Pre war cars insane prices

[8E45E]

14 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Well, something else always came up and I never crossed that finish line.

The late William Harrah comes to mind, with his comment, "You can't restore them all"!    And in his case, money was absolutely NO object.

 

Craig

[richasco]

13 hours ago, PreWarQc said:

I know for a fact that the current generation (X's, Millenials...) will produce few humans that have the interest or hability to work with these machines.

This is a pretty bold, sweeping statement. As a gen Xer and 13 year prewar car owner, I think you need to adjust your attitude and gain a little perspective. There are plenty of people my age and younger who are willing and able to participate in this hobby. As far as prewar pricing goes, as the others have shown there are a lot of great deals to be had. In my opinion this is really a buyers market right now. I have been eyeing a very nice(driver quality) prewar Packard for a few weeks now. I never imagined that I would be able to afford a decent Packard let alone a mid-range 8 cylinder car. You state that you have money set aside for a purchase and yet you don't want to spend 20k on a car that will be worth 5k in a few years. I think you are watching the auctions on tv, that's the only place where I've seen anyone take a large loss on recent purchase. And in those cases those were cars that are way above your stated budget. Since this will be your first purchase, you should really list to what the others are saying and make sure that you have someone assist you with the pre-purchase inspection. Get it into your mind now that unless you are very lucky, your first car is going to lose value. Also don't look at any of the orphan makes, with your attitude you will never find the parts required to maintain the car. And at that point the car will sit and waste away while you keep hoping for the value to go up so you don't take a loss on the car. Hopefully you are still reading and realize that though I am being a little harsh, I am trying to help you. The entry to this hobby hasn't been this easy since the 1950s so start digging now and you will find all kinds of great deals and one of those will be a car that checks all of your needs and wants.

[Dynaflash8]

1 hour ago, MCHinson said:

I bought my first antique car when I was 35 a litle over 20 years ago. I ways a young poor police officer. It was a rusty 1931 Model A Ford that needed more work than I realized at the time. I borrowed $5,000 from my Credit Union to buy it. After I could afford a better car, I sold it (in much better condition when I bought it) to another young couple that were starting out in the hobby. I raised two kids in antique cars over the years. I have had a bunch of Model A Fords, a few other antique cars, and now I am into Pre-War Buicks.  I am 57 years old, retired, and have more disposable income than I did when I was young. Join a local club, find an affordable car, and start enjoying the hobby. Your first car is probably not going to be one that you would consider buying many years from now. The hobby is fun. The people will become great friends. You don't have to find the perfect antique car to get in the hobby. As a young person, you will not be able to afford a perfect antique car that you will want to keep forever. You have to start somewhere. An old Model A Ford in poor condition is an affordable way for a young person to afford and enjoy the hobby.

   

Matt, I've had the blue car since 1963.  It has been "restored" (refurbished twice is more like it) three times over the years 1963-1981. It finally won a First Junior and Senior in 1981 and a Grand National First in 1982.  It didn't compete for a Grand National Senior until 2000 and it won that too.

So my $125 car was the same one I've kept "forever" (keeping in mind that nothing is forever).  Now I can afford just about any car I want, but at 79.7 I don't have the time left to tie up $40-60,000.  What I need to do more is save for a very uncertain future.  That said, I'm still looking.  The KING is out there this month (way out there), but now my wife is sick, and I'm not so sure about myself.  I've been through Cancer once already.  So now that I can afford most of what I want, it's become fear of the future.

[Joe in Canada]

1 hour ago, vermontboy said:

. Perhaps you don't remember when foreign investors came over and bought up all the 59 Cadillacs and Roadrunners they could find - prices soared ten fold. And then, they came back down. 

What is an outrageous price in todays antique car market? Will this category of cars prices fall also? What is a reasonable price to drop to and a scary thought if they do fall from favor?  https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/06/05/ferrari-250-gto-sells-for-70-million-becomes-worlds-most-expensive-car/?refer=news#comments-block

Edited June 5, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[Grimy]

One of our important resources is TIME.  Another is that of skills we already have.  Because time was at a premium during my work years with demanding hours and frequent business travel, I focused on acquiring decent, running vehicles which could be improved incrementally with limited time and funds.  That means "older restorations," not-quite-finished restorations, and "lost-interest" cars.  I learned early that a running car will get you to work on it for 2 hours after dinner and half-days on Saturday/Sunday, whereas --unless you are extremely disciplined--a major project will be deferred until you have two weeks of vacation.

 

As others have alluded, Return on Investment should not be the primary determinant.  If your passion is golf or boating, the vast majority of your "investment" is lost as the price of enjoyment, and few golfers or boaters mourn that.  You've already seen older guys like myself address, very eloquently, the need to ENJOY your chosen passion while you are still at full physical capability.

