scott12180

1932 Packard 902 5-passenger (Victoria) Coupe

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CCCA and Packard Club first place award winning (1986). Older cosmetic restoration done in authentic Midnight Blue and Countess Blue over black running gear.  Attractive and practical body style with disk wheels and rear mounted spare which enhances the car’s unending lines.  Recently rebuilt engine, mechanically sorted and equipped for modern driving with new tires, Arvin heater and an overdrive.  Enjoy Full Classic motoring for far less than the cost of restoration, if a similar car could be found.  $62,500

dwyer12180@gmail.com

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Attractive body style, nice color combo. The license plates are NY; is that the car's location?

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I agree it is a beautiful and probably quite rare body style! What great color combination.  Tastefully restrained use of blacks walls. With the price skyrocketing on the bigger Packards this is the answer to be able to own a senior full classic Packard for a relative bargain. I would be proud to own and drive such a beauty!

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Knew I'd forget something.

Yes, the car is in New York State.  Upstate near Albany, NY (near southwestern Vermont).

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If i knew that the prices for big packards are  skyrocketing i would buy the car in the next minute .I would make more money than to go to work everyday .I would not let slip away such an opportunity .As i said before this is rather for some persons an investment club than a car club .But it hurts to fall on your nose as many people did in the house boom some years ago .But i have to admit its a very nice car .I sold my 32 packard some years ago and still regret it.

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On 5/8/2018 at 1:40 PM, daniel boeve said:

If i knew that the prices for big packards are  skyrocketing i would buy the car in the next minute .I would make more money than to go to work everyday .I would not let slip away such an opportunity .As i said before this is rather for some persons an investment club than a car club .But it hurts to fall on your nose as many people did in the house boom some years ago .But i have to admit its a very nice car .I sold my 32 packard some years ago and still regret it.

 

Do you just show up to whine and complain about car values and tell other people that they're not real hobbyists because they're not buying and selling cheap cars? Have you ever contributed anything to this forum that wasn't a complaint about "investors" and "not proper" hobbyists paying more than you can afford for a car? It is increasingly tiresome to see your comments about how investors are ruining "your" hobby and your snide cheap shots at sellers for asking market-correct prices. Some people can afford to pay more than you can for a car and some cars are more valuable. That doesn't make the people who buy and sell them less of a hobbyist than you. Do you begrudge the man who can afford a Duesenberg? Or is he just an investor wrecking it for all the honest folk, who would otherwise be able to purchase Duesenbergs for $5500 just like they could in 1958? I have a client who owns five or six Duesenbergs, two of which he bought so that he could put three cars right--one had the engine from the other, while the other had the body from the second. He is going to spend astronomical sums of money to make three "bitsa" Duesenbergs into three totally correct Duesenbergs, complete with their original engines and coachwork. Is he less of a hobbyist than you because he can afford to do such things and finds joy in it? What's your great achievement in the hobby, Daniel?

 

This Packard is priced appropriately for what it is. Just because it's out of your range doesn't mean it's not properly priced. Things of value get more valuable over time. That's a real thing that happens. If you think you're still going to find a Model A in a farmer's barn for $15, you're in for a big surprise.  This appears to be a very good car with an unusual and attractive body style that has been properly kept and restored. '32 Packards are some of the most desirable of all '30s cars and anything with fewer than four doors will rightfully rise to the top. This is the market in action, not someone scamming the poor, vulnerable fools with more money than brains.

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Most of us couldn't agree more.  I have heard that investors are wrecking the hobby since I purchased my first car in 1976.  I now have 26 and the hobby still appears healthy to me.  None of them including my V-16's were investments. I am not sure that the increase in valve isn't mainly devaluation of the Dollar. Bob Smits

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I really like this Packard. It appears to have been properly restored but not overly restored. Conservative elegance at its finest. 1932 Packards have great road manners and are a pleasure to drive. I think the price is reasonable and it will likely find a new owner sooner than later. 

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Seller has noted on mtfca forum he might have interest in a partial trade on a nice Model T up to maybe $30k.  Sounds like an earlier brass era quality car might be of interest to him.

