribution block is mounted more away from the frame, on a bracket. maybe it was a way of letting the whole thing flex a little, so the loop isn't needed? I don't remember how mine is mounted, but think its more solid to the frame. I'll check later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Surf City '38 said: I have seen some late 30's Dodge trucks with a loop and others without (mine was without) and do not know what is considered original... BTW, I did not put a loop on mine, this is a show truck only and using a straight pipe looks cleaner...if this were a driver, I would for sure put a loop in the line... Depending on my judging scores, I may change later for the sake of authenticity... So here is my take on this subject (my opinion only) So when designing modern day cars/trucks with very low internal engine part weight variances and very close tolerances with high amounts of horsepower, vibrations are nothing like they used to be, however, ridgity is still not good...things snap under tension, so today's automakers build in large amounts of plastic and rubber to absorb these shocks....in the mid '60s through the early '90s most US made cars came with the photo below....due to high amounts of twisting between the frame and the body...a shock absorber (loops) was needed to flex the twist....addtionaly the loop is used as a method to allow flex when trying to connect the lines. Notice on the photo the MC is high....and the lines run below and are usually connected to the fluid distribution block... The tube was coiled horizontally (flat) to absorb up/down twist and the line run below, to allow for air to bleed back up, via gravity... Now using the same logic for our Trucks, certainly with higher weight tolerances and minimal amounts of rubber with on some cases less than 75 hp....the location of the MC and the fluid distribution block are almost exactly horizontal to each other, with the block being slightly higher...so if you have a loop on your tube, it should be in the vertical (tall) position to absorb left/right twisting...and that the highest point of the loop is still lower than the fluid distribution block, to allow for air to be "bleed", and that the loop is still large enough to absorb and twisting from left to right.... When I rebuilt my engine, I balanced, blueprinted and Moly coated all the internal engine parts. Additionally, the flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch were all balanced together, and finally, I am in the process of balancing and trueing the drive shaft...but I am sure there will be flex under torque and vibration while at speed, but again, this is going to be a show car and not meant to be driven, so I plan to keep the line straight for now. Hi Ya!! Do you have a good picture with numbers of your steering gearbox? Have a customer looking for one. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, 38rcdodge said: There were a surprising amount of changes during the production year. mine must be one of the last made, with a bellhousing casting date of 3-28-38. one thing I notice, your distribution block is mounted more away from the frame, on a bracket. maybe it was a way of letting the whole thing flex a little, so the loop isn't needed? I don't remember how mine is mounted, but think its more solid to the frame. I'll check later. The block is a modern day block, not original. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, countrytravler said: Hi Ya!! Do you have a good picture with numbers of your steering gearbox? Have a customer looking for one. Thanks. Hey buddy, glad your back in town....still owe you dinner next time your down my way....I'll take some photos later this afternoon when I'm back at my shop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) If that loop in the brake line were horizontal or downwards, there would be no high point to trap air. Water pipe lines usually have a valve at high points to let air out because it is so hard to remove. Edited April 22, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Surf City '38 said: The block is a modern day block, not original. Ahh makes sense. I noticed the adapter on it. I do think the way it is will allow some flexing. my solid lines were actually done almost 25 years ago, so I don't remember every detail.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said: If that loop in the brake line were horizontal or downwards, there would be no high point to trap air. Water pipe lines usually have a valve at high points to let air out because it is so hard to remove. Yup, I think the original was more horizontal. that one was done almost 25 years ago, I'll probably re do it at some point.😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, countrytravler said: Hi Ya!! Do you have a good picture with numbers of your steering gearbox? Have a customer looking for one. Thanks. Ok, so I took a photo of the unit that was on it when I acquired the truck 5 years ago, odd markings so not sure if it is original, doubtful. Then took a shot from the unit on the 1937 donor truck I picked up in Norco a few years ago. Remember mine is a first-week production 1938, making it 6 Oct 1937, even though it’s a 1938 model year, 1937 and 1938 parts interchange easily on mine. The stamp on the rolling unit is CALI and under it is 581 and under this numbers is a 3. This was the straighter shaft unit of the two, gearboxes were fine in both, hence the reason I refurbished the odd one..... On the donor unit is 12132 over C10, this is an original unit. let me know. Edited April 23, 2019 by Surf City '38 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Surf City '38 said: Ok, so I took a photo of the unit that was on it when I acquired the truck 5 years ago, odd markings so not sure if it is original, doubtful. Then took a shot from the unit on the 1937 donor truck I picked up in Norco a few years ago. Remember mine is a first-week production 1938, making it 6 Oct 1937, even though it’s a 1938 model year, 1937 and 1938 parts interchange easily on mine. The stamp on the rolling unit is CALI and under it is 581 and under this numbers is a 3. This was the straighter shaft unit of the two, gearboxes were fine in both, hence the reason I refurbished the odd one..... On the donor unit is 12132 over C10, this is an original unit. let me know. Thank you, Alen. Great info and thank you. The truck is looking great. Talk to you later. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Interesting its stamped CALI I wonder if there were special steering boxes for California?. I'll check mine, and compare numbers, when I can. just going on memory it looks the same as yours... except yours are cleaner.😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I did locate my original brake line from the master cylinder, the loop is put in so its below the level of the inlet/outlet to prevent air entrapment. it looks professionally made, so I'd bet its from the factory. it would be interesting to see other original '38s and see how many have loops and how many not, vs production date. its hard to know for sure... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) Fuel line original with a replacement rubber, a new template below.... Edited April 29, 2019 by Surf City '38 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) Did a re-do on the fuel line and the passenger front break lines...much cleaner....after and before shots... Edited April 29, 2019 by Surf City '38 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 All that is left from 2 SS 1/4” 20’ coils and nothing left of 1 5/16 “ 20’ coil....glad that process is done...whew! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 Anyone know who is doing skins? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 I have a dumb question for you. You bought that brake pipe in a coil. How did you get it so straight on the vehicle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 29, 2019 Author Share Posted April 29, 2019 Not dumb at all....very good question. See the blue contraption in the center of the coil...sitting on my workbench. It has a series of wheels inside, then I un-coil the pipe and feed it into the wheels...I attached a standard 3/8" ratchet and begin to feed the pipe in....comes out straight. Here is a video... And this is one that is handheld... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Can you post pictures and dimensions of your gas tank? Also the latching brackets for the hood on the body and rad support? Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Looking great👍 the lines do look a lot cleaner that way. 19 hours ago, Surf City '38 said: Anyone know who is doing skins? Afraid not, I just straightened mine myself the best I could. but I'm doing more a "sympathetic" restoration. definitely not show quality. I think I read somebody makes replacement skins too. forgot who who though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 9 hours ago, Surf City '38 said: Not dumb at all....very good question. See the blue contraption in the center of the coil...sitting on my workbench. It has a series of wheels inside, then I un-coil the pipe and feed it into the wheels...I attached a standard 3/8" ratchet and begin to feed the pipe in....comes out straight. Here is a video... Cool thanks, I learned something too. the only dumb questions are those that are not asked... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) Thank you for that. I found a video showing a chap making one out of not much. Perhaps $30 total cost. The expensive part was the track rollers. Edited April 29, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 7 hours ago, countrytravler said: Can you post pictures and dimensions of your gas tank? Also the latching brackets for the hood on the body and rad support? Thanks Dave Here are the tank shots....went by the paint shop and was in the booth...should be out by Wednesday, I will try to go by again later in the week for the latch shots... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: Thank you for that. I found a video showing a chap making one out of not much. Perhaps $30 total cost. The expensive part was the track rollers. The trickiest part of the whole operation is getting the bends and planes correct...its all about orientation...in some of my shots you can see where I mark with dots the tops of pipe...this is to give the correct orientation in order to make the correct bend and plane. Planes can be off slightly and you're still able to correct, but bends...not so lucky, once bent there is no un-bending...I'd say in total time, for just the fuel line it took me about 1 1/2 hours....the rear lines that run across the rear axle, that took about 3 hours.... Edited April 30, 2019 by Surf City '38 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 3 hours ago, 38rcdodge said: Looking great👍 the lines do look a lot cleaner that way. Afraid not, I just straightened mine myself the best I could. but I'm doing more a "sympathetic" restoration. definitely not show quality. I think I read somebody makes replacement skins too. forgot who who though. I found a fellow in NZ doing skins, but he does not return my email....so I'm still searching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Yeah that's probably who I heard about, good luck in your search . are you planning to have the originals restored, or reproductions made?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrytravler Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Surf City '38 said: Here are the tank shots....went by the paint shop and was in the booth...should be out by Wednesday, I will try to go by again later in the week for the latch shots... Your the best!!!! Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Surf City '38 said: I found a fellow in NZ doing skins, but he does not return my email....so I'm still searching. DavePatten? Yes, I found him uncommunicative. I think he is away a bit, doing something else. Try the phone, but remember the time zone! In fact he'll make the whole thing, but correctness is up to the first person who wants them. The Dodge 8 ones are not quite right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 9 hours ago, 38rcdodge said: Yeah that's probably who I heard about, good luck in your search . are you planning to have the originals restored, or reproductions made?. Prefer original restoration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38rcdodge Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Good.👍 my way of thinking as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgefran Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I am rebuilding a '38 Dodge RC Humpback Panel truck. I really appreciate this presentation. Are there are any others that you have available on your build? Thank you for this effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 9 hours ago, Dodgefran said: I am rebuilding a '38 Dodge RC Humpback Panel truck. I really appreciate this presentation. Are there are any others that you have available on your build? Thank you for this effort. Hi Dodgefran, not sure what you're looking for in terms of other photos....I have several hundred and only post ones I feel nobody else has covered....let me know what you're looking for and I will pull it out of the library and post for you. Good luck on your restoration! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 On 4/29/2019 at 9:37 AM, countrytravler said: Also the latching brackets for the hood on the body and rad support? Here you go Buddy, the catch for the rear are actually pockets, a hole in the front sheet metal with a rear sheet welded on, forming a pocket, the front is simple brackets bolted to the inner Radiator Shell Frame. I circled the Passenger side, simply look to the Driver side, same location to the get the shape....I have the refurbed brackets in one of the boxes and could not find it, so I used the disassembly shot....if he really needs a close up of the refurb'd part, I can look for it this weekend when I am back in the shop.... Let me know. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 Got them, front and back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 Had a bit of time this afternoon in the shop....so I installed the horn button. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 Was working with the Heritage Group in Detroit last week, and they sent over the attached....when going back to standard from the factory, this is helpful. We are now trying to uncover the "Complete list of extra equipment and de luxe accessories available..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cutler Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 While working with them, we were looking at other build cards and were able to get closer on the options that came on "Ol' Betsy", here they are... T. Lock = Theftproof Lock R. Shocks = Rear Shocks F. Shocks = Front Shocks H.D. Cleaner = Heavy Duty Cleaner C. ? Bumper = Chrome Bumper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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