[Dynaflash8]

I always just wanted to break even on my restoration and have fun.  I wanted to participate at the National level and not be embarrassed, and win if I could.  Parts and restoration soared to unheard of levels, and I kept up.  I finally got there with a National Award Winner after many Senior winners and some nominations.  Then I got sick and I realized that $75,000 investment could not be left on my wife of nearly 60 years at the time, sitting in the garage.  I knew she would need the money, especially since my retirement pension would be cut by 45%.  So, I put it up for auction and that was a rip-off.  Then I sold it to a dealer for nearly a $25,000 loss.  But, I breathed a sigh of relief because it was gone.  It has passed through several dealers now, and it's still out there being offered for less than my investment.  Luckily, at least for now I've survived that illness, but it could always come back.  Yet, I'm working on another car now that will be worth less than I have in it, but not in those kind of figures.  I've owned every kind of car I've ever really wanted except a 1949 Buick Riviera and I'm not going there.  But, I'd like to go back and get another 1941 Buick Limited, in my opinion the King of Buicks.  I can, even right now, but then I'd have $80,000+ in the garage all over again (with the one I'm doing now now).  Would I leave that Limited alone even?  No, I can't abide paint and chrome flaws.....I've been doing this since 1955 and I doubt I'll change now.  My best bet is to put that Limited into my past memory book and leave it there.  I wonder if I can do that?  I take my wife to big hospital today for determination of what to do with here serious illness, and I don't know where I am at.  Yet, old cars is a worse disease.  I'm afraid I will try to go back and retrieve something I lost in the past, and suffer and/or make my family suffer as a result.  I suppose to many here $80,000 is next to nothing, but remember, I go back to the days when $800 would buy that same Limited.

[1912Staver]

I know I am a broken record on this topic, however the fact remains that for average Canadians the old car cost factor is a serious obstacle. Every transaction has two sides, the price and the ability to pay.  If one looks at U.S. prices from a Canadian prospective then the U.S. selling price is only the tip of the iceberg. Add on transportation , fees and taxes at the border, inspection fees once imported in order to register it in Canada, and pay for all with the good old Canadian Peso. The final cost is significantly higher than what U.S. old car guys need to pay for a similar car. And looking for a car in Canada has it's own problems. Yes it is possible to find an old car for sale in Canada . However the price on anything decent is often adjusted upward to the point where it is relatively unaffordable to a Canadian, the intent of the seller is usually to attract an American buyer who by virtue of his more powerful dollar will be still getting a cost effective purchase.

  And there are simply quite a bit fewer old cars surviving in Canada. Especially ones that are in or close to being in usable condition. Canada's climate has reduced the survivors over the decades.   I am always amazed by how many viable old car starting point offerings I see at the larger Pacific Coast swap meets such as Portland Ore.  I simply never see anything like the quantity, quality  and variety of cars at Canadian swap meets or other old car events. And the prices always seem quite reasonable until you do the quick 1.5-1.75 multiplication of the price to arrive at the price of said car sitting in your Canadian driveway.

 I do however strongly support the suggestion that the would be old car owner join their local club as long as there is one in their area. It might seem a bit intimidating approaching something like old car club membership when one does not actually own an old car however you will generally fit right in as long as you share the passion behind the old car hobby.

 The final hurdle and the second part of the purchase situation is the ability to pay. The simple fact is that apples to apples Canadians in general have smaller incomes and a higher cost of living than equivalent career U.S. counterparts.  That leaves us with a much smaller "disposable income" fund in which to pay for our hobby.  And like it or not it does have an effect on the fun factor one derives from the hobby. The reason I say this is that it reduces the range of old car's within reach to the true bottom of the barrel choices unless you are inordinately patient and can wait several years for extremely fortunate offering from a fellow club member. It can all lead to a general sense of frustration and eventual disillusionment with the hobby in general.

 I don't personally support the notion that the bottom is going to totally drop out of the old car market within the next 10 years. Yes it will change , however I see it as a gradual softening rather than a collapse. Old cars can be a lot of fun, and if prices do drop off a bit there might be a bit of hope for us "average " means old car people.

 Matt, I agree totally that time is impossible to get, however for many money is only just slightly easier.

Greg in Canada

Edited June 5, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[poci1957]

Hi PrewarQc, your observations on the old car market echo many I have noticed myself as a younger gen X hobbyist who admires prewar cars.  But I think I have a little optimism to share with you.

 

It is obvious that we have a gap in the old car world between advertised asking prices and actual transaction prices.  This is not new of course; we have always had those who will quote a wild price hoping to catch someone asleep or set a high starting point for negotiating.  Unfortunately this mindset has been enhanced by cable TV shows showing wild prices that get people’s expectations for ordinary cars out of line.

 

Again, that is all nothing new.  What has changed in the last 30 years is that the hobbyist of the 1980s had no doubt that theirs was a good investment that would always appreciate and never lose value.  In their world virtually all antique cars had increased in value since the 1960s right along with their income, property values and standard of living.  Obviously that has now changed as you accurately have pointed out.  Many average old cars HAVE lost value as the pool of buyers has diminished, but this just makes for an opportunity for you. 

 

When I say average what I mean is a middle class old car.  Not a Full Classic (although some of them qualify) or a brass car which is of limited use for a family man wanting to drive it around.  So let’s say you would like a car like a Model A or maybe a late 1930s/early 1940s sedan with hydraulic brakes and ability to drive 55 on a two lane highway.  Many of these were restored in the 1970s and early 1980s and gently used after that then (hopefully) stored inside after the owner aged out of his driving years.  There should be plenty of these in the U.S and Canada.  In some cases the owner is stubbornly holding on waiting to get his asking price but as he ages he (or his family or estate) will eventually have to give in to the market and sell for whatever it will bring TODAY.  You just need to be ready and available when this happens.

 

So how do you do that?  As others have pointed out get in a club where you can interact with other enthusiasts.  Do not worry that they are competition, your old car friends are usually useful as spotters for you rather than competitors for cars.  Local old car people are big gossips who know where cars are and love to talk about them.  National old car people often are willing to sell an honest car at an honest price to someone else in the club rather than on Craigslist or Ebay (note the AACA club magazine always has ads like this).  Also, note Grimy’s comments above on getting a running car rather than a project.  

