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New Scheme: second sway bar on a 55


old-tank
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1 hour ago, Beemon said:

Are the hose clamps staying? :P

 

Have you considered making or adapting a thicker bar? Or adding one to the rear axle? 

 

The wood and hose clamps will go away.  i had a second bar and mock-up looked good.  Rear bar may be next.

1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said:

A fella made a few for the 54's.   Sold them all  if I remember correctly.  Worked well I as told.  

I missed out on  the latest run of bars, but do have a 1 inch on my other 55 (replaces 11/16") and it performs so well that I am spoiled:  no more leaning, sway and squalling tires that wear the edges. 

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How the sway bar tore itself from the frame is interesting. They must have assumed that the torque being transmitted to the bar before and after the turn would be negligible enough to not have to worry about it twisting from the frame rail.

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Reading that one must always have bigger sway bar in front than rear. Consult tech papers for reasons(how short can short term memory get?) One is Mark Ortiz monthly news letter! Free for signing up. Good for them aspiring college SAE chassis builders, wink wink, nod!

Edited by Guest (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, stealthbob said:

I sincerely regret not getting one back then...I was not ready to work on the car at that time so I put it off.

 

Bob, I had considered it but wanting to keep the 54 Buick feel with bias ply, sway bar etc. I did not make the purchase.  I still drive it like I stole it though!  

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18 hours ago, Beemon said:

How the sway bar tore itself from the frame is interesting. They must have assumed that the torque being transmitted to the bar before and after the turn would be negligible enough to not have to worry about it twisting from the frame rail.

Nothing broken...just an additional bar with rigged attachment for now.

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9 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

 

Bob, I had considered it but wanting to keep the 54 Buick feel with bias ply, sway bar etc. I did not make the purchase.  I still drive it like I stole it though!  

Yea, if you want the true experience then why change it....even incrementally?

 

"Might as well" is a powerful force, its hard to see it in real time but there comes a time when you realize you may be chasing something you dont need or even want.

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I installed 1 1/8" front sway bars to my '54. '55 and '56 Buicks.  They made a very big improvement in the handling performance of the car. No more wallowing on curvy roads.

I got them from Steve Dole,  (831) 655-4838.  Garden Grove, CA   $165.00 each.

 

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4 hours ago, Airy Cat said:

I installed 1 1/8" front sway bars to my '54. '55 and '56 Buicks.  They made a very big improvement in the handling performance of the car. No more wallowing on curvy roads.

I got them from Steve Dole,  (831) 655-4838.  Garden Grove, CA   $165.00 each.

 

 

I found your posts on TeamBuick from 2006. Is he still in business? That information is 12 years old now.

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I bought the last one Steve Dole had and UPS  LOST it somewhere between California and Georgia. That’s when my friend  Brad started having them fabricated but has sold all he had made. Let me know if I need to nag him into having more made. 

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1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

I bought the last one Steve Dole had and UPS  LOST it somewhere between California and Georgia. That’s when my friend  Brad started having them fabricated but has sold all he had made. Let me know if I need to nag him into having more made. 

Please feel free to forward my thoughts.....

here-just-take.jpg

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171043616_WP_20180428_09_58_23_Pro1.thumb.jpg.b99f7d2284a5dd459a73cf34c565b697.jpg191687375_WP_20180429_10_53_55_Pro1.thumb.jpg.d9130fe0db9be2d8e25737cbde0955f4.jpg

 

 

Got a  better attachment of the bars.  Road test:  good control of sway/lean, but not as good as my other one with 1 inch bar  (but that one has heavy springs and radials).  Maybe some resident engineers can calculate the control of two 11/16 inch bars vs one 1 inch bar.

Still not satisfied with the setup.  Tire rubs at full R or L lock.   Grind on bracket?  Buy smaller brackets ($$$)?  I have an idea...more later.

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The two sway bar mounts, compounded, put the two bars in a more parallel orientation, which is much better!  If the Moog Blue bushings are more rubber than urethane, you might try a trick I saw years ago to stiffen-up normal rubber sway bar mounts.  With a drill, put small holes through the bushings, then inset small dia nails in the holes to reinforce the rubber and make it stiffer.  If they are already stiff polyurethane,  not much that can help that.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

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As far as bar diameter sizing, the front bar should be larger as that's the heaviest end of the car, with just a driver and front seat passenger.  Adding a rear bar to help balance the roll movement in a turn, can work wonders, IF it's sized correctly for the loads it will experience.

 

For example, my '77 Camaro came with a 1" front bar and a .562" rear bar in the non-Z/28 F-41 suspension option.  The Z/28 used a 1.25" front bar with a '75" rear bar.

 

IF the bar is too big, the ride on rough roads will deteriorate as the bar will act like an additional stiff spring, adding to the existing spring load actions.  When one wheel drops down and the other one stays on the flat/level pavement.  Best to use smaller bars, but more of them, than one BIG bar on the front.

 

The bigger front bar puts more of the cornering forces to the front, which can mean the traction limits of the existing tires will be deteriorated.  Adding the rear bar puts some of that cornering force to the rear wheels, which makes them "work" too, balancing the handling in the process.

 

NTX5467

 

 

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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On 4/29/2018 at 4:11 PM, old-tank said:

 

 

Got a  better attachment of the bars.  Road test:  good control of sway/lean, but not as good as my other one with 1 inch bar  (but that one has heavy springs and radials).  Maybe some resident engineers can calculate the control of two 11/16 inch bars vs one 1 inch bar.

Still not satisfied with the setup.  Tire rubs at full R or L lock.   Grind on bracket?  Buy smaller brackets ($$$)?  I have an idea...more later.

I'd replace your original sway bar bushings and link pins and then give another test drive; they look pretty tired.

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Having them parallel versus how you had them before will definitely help. Without knowing the exact spring rate of the bar, it's a bit difficult to gauge exactly how much better the setup really is. You might loose some suspension travel with shorter links, too. How tight did you make the bushings? 

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7 hours ago, Beemon said:

Having them parallel versus how you had them before will definitely help. Without knowing the exact spring rate of the bar, it's a bit difficult to gauge exactly how much better the setup really is. You might loose some suspension travel with shorter links, too. How tight did you make the bushings? 

According to a previous vendor of the one inch bars:  HERE

113lb/ft spring rate for the stock bar, his one inch are 500lb/ft (?)  I am getting as much control as my other car with the one inch and this one has softer springs.  A local road with lots of curves and heaves rated at 35 mph was manageable at 50 mph as well as modern iron.  There is one rubber bushing in the system that is squashed down to usual installation...the other synthetic bushings did not squash.  I have no directions on how to install the synthetic.   

I was hoping one out resident engineers would calculate the spring rate of the two bars.?  ...it seems better than 226lb/ft .

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18 hours ago, Ttotired said:

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but you do realise the eyes at the end of say bars are going to travel through a different arc

 

Its going to tear itself to bits

 

Your first farmer design was probably safer

 

 

Ok Mick, after peeling that moldy web blanket off my head and wiping the slime out of my eyes, I still ain't seein' it.  After about 200 miles of 'spirited' driving on lumpy roads everything is in place.  So I removed the links and rotated the bars through the approximate range ofsuspension travel and you are right...there is some difference in the arc, but not enough to cause a bind on the link bolt and even then the deflection in the frame and link bushings should compensate.  This might be more of a problem on one of those off-road racing vehicles with very long suspension travel.  Gonna go take a shower and remind myself to check everything at oil change time.?

Edited by old-tank (see edit history)
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