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Xander Wildeisen

Comparing Restoration costs

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Here are two cars for sale. When looking at both of them, and comparing cost of parts, rebuild costs and end value. What car is the better buy? We all know it comes down to what you want. Just though it would be a good comparison to match up cars costing about the same amount on the project buy in price. #1 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Packard-LIGHT-8/232740016124?hash=item363062cffc:g:i8sAAOSwh4Ra2QR5&vxp=mtr  and car #2  https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/d/1936-packard-2-door-coupe-v12/6545914582.html  One car has extra parts to use and sell. Please do not throw in shipping costs on the project cars. Just a straight up comparison.

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#1.

Any bumpers for sale out there?

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If a person just looked at straight up costs, and finished values. I think the V-12 Coupe project is a better buy.  

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The 900 looks like it will need rewooding. Figure $10k for that. Rare car. Most 900 Coupes were turned into convertibles years ago.

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You can buy a very nice 36 12 coupe for 100-120k.   Figure 300k or more to restore that one.

 

The 900 will be cheaper to restore,  and may be worth about the same amount.  

 

Neither is a good idea but I can see how people will fall for it.

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Good idea or not we are currently supplying wood and other parts to at least 4 HOBBYISTS who are restoring 900 Coupes or Convertibles. Anyone remember that word " hobbyist" ? These days, and especially on these forums it has been replaced with "speculator". " Beware the Philistine for he knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. " It isn't always about the money, folks.

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The two V-12 engines alone are worth the asking price. I sold a V-12 a few years ago for $12,000, and the values have probably increased since then. On the other hand, to overhaul a Twelve properly by an expert will run more than $50,000 each.

 

After further review, I see there is only one engine between the two. Whether restoring either of the two cars yourself or professionally, the only car that makes any sense to restore is the 1932 900. The pair of 1936s are just parts cars, or fodder for street rodders.

 

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56 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

 Anyone remember that word " hobbyist" ?

 

I like to think of myself as a "collector"  ?

 

"hobbyist" makes me think of someone building model airplanes.

 

Of course, maybe a more apt word would be "idiot".

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5 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

I like to think of myself as a "collector"  ?

 

"hobbyist" makes me think of someone building model airplanes.

 

Of course, maybe a more apt word would be "idiot".

 

Yes, the latter might make more sense.  I've called myself an "acquisitor" before, since I just seem to acquire things.  I look around and think "where'd all this stuff come from?".

 

The V-12 is definitely the more expensive car to restore, but I'd say it's worth a good 50% more than the 900 when done.  Coupes have gotten quite desirable.  The drawback, as mentioned, a V-12 engine is expensive to rebuild.

 

I'd say the 900 is the better buy, at least it's closer to being useable.....

 

 

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I was about 11 in 1959 when I first realized that I was a car hobbyist. I also noticed that I was seeing people involved who were a little different from the mainstream, the more odd the car, the more odd the hobbyist. I liked the lack of conformity and some of the eccentricities. They felt good.

I remember being somewhat offended in the late 1970's and early '80's when the speculators crept in and the image of the "wise investor" cast its shadow, I guess consciousness of that has kept me in cars that please me before leaning toward more popular stuff. I still feel that way.

 

I looked at the two Packards offered in the topic and thought the little convertible looked close to a driver to me. "If" I was in a position to buy either car, I would have to pay by check. If I stood there counting out three hundred $100 bills I would never make it. Way too many others cars would be going through my mind. Imagine paying in 20's! That is a stiff entry fee. Both are a long way from enjoying the experience.

 

My Wife made me some laminated bookmarks for stocking stuffers the year I bought my '48 Packard. I have 5 with various 1940's Packards. Currently I am reading a book and using a 1947 Custom Clipper marker. In February I had cabin fever and bought a 2003 V12 7 Series BMW that I have been enjoying on the few nice days we have had. I look at the Packard each evening and immediately think of the experience I am enjoying with that 4900 pound BMW. I have driven quite a variety of Classic cars and I am getting the feel of the experience in that newer car. I even went to the CCCA website to compare parameters and I am getting a very similar experience for around $10,000. That is about 50 years of objectivity at work.

 

Two project cars at $30,000 each, nah, not at this point in my life or the life of the hobby, not that I am opposed to dragging home a project. I have tried to teach my Wife a lot of things. Most of it hasn't stuck. Sometimes she learns inadvertently, little things she hears in conversations. Like the time she said "I thought you said you weren't going to buy any more work." What! Out of all my effort she had to pay attention that day?!