 

So join in with other people and spend some time learning about what kind of car you might like, parts and technical availability, etc, and make yourself educated enough to recognize a car and a deal when they come your way.  These quiet private transactions have always been where the best real world old cars change hands among people who care about them.  AND this will help protect your investment as a car you bought from a 30 year owner who cared for it will have optimum resale potential if necessary.  Good luck to you, Todd C

       

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by poci1957 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I have been enjoying old cars for over 50 years. I have been lucky enough to drive many more than I have owned. A lot of those cars I dreamed about didn't fit me as well as the ones I have owned. I never spent a lot of money on them and quite a few didn't meet my expectations and got sold shortly after the purchase. When you mention a car that has been stored for 40 years, remember, the owner bought that at 40 year ago prices. Buy them cheap, keep them, and live long. You will prosper.

 

You won't get a lot of people to tell you how much their car cost them, some unwritten code I never figured out.

 

I bought my '60 Electra on Ebay in '02 for $850. It wasn't running and I was planning to part it out until it got shipped to my house. I guess I have spent about $600- 800 per year and not done any body work. I bought my '86 Park Ave convertible for $500 in '11, not running, 600 miles away, and unseen. I would guess the average at $1,000 per year to do all the stuff.

In '12 I bought a '94 Impala SS, a very nice example, for $9,000. It will never have to be restored and, if I want, it can be on the Hershey show field soon.

Spending power-wise, purchasing my '64 Riviera for $2,000 (either 1900 or 2100, I forgot) in 1978 was a real reach.

In between there have been a whole bunch of similar cars and deals. I have always had something I liked and was different enough to be noticed. I have no recollection of feeling deprived of opportunities to enjoy the hobby or frustration over something I couldn't attain.

 

I average about 1200 miles per year on the '60 Electra, that's in a part of the country where we burned up our three days of summer last week. I don't think I would be inclined to take the long rides we do in a '30's car, just the view around the four spindly roof supports makes it nicer. As the '60 nears 60 years old, that's about old enough for me at this time. And, in March, I bought a 15 year old BMW large sedan for $7200 that my Wife and I have been grabbing for rides over the '60 Buick. I called the dealership that sold it new in Medford Or. It went out the door for $123,000, lost a lot of street value but it sure drives nice. To me it is like riding in a Packard Super Clipper or a Fleetwood of WWII vintage. I just like cars.

Bernie

Edited June 5, 2018 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[46 woodie]

As others have pointed out there are probably a lot of economical entry level pre war vehicles available. The fact that you are located in Canada can possibly affect the cost though. Some of the cars you mention, RIO and Essex are going to be more expensive. In the latest Model A magazines there are several cars that look to be in nice shape for around $10K. Now, as for your question as to why some people are hard nosed and stick to an unreasonable asking price. I think all the auction and other type car shows that are on TV have hurt the hobby. How many times have we all heard that "my 1955 Chevy four door that needs work is worth $50,000", I saw one on TV just like it". Well the one you saw on TV was a '55 Chevy Nomad or '55 Convertible fully restored. Another reason is that sometimes people put a lot more money into a car than it is really worth. People always tend to think what they have is worth a lot more than it really is. I once looked at a  1959 T Bird that was sunk in the mud. Rotted floors, every panel had about 4" of rust and the interior was a sea of mildew. A parts car at best. The owner did not want to sell the car because he said that someday, when he does sell it, "it is going to put his grand kids thru college". You can't argue with that mentality.

[Matt Harwood]

Most old cars, bought right, will always be worth about what you paid for them. Most aren't going up, but most aren't cratering, either. Yes, if you paid $100,000 for a '57 Chevy, you're going to get stung. But if you buy a $15,000 Model A today, it will probably be worth $15,000 in 10 years. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less, but it's not going to suddenly be worthless. Some cars will struggle to sell--I suspect that Pontiac I have will be tough to sell but sooner or later someone will buy it and enjoy it and will eventually be able to sell it for about the same amount. 

It's a mistake to assume that nobody will want this stuff. Someone will always own the cars. The Baby Boomers who drove the market are aging out and they're going to take the biggest beating. Prices will correct themselves. But the pre-war orphans that aren't Packards and Cadillacs have already been corrected. You can probably safely buy those without fear of losing everything. Just don't assume that you're going to be banking 10% per year, either. What you paid, plus or minus 10%. That's a reasonable expectation for 80% of the old cars out there.

 

Get in and swim, let the future take care of itself. We might all be consumed by a giant nuclear fireball in the next few weeks and then it's moot. In the meantime, I'm driving my old cars with a big maniacal grin on my face, money be damned.

[Rusty_OToole]

In a private email the OP told me he is not interested in a car that needs work, none at all. So what he is looking for is an 80+ year old car in perfect condition, for half the going rate. And can't figure out why anyone who owns such a car, won't sell it to him . But is willing to wait until we all die or get Alzheimer's so he can pick up our cars cheap.

 

Seems fair.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

7 hours ago, PreWarQc said:

 

I'm pretty sure its missing a 0. They have a website?

 

 

Agreed, I do sometimes see good deals in the states but I sadly have to add 30% to the asking price plus shipping; I'm in Canada.