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19 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Do you just show up to whine and complain about car values and tell other people that they're not real hobbyists because they're not buying and selling cheap cars? Have you ever contributed anything to this forum that wasn't a complaint about "investors" and "not proper" hobbyists paying more than you can afford for a car? It is increasingly tiresome to see your comments about how investors are ruining "your" hobby and your snide cheap shots at sellers for asking market-correct prices. Some people can afford to pay more than you can for a car and some cars are more valuable. That doesn't make the people who buy and sell them less of a hobbyist than you. Do you begrudge the man who can afford a Duesenberg? Or is he just an investor wrecking it for all the honest folk, who would otherwise be able to purchase Duesenbergs for $5500 just like they could in 1958? I have a client who owns five or six Duesenbergs, two of which he bought so that he could put three cars right--one had the engine from the other, while the other had the body from the second. He is going to spend astronomical sums of money to make three "bitsa" Duesenbergs into three totally correct Duesenbergs, complete with their original engines and coachwork. Is he less of a hobbyist than you because he can afford to do such things and finds joy in it? What's your great achievement in the hobby, Daniel?

 

This Packard is priced appropriately for what it is. Just because it's out of your range doesn't mean it's not properly priced. Things of value get more valuable over time. That's a real thing that happens. If you think you're still going to find a Model A in a farmer's barn for $15, you're in for a big surprise.  This appears to be a very good car with an unusual and attractive body style that has been properly kept and restored. '32 Packards are some of the most desirable of all '30s cars and anything with fewer than four doors will rightfully rise to the top. This is the market in action, not someone scamming the poor, vulnerable fools with more money than brains.

 

Wow , this is getting personal , i see some people have long toes , easy to step on , great achievement in the hobby ? i am one of the founding members of the Mercedes club in Belgium ,and i have to many cars as my wife says . Complain about car values ? Indeed when somebody predicts that the price on a certain car will go like a rocket in the sky , than i would  the car myself instead of looking in a glass ball and later whining that i didn't buy the car .Snide cheap shots at sellers , i cannot remember that i did this and in case i did well excuse me then .The real hobbyist is not somebody who always talks about prices going up and up that this car is now so much worth and that one so much but one who talks about how to repair things and helps other people in everyway to keep the hobby alive .

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The perspective on values that is consistently left off, is the COST OF RESTORATION. 

 

Mr. boeve you have said that you like to talk repairs. Do you comment on the cost of those repairs?  Parts, paint, chrome, fabric, time, skill level of experts and use of specialty tools (machining) . . . . 

 

It would not be possible to pull a shabby original out a barn and put it in this condition for the price it is being offered for.  

 

I try to evaluate the asking price of a car by SUBTRACTING the cost of the 'REPAIRS' that it is wearing.  In doing so I have found many cars (even those priced at tens of thousands of dollars) are actually being offered "FOR FREE" if only you pay a discount on the restoration work that was done to it. 

 

BTW - buying multiple Duesenbergs for the purpose of correcting the 'damage' that was done years ago through engine and body swaps?? Impressive. Putting things right again? That is hobbyist activity. 

Edited by m-mman (see edit history)

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I am a "low ball" type of guy who mistakenly thought that I could buy an older "interpretive restoration" and make things correct on a budget. I may have over $30,000 into my 1925 Buick before I can make it what I originally envisioned. I still have a long way to go.

 I have found out the wisdom of going for what this Packard is offering. True, it is way out of my "where with all" but it is a stunning car. If I had the "where with all" to me, this is what a Packard of this quality would be expected to bring.

 Motoringicons comment, "Conservative elegance" fits perfectly!

 My long way to go has blessed me with many helpful hobbyists and friends in the Buick club and others on this forum.

 I hope it finds a good home for his asking price.

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Matt, Daniel and others, I agree that prices are relative to what people are willing and able to pay . However I feel  that the qualification of ability to pay is the main irritant for a number of average middle class  old car hobbyists rather than the prices themselves .  For a number of us the disposable income part of our life has seen a gradual erosion to the point where the purchase of any of the nicer old cars is all but impossible. I am not talking about Duesenberg's or even very many Packard's however many old cars a step above post war sedans. 

