Dynamo/ generator rewiring

[airbrush]

Hi

I have a 1927 buick standard and need to get the dynamo/generator rewound as I am thinking of upgrading it to 12 volt electrics , does anyone know if thats possible? I have been told to flash it across the battery but as I have never done this I wanted to make sure its right.

[HarryLime]

Changing to 12 volts is not an upgrade. It is an expensive way to stay right where you are now.

[Matt Harwood]

Is the generator currently operational? 

[airbrush]

to be honest we havent had the car long and dont know if its working , 6 volt spares are getting really hard to get here and I wouldnt mind making the lights brighter for night use.

[airbrush]

2 hours ago, 23hack said:

Changing to 12 volts is not an upgrade. It is an expensive way to stay right where you are now.

Hi the llights are like using candles and it wont be safe on the road at night also 6 volt electrics are becoming scare here

[rodneybeauchamp]

Airbrush, you may want to consider using 6V relays in your lighting system. This will give you 6V at the globe making it as bright as you get on standard globes. You may also be able to put in an LED or QH conversion.

 

I have done the 6V relay conversion on my ‘38 Special with great results, gone from having lights that were only good in the daytime (read absolutely pathetic, almost dangerous) to ones on standard globes that are now useable at night. 

 

6V relays and heavy wiring is all available on the net, there is an article on this forum you may wish to research.

just my two bobs worth 

Rodney ???????

[airbrush]

I like to keep the cars as standard and will if I can , are there wiring diagrams here as I can do standard wiring but when it starts to get into adding extras that can add problems for me.

[Morgan Wright]

2 hours ago, 23hack said:

Changing to 12 volts is not an upgrade. It is an expensive way to stay right where you are now.

 

When you say "stay right where you are now" is that because the car didn't start?

[Matt Harwood]

If you're bad at wiring and "extras" then changing a car of this vintage to 12 volts is going to cause you no end of headaches.

 

Everyone uses "safety" as their reason for the change, but how fast is the car and how often do you drive at night on unlighted roads in heavy traffic? That car won't out-drive a set of 6V bulbs that are at full brightness. You're going what, 35? 40 MPH at best at night? You could use a flashlight at those speeds and be OK. Relays are easy to understand and use--I just installed a relay for my new fog lights and it works flawlessly and was not at all difficult once I understood what the relay's job is and how it worked. In fact, it can actually help in multiple ways, starting with not passing all the current through that fragile dash switch, and the benefit that Rodney mentions, which is putting a full 6V to the bulbs thanks to shorter wiring runs and not having to use the aforementioned switch. Search my name and you'll find my posts with extensive details, including a wiring diagram, for connecting a relay.

 

For taillights, use LEDs. I installed some in both my '41 Buick and '29 Cadillac and it made them considerably more noticeable at night. Ditto on searching my name for info on LEDs.

 

A 12-volt conversion will cause mischief, and once it's done, there will be no manual to help the next guy who has to try to sort it out down the road. He will curse your name long and loud. A lot of people think the only way to make old cars work properly is to convert to 12 volts, but in most cases, the impulse to do that is because 1) 6-volt systems have a reputation for being unreliable, which isn't true--the problem cars are usually neglected and have bad grounds, and 2) they don't understand electrical systems and figure that just converting to 12 volts will solve all their problems because they can simply buy all new parts off the shelf. Plug and play!

 

The reality is that most 6-volt cars converted to 12 volts have electrical gremlins that are difficult to cure and it's tough to go back once you've started down that road. And that ignores the fact that none of the original 6-volt stuff in the car will work: gauges, clocks, lights, horns, etc. You'll have to replace or re-wire all that equipment, too. In 99% of the cases, the change to 12 volts is a lot more work than just fixing the original 6-volt system and there's no real gain in the end. And sealed beam bulbs in old car headlight buckets ALWAYS looks stupid.

 

Put it back to 6 volts, make sure the wiring--especially the grounds--is in top shape, and upgrade the lighting with modern bulbs. You might be surprised how well it works. 

[sligermachine]

welcome to the Pre war  Buick forum.Thanks for showing us your Buick it looks grate !  Lots of people like 12 volt cars but with ''LED'' light's it's not so important . And my 1925 Buick spins up fast with 6 volt's .So its still up to you .

 thats my 2 cents. --kyle 

  

[airbrush]

7 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

 

When you say "stay right where you are now" is that because the car didn't start?

I didnt say that, my car does start but I can see issues with safety and supplies

[airbrush]

7 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

If you're bad at wiring and "extras" then changing a car of this vintage to 12 volts is going to cause you no end of headaches.