 

If you haven't looked it up already, it's what you'd expect, autoroundup.com. 

 

If you want Canadian, get some friends or family together for a road trip to Saskatchewan. Mack Auction Co.(Estevan, SK) has two auctions in S.E. SK, the Gervais Family Farm Wheels Museum Auction in Alida 8/4/18; and the Rose Hansen Antique Auto Auction  in Glen Ewen 9/15/18. The first one has about 24 prewar cars & the second about 15. If you look up the auction Co. web-site you'll find pics of the cars. Everything from rough cheap cars to fixed-up expensive ones. Who doesn't want to go to Saskatchewan?

 

I guess you could look closer to home.....but it may be awhile before these kind of sales of these kinds of cars come up in your county. Like Buffalowed Bill says above, there are lots of cars out there. If you were looking for something easy -- like Chevrolet Corvettes or 2003-2005 Ford Thunderbirds(all of which seem to be for sale) -- you'd just pick your color. You'll have a harder job with pre-1946 cars: with most, only 1-in-1000 have survived wearing out/junkyards/wrecks.

[1912Staver]

I don't see anything at the Rose Hanson sale I would be too interested in. The Gervais sale has a couple that look intriguing. The Case in particular. Trouble is a 2000 mile round trip with a truck and trailer , strictly on spec. that a reasonably priced purchase MIGHT happen is a bit of a non- starter for me. Auctions are funny, there might be deal's aplenty , and every sold hammer price might leave many in disbelief.  It just depends who shows up.

 Western Canada is a big place, and gas is at present very expensive. Probably a interesting road trip, however not so certain as to a cost effective source for a new  , old car.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited June 5, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Lahti35]

I had a lot of trouble finding a prewar touring car in my budget, saw some cools cars but they were all priced 40%-100% over similar sales for condition and the sellers are just frustratingly dead set on their inflated values. Finally gave up after a few months and starting looking into Model T's... There's some crazy prices out there on the later T's, heard the usual seller stuff but those cars I saw are still sitting for sale... no one wants to pay 50% over market for a older restoration 1919-27.  Luckily there are a bunch of fairly priced T's out there and I have narrowed the search quickly so I should be cruising soon. Viva La T! 

[Buffalowed Bill]

This is for my Canadian friends, but could apply to US car people as well. I realize that most of the cars that were in the Ratsoy collection, are not what P/WQc is referring, but still a mystery how that collection escaped to China. 

[1912Staver]

47 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

This is for my Canadian friends, but could apply to US car people as well. I realize that most of the cars that were in the Ratsoy collection, are not what P/WQc is referring, but still a mystery how that collection escaped to China. 

I don't think there is any mystery at all. Someone from China was willing to pay a top $ price for a large bulk collection.  As has been discussed at length on these forums , the collection was no bargain; some interesting cars , however many somewhat ordinary ones as well . And a all or nothing deal , at full retail.

 How do you think the Chinese have ended up owning so much prime Canadian Real Estate? They simply have a lot more money than the majority of Canadian's and buy as they please.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited June 5, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

To Matt's point best way to assure your investment is buy condition and model, but if your on a budget, something like that Pontiac could be a heck of a deal.  A little different yet not so exotic you cant keep it on the road.

 

Now some may disagree but this is a case where the premium of a dealer could be well worth it.  Better dealers wont put up junk, basic servicing is done, a selection and chance to try a few different cars out, and help with logistics are all value adds.  While it seems counterintuitive to go to a traditionally more expensive path than a private sale, the value adds might make the process easier, especially for a first timer who wants to be careful how they are spending.  Dealers can at times be more realistic than owners who are reluctant sellers.  That seems to br OP's concern.  Something to think about...

 

Just another opinion but when looking long term, i think prices of 50s, 60s will be a bigger drop as the supply is much higher.  Collectors who go out of the car of your youth starting point will have tons of them to choose from.  That would not dissuade me from buying one if I wanted it, but I think that is the next logical shift in the market.  

Edited June 5, 2018 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Vintageben]

Hmm I agree some pre-war cars still demand high prices and as always there are few out there that think their vehicles are worth a whole lot more then they are, when you come across one of those do as I do keep walking. As for me I think many pre 1930 cars are becoming more affordable and I'm really happy with this yeah sure some may lose money on them and heck that may include myself, am I worried about this, not really it's a hobby not a investment.Well actually it is kinda a investment, a investment in my sanity. I should say at this point I'm just on the edge between gen x and gen y and in Australia don't know that may change my point of view on things oh I also grew up on a farm and I'm still farming now which I'm sure helps when playing with vintage cars. But what I must say is that I have always loved vintage and veteran cars, at about 12 I was trying to restore a 1922 T Ford and a friend said they were sure I would have a running car by age 20 I thought this was unlikely at the time but boy was I wrong at age 16 I sold the T and bought a older resto 27 Chev. Oh yeah I had to work most of my holidays to buy it but hey I had fallen in love. 

The cars when on the back burner for a few years while I was away at college but when I finished and got a job I was back into it, friends often questioned how I could afford the cars as I was not on big money but I held down two jobs and didn't drink or smoke. Fast forward to now and I have 3 pre 1930 cars on the road and a few project cars in the shed oh yeah and I did find women as well as the cars so I'm married with kids now, yeah sure the cars probably don't get as much attention as before but I still get to play around with them and yeah I'm probably earning more money then when I was in my early 20's but I'm not worth a fortune but I do do most of the work on my cars myself which is a huge saving. Anyway what I'm trying to say is if you really really want a pre war car you will find a way and yeah it might not be Rolls Royce but it will be yours. P.s another word of advice one should choose a very very tolerant wife that is huge help too?