Bernie

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I think the two cars are a great comparison. And open up an interesting conversation about the industry and the hobby. Cost involved, finished value, intended use, missing parts, extra parts and what it takes to finish ether car. Both cars are the same to me, if one looks a little nicer, that will go away when you start to tear it apart. Both need the same work done, a full build/restoration. Everyone hammers the custom/street rod side, but then people will say that these cars would make good street rod projects, because they are to far gone to be restored. And maybe from a restoration stand point (cost) they are to far gone. But slamming a person for building a custom out of a car that nobody wants to restore, does not make much sense. Quality shops could build or restore both cars, you just need a person who can see what the cars used to be, and what they could be. So is it the cost to restore the cars that has made people not interested? Or is it a disconnect from that era, that has people not wanting to restore or build a car like this? The 900 is going to sell, so someone is doing something with it. The 36 coupe will be bought at some price, and something will be done with it. Sounds like interest is still there, it just comes down to cost. Is the hobby/industry pricing it's self into a corner? It would be cheaper to replace all of the wood with steel when building a custom. Maybe all cars hit a point where it makes sense to build a custom/street rod out of it. Everyone wants to say it is not about the money, but I think it is. Both cars would be fun to build into a custom, and the unused parts would be around for restored cars that have had a better life. No matter how they are built/restored. A glass shop, paint shop, tire store, interior shop, machine shop and other trades will have work to do. And that is a good thing. And no matter what kind of car shows the finished product is at, Packard styling would be on display to inspire young car builders/restorers/hobbyists.     

Edited by Xander Wildeisen (see edit history)

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37 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I looked at the two Packards offered in the topic and thought the little convertible looked close to a driver to me.

Bernie

 

You need to look closer. They are both coupes.

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Oh, it's a coupe. They called it stationery. A coupe would be stationary.

 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

 

You need to look closer. They are both coupes.

 

Oh, shucks, I missed that too, just looked quickly at picture and fabric top fooled me.

 

I'd restore the V-12.  The main cost difference would be the engine, the differential between restoring an 8 cylinder and a 12 cylinder, and the value of the 12 cylinder car would be significantly higher.

 

 

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Actually the price on the 900 is not out of line. 900's either coupes or convertibles have been trading near this price for quite some time. The 900 has a good following. We have rewooded at least 8 in the last 25 years, 2 in the last 2 years.

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I heard, in some circle of great authority, that a man hasn't fully matured until he has owned a 12 cylinder car.

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19 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I heard, in some circle of great authority, that a man hasn't fully matured until he has owned a 12 cylinder car.

3K will get you an XJS. I have to go now, there is an arm wrestling event I am entered in. 

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What would scare me, is in the description of the second car. Plenty of rust. Plenty of rust= plenty of money to be spent.

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Hobbyists own  old cars that fit their middle class budgets Probably as often as not less than $50,000.00 all in.

  Upper middle class and beyond households own just about any car within reason that they decide to purchase. Say $200,00.00 max. A much expanded range of cars.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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Just as long as we are dreaming I will say I’d restore them all. What’s money when I’m dreaming. 

Dave S 

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Buy a nice one early and keep it a long time. I'm not so much interested in the clapped out cars someone bought 40 years ago and "saved" hoarder style. The years go by fast and it is a lot easier to maintain a good one. That Chevy in the background can be on the Hershey show field next year. And it just got back from a 10 mile ride to meet some guys for coffee.

 

That is where my thoughts on restoration have evolved or devolved. Sometimes the skills of long term preservation outweigh the satisfaction of restoration.

 

Those dropped box elders are either going to someone who wants to keep warm or re-leaf them to their former glory. They remind me of the rusty coupe.

Bernie

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On 4/27/2018 at 12:14 PM, 60FlatTop said:

I heard, in some circle of great authority, that a man hasn't fully matured until he has owned a 12 cylinder car.

So if you once owned a v-12 car without the engine,  where does that put you?  About ready to graduate to manhood? 

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Easy for me to decide, the 1932 Packard 900, once finished you have an attractive automobile., not so with the Orca. Bob 

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16 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

So if you once owned a v-12 car without the engine,  where does that put you?

 

All the privileges of ownership. Just like riding the pony in front of the drugstore with your chaps on.

Bernie

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