  When I first entered the hobby 40 or so years ago many cars were conceivably within my reach. Less desirable full Classics,  the vast majority of non- Classic pre- war cars,  at least 1/2 of the Brass era cars, and almost any post war car.  40 years on I have a reasonably good career that I am about to retire from for health reasons as much as any reason. And I will probably go back to my original career of High School Shop Teacher , on a part time basis to keep a little project money coming in. However none of that will turn the financial clock back for me.

  My point is that even though I continually progressed in my career ; and upgraded my education, my disposable income withered away over the decades.  And one by one cars that were at one time a reasonable proposition went out of my reach. To the point that any of the nicer cars have become impossible. 

  Now clearly a good number of individuals have gone from strength to strength with regards to disposable income. But the fact remains that for many well educated , hard working ,old car people that simply has not been the case. 

 It's easy to point out that prices are rising however that in itself would not be a major issue if prosperity for the majority was a fact.  Most middle class households are able to cover the day to day price increases in excess of increases of income by employing greater efficiency in a number of areas. Better insulation and more efficient heating and cooling appliances. Doing more repairs themselves. Eating at home more often, and many other measures.  But a stagnant pay cheque vs car prices that increase possibly tenfold is a situation no amount of rearranging spending priorities is going to solve. 

 I know its been said here before that you can have as much fun with a Model T as a Marmon, however it does irritate when a decade or two previous either would have been possible depending on ones inclination and today the Model T is the only possible choice.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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Greg,  I read your post carefully, but I'm unsure why you are using the word "irritate".  Wouldn't a better word be "disappoint"?  Somewhere there is somebody paying crazy prices,  if not then the crazy prices would become much less.

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1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Greg,  I read your post carefully, but I'm unsure why you are using the word "irritate".  Wouldn't a better word be "disappoint"?  Somewhere there is somebody paying crazy prices,  if not then the crazy prices would become much less.

 

Does this Packard carry a "crazy" price? 

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The ONLY regrets I have in life are cars I didn't buy when I had a chance to. I am learning to deal with it.

Bernie

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3 hours ago, alsancle said:

Greg,  I read your post carefully, but I'm unsure why you are using the word "irritate".  Wouldn't a better word be "disappoint"?  Somewhere there is somebody paying crazy prices,  if not then the crazy prices would become much less.

Like I said, there is a significant  minority of households where disposable income is on the rise, at times rapidly. There are millions of households in North America with very large disposable incomes. If only 5% of them are old car people that is still a huge number of potential buyers.

But for a good number of middle class households that simply is not the case. And yes disappoint is as good a word as any.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Does this Packard carry a "crazy" price? 

No, and yes.  62,000.00 U.S. is about 2 years after tax income for me.  Or about 20 years disposable income.  I am 60 now so I would have to borrow and pay for the Packard for in all likelihood the rest of my life. In fact once I go off my pre- retirement bank and start living on my pension it's probably closer to 40 years disposable income.  In other words I would have it paid for about the time of my 100th birthday. And that's with a career that paid  a at least 10% higher than average Canadian wage, probably closer to 15 % higher than average.

It's a very nice car, and probably reasonably priced for what it is. But affordable to a middle class Marine Engineer, not so much.

There is a car locally to me that I am very smitten with at just under $20,000.00 Cdn. I know it is a good deal and likely the last car of its type in Western Canada that I could possibly afford. I have a decent chunk of cash in the bank however there is a hitch. I need a new shop a lot more than another car , even though that car is ready to use and all my other cars are projects.

 But reality tells me that I can't buy it. My bank account will buy the shop but not the shop and the car.The shop must come first and I can't justify borrowing for a want as opposed to a need. 

So if $20,000.00 Cdn. is an obstacle just imagine how $ 62,000.00 U.S. seems.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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I have a body style like that in a 1930 Cadillac that I fully restored. Price having the chrome and engine done. Then subtract that from $62,500 and see what you have left to complete the   restoration. Then try and say it is expensive at that price.

I know of a 33 Packard that sold this spring for around the $125,000. price. I took this shot of it at the Gillmor about 4 years ago. I believe Rob Myers crew did the work on this Victoria.