[MCHinson]

8 hours ago, PreWarQc said:

 

I actually did not post this thread to seek an immediate solution for not having an (old) car. What I wanted was to understand why older guys refuse to lower their price when their car won't sell and why do they prefer to keep their car and watch them deteriorate. As I said, it is none of my buisness what people want to do with their property but I'm interested in understanding the behavior and I also want to point out the consequences of this behavior.

I don't really care about the money. If I knew they would keep their value (or even lose a bit), I would buy one today! The problem is, and this is why I refuse to buy one now, is that I know buyers will be extremely rare in the next 5 - 10 years and the prices will completely collapse. I mean, I love those cars but I'm not in the position where I can buy something 20-30k and see it reduced to barely nothing. Millennials and x's will not be buying those cars in big enough numbers to keep the prices up... and soon they will be the bulk of the potential buyers.

 

But to answer your question, I am looking for anything from that era. I'm passionate about them more than any other year because my view of the world is more closely related to the pre war society than to the present state of the world. The political world of those days, the social context and cohesion. The world before the war was better in my sense (not perfect) but better. I'm french-Canadian but the American model of government and society of those days is what I relate to the most; free market, small government, freedom and prosperity. I also prefer the style of the days... the attention to detail, the smell. So any car between 1900 and 1942 would be just fine.

 

 

 

The economic reality of families today is quite different and have nothing to do with the past. Yes luxury items are less expensive be it tv's, computers, cars... but houses, food, education; all the basic goods are more expensive than in the past and when you add them up, there is not a lot left even if you have a high income. You can choose not to buy a new TV but you have no choice to buy when it comes to housing, food and education. Today you have to be very conservative if you want to be able to put money aside for retirement, pay your mortgage and raise kids with enough resources to make them productive members of the society. Most young people are swimming in debt and will be doing so much of their lives, I don't want to follow that path so I'm on a tight budget. As I said... I have enough money to buy most cars but not enough to see its value decline year after year for the next decades.

 

 

 

There is no soul searching to be made. I've own a few antique/collector cars in the past 20 years from Air cooled VW's to a 1950's Hudson Hornet to a 60's Ford and a Hemi Dodge. I've enjoyed them all and when I needed to sell them to finance important projets I never had trouble. Presently I need to be more careful with money for many reasons but I can still afford something nice but it must retain most of its value in the years to come, this is the most important prerequisite. I don't have a crystal ball, but I strongly doubt pre war cars will hold most of their value in the coming years.

 

 

 

I have no debt except for mortgage and I plan on keeping it this way... And yes, financing a 40k pickup is not the way to go, I agree.

 

 

I might be wrong but from what I saw online, antique cars were much cheaper before the mid 90's...

 

 

I agree, unfulfilled dreams are part of life and one as to be in peace with that fact that some might never be realised.

 

 

 

Your initial post made it appear that you were seriously looking for an affordable decent pre-war car. This post makes it clear that you simply think that if you wait, the market will drop and you will pick one up for a fraction of their current cost. While demographics would indicate that buyers will not be as quick to find when the baby boom generation is out of their prime antique auto buying period, history would tend to indicate that your assumptions that nobody will be interested in prewar cars and the market will plummet are incorrect. I know more people in their  20's and 30's now who are interested in and have purchased pre-war cars than was the case when I was in my 30's. I think that if you decide to wait for the prices to fall super low, you will probably never own a pre-war car.  

 

[Matt Harwood]

3 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

 

Your initial post made it appear that you were seriously looking for an affordable decent pre-war car. This post makes it clear that you simply think that if you wait, the market will drop and you will pick one up for a fraction of their current cost. While demographics would indicate that buyers will not be as quick to find when the baby boom generation is out of their prime antique auto buying period, history would tend to indicate that your assumptions that nobody will be interested in prewar cars and the market will plummet are incorrect. I know more people in their  20's and 30's now who are interested in and have purchased pre-war cars than was the case when I was in my 30's. I think that if you decide to wait for the prices to fall super low, you will probably never own a pre-war car.  

 

 

Like I said--sitting and waiting for perfect conditions is a great way to have no time left and time is the only thing you can't replace. Some people never learn this lesson and treat money as precious and time as infinite and worthless.

[CarNucopia]

I've made the same observation as the OP. I was looking for a '38 Buick and found the prices high and the condition not reflecting how the cars were described.

 

The most common circumstance was that of a child selling the car for a deceased father's estate. The price was based on what dad had been telling them for years and included the notion that it was "rare". The condition was also based on what it was previously, a decade earlier when dad could still maintain it. As dad's capacity to care for the car faded, so did the car.

 

I agree with the OP that pre-war cars will not have a big following in ten years and that the values will continue to go down. I bring my '30 Buick and my '91 Figaro to cruise nights. The Fig gets 10X the attention from young people. The Buick gets interest from their grandparents. The folks on here who have spent 50 years in the hobby are fortunate that, for the most part, prices always went up. You could play with a car for a while, do a little work, and get your money back out. Those days are gone for Pre-War cars. When sellers outnumber buyers, prices drop. Given the demographics I see at events, this is unavoidable. The OP is being smart in treating what he buys as a depreciating asset and looking for a deal. I'd suggest watching for no reserve auctions. I've seen some good values cross the block.