 

Everyone uses "safety" as their reason for the change, but how fast is the car and how often do you drive at night on unlighted roads in heavy traffic? That car won't out-drive a set of 6V bulbs that are at full brightness. You're going what, 35? 40 MPH at best at night? You could use a flashlight at those speeds and be OK. Relays are easy to understand and use--I just installed a relay for my new fog lights and it works flawlessly and was not at all difficult once I understood what the relay's job is and how it worked. In fact, it can actually help in multiple ways, starting with not passing all the current through that fragile dash switch, and the benefit that Rodney mentions, which is putting a full 6V to the bulbs thanks to shorter wiring runs and not having to use the aforementioned switch. Search my name and you'll find my posts with extensive details, including a wiring diagram, for connecting a relay.

 

For taillights, use LEDs. I installed some in both my '41 Buick and '29 Cadillac and it made them considerably more noticeable at night. Ditto on searching my name for info on LEDs.

 

A 12-volt conversion will cause mischief, and once it's done, there will be no manual to help the next guy who has to try to sort it out down the road. He will curse your name long and loud. A lot of people think the only way to make old cars work properly is to convert to 12 volts, but in most cases, the impulse to do that is because 1) 6-volt systems have a reputation for being unreliable, which isn't true--the problem cars are usually neglected and have bad grounds, and 2) they don't understand electrical systems and figure that just converting to 12 volts will solve all their problems because they can simply buy all new parts off the shelf. Plug and play!

 

The reality is that most 6-volt cars converted to 12 volts have electrical gremlins that are difficult to cure and it's tough to go back once you've started down that road. And that ignores the fact that none of the original 6-volt stuff in the car will work: gauges, clocks, lights, horns, etc. You'll have to replace or re-wire all that equipment, too. In 99% of the cases, the change to 12 volts is a lot more work than just fixing the original 6-volt system and there's no real gain in the end. And sealed beam bulbs in old car headlight buckets ALWAYS looks stupid.

 

Put it back to 6 volts, make sure the wiring--especially the grounds--is in top shape, and upgrade the lighting with modern bulbs. You might be surprised how well it works. 

Im not bad at wiring and could very easily rewire the car however adding relays into the circuit isnt something I have done and therefore it wouldnt be straighforward. I have quite a few cars both 6 and 12 volt but I am aware of the issues a 6 volt can have I am planning to let me young son drive this and want to make sure that he will be safe and that other road users can see him on the road we live in the countryside and dont have street lamps so all we have is the lights on the car. I have converted cars to 12 volts with no problems and they have worked ok I just didnt know about the dynamo on this one but thank you for you input

[sligermachine]

my 1925 master roadster is all most drive-able but runs good  !  new 6 volt batter and up grading to LED lights-- kyle

[Matt Harwood]

If you're going to go with 12 volts no matter what, please make a new wiring diagram so the next owner knows what you've done. It would also be helpful to note all the part numbers of bulbs, horns, starter solenoids, switches, etc. so that if they ever need replacement, the next owner can figure it out. Oh, and for the love of God, don't use all one color wire! We had one car that some genius had rewired for 12 volts and used only red wires. We spent about three weeks trying to figure out what he'd done and how to get the car running properly. If I could have found that person, I would have pushed a screwdriver through his ear hole.

 

Or perhaps your son would enjoy the process of restoring and operating a car as it was originally. When I was 13, my father taught me to drive on our 1930 Model A Ford roadster. It was six volts and manual shift. I didn't know how to drive, let alone use a clutch, but he pointed out that I could stall it perhaps a half-dozen times and then we'd be pushing, cranking, or walking. Needless to say, I learned fast and never looked back. Sometimes paving the way and making our kids' lives easy and trouble-free only hurts them in the long run. Just a thought.

 

Here's a wiring diagram for a relay. Not hard or scary. If you can change to 12 volts, you can handle this.

[Thriller]

9 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

If I could have found that person, I would have pushed a screwdriver through his ear hole.

 

 

 

How about you tell us how you really feel Matt? ???

 

[sligermachine]

On 4/25/2018 at 5:32 AM, Matt Harwood said:

would have pushed a screwdriver 

Maybe he was colorblind and thought he was using black and red ? I just always look at the bright side of the moon .wile trying to figure people out .

[MikeMike]

Easy and rewarding job.

 

Fit a later 12v dynamo or an alternator

Fit a later12 regulator, not needed with an alternator.

Fit a second 6v battery.

It doesn't need to be a big battery.

 

Connect 2nd battery earth to 1st battery live.

Connect regulator output to 2nd battery.

Connect old lighting circuit to 2nd battery live.

 

Change bulbs.

 

Use headlights as normal

 

Used to take me a couple of hours from scratch.

1st one took a bit longer of course.

 

I found a good place the put the 2nd battery

was between rad and grill.

 

You end up with good 12 volt lights and 6 volt everything else.

[airbrush]

thank you its in storage for the winter but Ill take a look when I get it back out.