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Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

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I'm usually on the low side when I guess the value of cars, and I thought this one was spot-on. If I was comfortable putting out $62K in disposable income, I'd be on this, but I'm not. If you can't get the car you want, get a car you can enjoy. Remember, this is supposed to be fun. Lusting after a car you can't afford and trying to divine the reasons prices are what they are are wastes of time. Buicks, junior series Packards, etc., there are lots of quality, affordable cars out there. I just bought a '37 LaSalle 4-door. Fit my budget, tons of '30's style, Cadillac mechanicals, I'm happy. 

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Well said, Suchan.  First and foremost, nice car and hopefully Scott gets his money.

 

Second, just makes me think of two very good pals with very different situations.  One is a young buck eking out a T speedster on a tight budget.  Its going slow, but he is patient and building to a high level.  He should be proud of the results.  The other has an extensive collection we here would likely agree is the stuff dreams are made of.  Professionally done high end cars. 

 

What do they have in common?  Both gentleman with a collector mentality, and know their stuff.  Actually both would like to step up more in a perfect world, but they both understand what fits their individual situations.  They are happy to be involved and really enjoy the hobby to the fullest.  That, to me is the right approach. ?

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Despite what people seem to think about me, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I'll never own a Duesenberg, much as I desperately want one. I'll never own a 1934 Packard Twelve of any kind, either. But that doesn't stop me from having fun in the cars that I can afford, and even though the relative prices might be vastly different, I don't really know if a Duesenberg would make me 50 times happier than my 1929 Cadillac does today. I'm not saying I wouldn't be willing to find out, but I'm quite content with what I have despite the dream of having more.

 

To me, happiness isn't in the value of something, it's what that thing adds to your life. If you can afford more expensive things and those things make you happy, great! I'm not going to begrudge those people who can afford those things just because I can't. Find your own happiness and you may very well discover that it is completely unrelated to the value of the thing in question.

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Well said Matt.

 In my particular case it's a bit more complicated. As I mentioned in my example of why the Packard wasn't what I would call a crazy price I mentioned that even a $20,000.00 Cdn, {$15,000.00 U.S.}  car is currently beyond me.  I live in a somewhat unique location. South Western British Columbia. A location known Internationally for a sky high cost of living coupled with comparatively low wages. Ranked internationally as one of the most " unaffordable to the locals" places in the world.

  How can this be, if people aren't making much money you would think prices would be low.

   Decades of poor governance at all levels combined with lax cash importation regulations and almost 0 enforcement of the laws that do exist have made my area a magnet for international cash both honest and ill gotten.  The new government is trying to sort out things a bit however the situation is critical. Every neighborhood  now has homeless camps, young familys are probably forever priced out of home ownership, tens of thousands of homes and condos sit empty as the foreign investors sit on their investments, the local rental vacancy rate is nearly zilch.The local casinos have become an internationally known means of laundering vast sums of cash and the list goes on. It's the stuff of TV land fiction however it is my every day reality.

 After well over 30 years in the workforce I now have only a little better standard of living than I had as a college student. The main difference is that I now own a paid for house rather than paying rent , currently close to $2000.00 Cdn /mo for a very average apartment in this area.

 Superimpose this situation against a generally prosperous economic climate in most of North America with the predictable increase in demand for hobby cars and you can see in my particular case the future is a bit bleak with regards to the old car hobby. I still make progress on my projects , however that progress is painfully slow.  And buying a useable car unless it's something like a Morris Minor is not an option.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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I don't know your situation, Greg, but that sounds like it sucks. It also looks like maybe a good opportunity to relocate--if your area is famous for low wages and high cost of living, anywhere else might be an improvement. Moving is a hassle, I know, and maybe finding a new job, but if there are bigger rewards out there if you get out of that place, maybe it's a risk worth taking. I've done it and my wife took a BIG risk when she relocated from Toronto to Cleveland. She took a gamble on me, but our standard of living is much higher here than it would have been in Toronto. Our modest $200,000 house here would be worth more than $1 million in Toronto--we'd never be able to afford it. 

 

Maybe it's worth considering. Life is too short to sit around and hope for change. You have to make it happen.

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