 

Good luck in your search. Owning a Pre-War car is really enjoyable.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Buick64C (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

There are some really great buys on 1930's pickups out there. Pickups from the 30's have great styling Dodge, Hudson, Ford, Plymouth and Studebakers can be found at good buy in prices. Even some sedan deliveries can be found at good prices, and some have the same styling as the cars you are looking at. You can also advertise that you are looking for an unfinished project car. a ton of half built/restored cars are sitting in buildings with an owner saying he was going to finish the car when his kids moved out. His kids now are coming up on retirement, might be time to sell the car. Just have to do some looking around, ask some questions and post a few pictures on this site before you buy. You will get good advise and a little BS (we can not help ourselves)    

 

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, Vintageben said:

but I held down two jobs and didn't drink or smoke. Fast forward to now and I have 3 pre 1930 cars on the road and a few project cars in the shed oh yeah and I did find women as well as the cars so I'm married with kids now, yeah sure the cars probably don't get as much attention as before but I still get to play around with them and yeah I'm probably earning more money then when I was in my early 20's but I'm not worth a fortune but I do do most of the work on my cars myself which is a huge saving. Anyway what I'm trying to say is if you really really want a pre war car you will find a way and yeah it might not be Rolls Royce

 

Three deadly sins; drink, smoke, and buy a Rolls-Royce. Phew! If not for the coaching of a good friend I would have bought a Rolls-Royce.

[alsancle]

I want Ed Minnie to chime in on Springfield Rolls Royce.  For years all I heard from him was that you had to avoid them.  Now after he spends some time driving a couple he thinks they are the greatest prewar American car built.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Here is a Rolls Royce to avoid, 1 of just 8 built.   https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/d/1931-rolls-royce-replica-hot/6582757579.html

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Here is a Rolls Royce to avoid, 1 of just 8 built.   https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/d/1931-rolls-royce-replica-hot/6582757579.html

 

 

"Built in Philippines in 60's"

The apogee of industrial revolution technology. 

[alsancle]

That might be what Ed has been talking about.

[Paul Dobbin]

23 hours ago, edinmass said:

t work to keep you nose to the grindstone to get what you want. The cars are out there.......how many clu

 

14 hours ago, PreWarQc said:

 

Agreed, I do sometimes see good deals in the states but I sadly have to add 30% to the asking price plus shipping; I'm in Canada.

    The old saying that "the grass is always greener in the other side of the fence" applies here.

    I see ads in Canada that look good to me.  In fact the last car I bought was in Canada.

     The easiest car to own and  get parks for is the Model A Ford  (28-31)   There are many bargains on

      them and plenty of support from their active clubs.   Let us know what you are looking for and price

      range.  Then we'll see how serious/reasonable your search criteria is.  Restored or in need of a                total restoration has a tremendous effect too.

[1912Staver]

28 minutes ago, Paul Dobbin said:

 

    The old saying that "the grass is always greener in the other side of the fence" applies here.

    I see ads in Canada that look good to me.  In fact the last car I bought was in Canada.

     The easiest car to own and  get parks for is the Model A Ford  (28-31)   There are many bargains on

      them and plenty of support from their active clubs.   Let us know what you are looking for and price

      range.  Then we'll see how serious/reasonable your search criteria is.  Restored or in need of a                total restoration has a tremendous effect too.

I have plenty of cross border market condition experience. I live about 3 miles from Washington State and I am in the U.S. at least twice a month.  In my experience the U.S. old car hobby cost for someone earning a middle class income and living in the U.S. is noticeably less than the Canadian cost for a Canadian car for someone earning Canadian middle class wages and experiencing the Canadian cost of living.

 Here in Canada middle class earners have very little disposable income after paying for the basics of life. And I am not talking about a new phone every year or two and $70,000.00 pick up truck life styles. Just food, shelter and clothing. It all costs quite a bit more than in the majority of locations in the U.S. And generally the shelter costs a great deal more unless you are looking at SanFran or New York city.  Once you get away from common place cars like Model A Fords, sedans, Chevy's , Plymouths etc. the old car pickings are slim in Canada.  There are nice car's in Canada however they are often quite expensive simply due to the relative rarity. There are plenty of wealthy people in Canada, however Canada's middle class is generally closer to the brink than the Middle class in the U.S.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited June 6, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[PreWarQc]

11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

You are lamenting that there are no more cheap pre-war cars and that prices are "insane," but I think part of the problem is your definitions of "insane" and "cheap." There are no more nice Model As in the farmer's barn for $25. There have been multiple demonstrations of good cars for what, today, is not a lot of money, yet even those are "too expensive" for you. I don't know what your criteria are or your budget situation, but it looks to me like the problem isn't a dearth of cars but rather a significant disconnect between reality and fantasy. You're not going to get much car for $5000, and certainly not a ready-to-go car that won't need some work. You probably also can't buy a move-in condition house for $35,000. Or a lobster dinner for $5. You live in Montreal, that's an expensive place to live, but that situation should also have recalibrated your sense of value to something in line with 2018 rather than 1968.

 

Why lecture me that way as if I knew nothing? I’m far from being disconnected from reality… you’ve got some nerve man… I’ve owned many antique cars in the last 20 years and I’m far from being ignorant on the subject. I never stated I wanted a ready to run 5000$ car or a 25$ farmer’s barn model A, I know houses are not 35k and I know a lobster dinner isn’t 5$... this is quite insulting. Why some of you guys on the forum have the tendency to write thing in my stead as if I really think those things or as if you know my thoughts or intentions. You also decided that I lived in Montreal and that my expenses were high so I must ‘’recalibrate my sense of value’’… you have no idea about who I am and what my condition is so I’m really curious as to why you give yourself permission to write pretty much anything that goes true your head? Again, I asked a simple question ‘’why are pre war cars so expensive’’ and no one gave me a direct answer.

 

11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Or you can sit on the sidelines and do nothing and bemoan that the world has treated you unfairly and how you wish it was like the good old days. But the bottom line is this: Money is relatively easy to get. Time is impossible.

 

 

I will simply buy something more recent, its that simple, and it will still be a lot of fun. As I have already stated, I’ve owned air cooled VW’s, a Hudson Hornet, Hemi Dodge, 60’s Ford… and I will continue to own other interesting cars without any doubt. Pre war will simply be put in the back of my mind and slowly fade away if the prices don't come down. I’ve never been on the sidelines and I’ve never complained the world has treated me unfairly and I never will so I don’t quite understand why you are stating this. This is ridiculous.

[PreWarQc]

7 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

In a private email the OP told me he is not interested in a car that needs work, none at all. So what he is looking for is an 80+ year old car in perfect condition, for half the going rate. And can't figure out why anyone who owns such a car, won't sell it to him . But is willing to wait until we all die or get Alzheimer's so he can pick up our cars cheap.

 

Seems fair.

 

I simply stated that I’m not interested in buying and restoring your car. A car that needs work is not quite the same as a complete restoration. But above all things why do you try to slander me like this... This is far from being adequate and mature behavior on your part. Are you 10 years old, seriously? I asked the community if they knew why the prices of pre war cars were so high and your first reply was to try and sell me your car… I’m not impressed.

 

 

[maok]

6 minutes ago, PreWarQc said:

sorry posted the wrong quote.

Edited June 6, 2018 by maok (see edit history)

[maok]

11 minutes ago, PreWarQc said:

 

Why lecture me that way as if I knew nothing? I’m far from being disconnected from reality… you’ve got some nerve man… I’ve owned many antique cars in the last 20 years and I’m far from being ignorant on the subject. I never stated I wanted a ready to run 5000$ car or a 25$ farmer’s barn model A, I know houses are not 35k and I know a lobster dinner isn’t 5$... this is quite insulting. Why some of you guys on the forum have the tendency to write thing in my stead as if I really think those things or as if you know my thoughts or intentions. You also decided that I lived in Montreal and that my expenses were high so I must ‘’recalibrate my sense of value’’… you have no idea about who I am and what my condition is so I’m really curious as to why you give yourself permission to write pretty much anything that goes true your head? Again, I asked a simple question ‘’why are pre war cars so expensive’’ and no one gave me a direct answer.

 

 

 

I will simply buy something more recent, its that simple, and it will still be a lot of fun. As I have already stated, I’ve owned air cooled VW’s, a Hudson Hornet, Hemi Dodge, 60’s Ford… and I will continue to own other interesting cars without any doubt. Pre war will simply be put in the back of my mind and slowly fade away if the prices don't come down. I’ve never been on the sidelines and I’ve never complained the world has treated me unfairly and I never will so I don’t quite understand why you are stating this. This is ridiculous.

 

I think the community is saying that you are wrong in your assessment that pre-war cars are expensive. They have given examples of value cars for sale. But the term, 'value', is very subjective. Every Tom, Dick and Sally has their own belief of 'value'.

[PreWarQc]

3 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

Your initial post made it appear that you were seriously looking for an affordable decent pre-war car. This post makes it clear that you simply think that if you wait, the market will drop and you will pick one up for a fraction of their current cost.

 

Well no, this is not what I think nor is it what I wrote... I simply posted here with the intention of understanding why the prices were so high and be informed about what justifies it by having a discussion about it. I had some good and pertinent replies but they were few, most were an attempt to egocentrically sell me their car or lecture me about why I’m wrong without any arguments to back their comment. I am also encouraged to ‘’live life’’ by spending money without putting any thought into it. So I’m leaving this forum with no answer and a bad impression of the pre war community… its not quite what I imagined it to be.

 

3 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

While demographics would indicate that buyers will not be as quick to find when the baby boom generation is out of their prime antique auto buying period, history would tend to indicate that your assumptions that nobody will be interested in prewar cars and the market will plummet are incorrect. I know more people in their  20's and 30's now who are interested in and have purchased pre-war cars than was the case when I was in my 30's. I think that if you decide to wait for the prices to fall super low, you will probably never own a pre-war car. 

 

As I have mentioned, I have been to many meets with my previous cars and I have never seen a guy under 65 with a pre 1942 car. I know a guy who knows someone in his 20’s who has a Model T but it was after his grand father passed away and he got it true his estate, I don’t think he still has it. When I had my Hudson Hornet I would meet with guys with 50’s car and at that time I was 33… No one was near my age. The youngest guy was in his late 50’s. I don’t mind being with older people but to pretend that young guys are numerous in being interested in pre war (even pre 70’s) car is not being honest. Of course, there are some... but not nearly enough to keep the prices up in the long run.

 

[39BuickEight]

Here we go again.  Someone starts a thread, gets opinions and answers from experts—answers they don’t like—and instead of simply considering the information and moving on, they get defensive.  

Edited June 6, 2018 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

13 minutes ago, PreWarQc said:

 

As I have mentioned, I have been to many meets with my previous cars and I have never seen a guy under 65 with a pre 1942 car. I know a guy who knows someone in his 20’s who has a Model T but it was after his grand father passed away and he got it true his estate, I don’t think he still has it. When I had my Hudson Hornet I would meet with guys with 50’s car and at that time I was 33… No one was near my age. The youngest guy was in his late 50’s. I don’t mind being with older people but to pretend that young guys are numerous in being interested in pre war (even pre 70’s) car is not being honest. Of course, there are some... but not nearly enough to keep the prices up in the long run.

 

 

 

Either you are going to the wrong types of meets or you live in the wrong place. I am under 65 and have owned pre-war cars for over two decades. I have lots of friends who are older and most of them own later antique cars. I know multiple local people younger than me who own pre-war cars here. Maybe you just need to move to the Southeastern United States. To accuse me of "not being honest" based only on the hobbyists you have seen in your particular part of Canada is really a very bad way to try to get people to respond positively to your thoughts. The world is a lot bigger place than you seem to realize. Things are not the same everywhere. 

[PreWarQc]

11 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Here we go again.  Someone starts a thread, gets opinions and answers from experts—answers they don’t like—and instead of simply considering the information and moving on, they get defensive.  

 

Wrong... I wanted a discussion, not unidirectional comments with no substance from ''experts''. Or guys trying to sell me their cars.

 

[Matt Harwood]

Wow. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

 

However, you earned it. People showed you examples of cars that disproved your theory, you said they were too expensive and you complained repeatedly that sellers were not reasonable and were not being realistic regarding market values. I merely suggested that it was perhaps you who had the perception problem.

 

You told another poster that you wanted a nice pre-war car with no needs at $5000, which isn't likely. You mentioned the other cars that you have owned after I posted, so I didn't see the extent of your collection. Until that point, you were acting like a newcomer with no previous knowledge (or a troll, which isn't unprecedented around here). If you are the experienced hobbyist you are claiming to be, you wouldn't be wondering the things you're wondering. Why are Hemi Coronets so expensive when I could buy one in 1973 for $500? Gas is getting expensive, so my theory is that Hemi Coronets will get less expensive because nobody will want them. These are variations of your reasoning and they are just as flawed. If I presented them to this crowd and whinged about my inability to own one at current prices, I would expect more knowledgeable people to point out my error.

 

I thought I saw you say you lived in Montreal. I didn't assume, I thought I read it. Apologies there, I was mistaken. I certainly didn't mean to imply anything by it other than pointing out that you should understand that stuff costs money and some things cost more than others. Where you live makes little difference, but my thought was that if you lived in Montreal, you'd understand the relationship between value and price and that it's not a straight dollar proposition. (EDIT: Your location under your name says "Montreal")

 

Regardless of any of this, you acted like you were bewildered by inflation and stymied by a lack of funds, and wanted to whine about it rather than do something. My point (and others') was simply that sitting on your hands and doing nothing while the clock ticks away is a great way to live your life full of frustration and regret. Treating money like it's more important than time is common, but still sad. I don't know you and I spent more time caring about your situation than I should have. After the first few replies, I decided you were just another troll trying to wind us up. 

 

Enjoy the hobby any way you like. But don't tell us that things are too expensive when your budget is isn't realistic in the 2018 market. Value is subjective, true, but once again, the chances of finding a perfect pre-war car for under $5000 are pretty slim and that makes your assertions unrealistic. Sitting on the sidelines and whiling away the years hoping that your theory that nobody will want them and prices will drop is counter-productive if you're serious about owning a pre-war car. But go ahead, you be you, bro. Once again, a Quebecois lives up to the stereotype. Nice job.

 

Bottom line: if you're going to come in and treat us like chumps, don't expect us to like it. Welcome to the ignore list.

 

PS: I'm 48 and have owned my 1941 Buick since I was 31 and my 1929 Cadillac since I was 40. I did not inherit them or fall accidentally into them. I have wanted them since I was a child and I do not aspire to own post-war cars. I suspect I am not alone. Someone will always own the cars. Someone else will want to to buy them.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[PreWarQc]

36 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

 

Either you are going to the wrong types of meets or you live in the wrong place. I am under 65 and have owned pre-war cars for over two decades. I have lots of friends who are older and most of them own later antique cars. I know multiple local people younger than me who own pre-war cars here. Maybe you just need to move to the Southeastern United States. To accuse me of "not being honest" based only on the hobbyists you have seen in your particular part of Canada is really a very bad way to try to get people to respond positively to your thoughts. The world is a lot bigger place than you seem to realize. Things are not the same everywhere. 

 

You might be right up to a certain point as in I am willing to believe more young guys own pre 42 cars than I think in other areas, but I am sure they are not numerous enough to make a significant difference on the overall market. And ''not being honest'' was not the way I wanted to phrase that but my english is far from being perfect and I made a mistake in the translation... so I am sorry. I tought it was more on the lines of ''not being realistic'' the way I phrased it but I see my mistake.

 

I came here hoping to have my mind made up to buy a pre war by getting arguments about why these cars will retain a good portion of their value in the long term but instead it seems like it gave me the opposite drive. I think I'll get back in the Air-cooled VW or something like that...

Good luck y'all...

Edited June 6, 2018 by PreWarQc
May not be true (see edit history)