auburnseeker

The toy box and the big shop, my New shop Build.

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Back in the 80’s (I understand that’s ancient history to some of you) we built a 3600 sq ft house and the contractor convinced me to go with the spray on foam insulation. The company made a deal with me if our heating bill was more than $350 for the 4 months of Nov thru Feb they would refund the cost of the insulation. It was a cold winter and the total was $341. I’ll never forget that number and was amazed they were so accurate. At the time they were just starting to use that type of foam in the Chicago metro area. It was used quite a bit in Canada. The house still has low heat bills compared to neighbors. You may think of using that type insulation

 

Have fun

dls

Edited by SC38DLS (see edit history)

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I hadn't gotten a quote but it still seems like you would have thermal bridging with all the studs,  where you won't with a full 2 inch inner foam shell.  Not sure as I haven't researched it that well yet. I do plan to have infloor heat, which the floor will be insulated of course as well,  plus the insulation is inside the foundation,  so I'm not heating the actual concrete of the foundation. 

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I’m sure you are right about the studs but the question is does the cost savings offset the cost of heat loss on something like that. On that house my neighbors were spending about $200 a month back then for about the same size house with conventional batten insulation. Your inner two inch foam would save more but is it worth the cost. I’m sure your research will answer that as the rest of this building has been done so well

Have fun

dls

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The one area money spent up front is usually the best return is on insulation.  Unfortunately that heat bill comes around every year and the cost of heat rarely goes down.  Now i could heat with a wood boiler,  and haven't ruled a multi fuel boiler out, that requires having coal, wood or oil dropped and to do it smartly,  build a boiler house centrally located between the shop, Garage and house then heat all 3 with it.  Our house is well insulated but has alot of glass and we burn a little over 500 gallons of fuel a winter keeping it fairly cool but it also heats our water. The central boiler especially if wood fired would probably be pretty economical.  Though pumping water to all 3 buildings and back would require a fair amount of energy.  I was told ot put it in one of the buildings because then you essentially heat that building for free, but if it's going to be a wood fired boiler,  I like the idea of it being isolated from the buildings.  We'll see.  A long way down the road at this point.  With new energy standards,  that combo I gave for R ratings might be the new requirement before long. 

Also remember what the soil looks like here.  Digging a bunch of trenches for burying those pipes might be very difficult.  Though if I run electric from where I want,  that would put one trench from the one garage to the other as I go by it to the power source.  If i run water from the well,  right by the house to the shop,  that would provide a trench between those two. 

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It would look nice inside with vertical rough sawn. You don't really need the battens, let there be some gaps, you can always put black plastic or tar paper on the purlins so the gaps will show black if you think it will bothers you and you will have a smoother wall to hang things. If you think a clear coat on natural wood is still to dark use a semi transparent white stain on it.

 

Here is one end of my shop with a similar treatment.

 

CrosleyShop.jpg

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I have alot of windows and will have alot of LED lights so It shouldn't be real dark as alot of guys have caves with no windows. It just wouldn't be as bright as if it was white inside. 

 

The 1 x 12 x 16's I used on the outside were about $10 each from my friend.  The only exception is some of those were water stained but I could tell him they need a clean side because I'm leaving them unfinished.  He would probably accommodate me with that big an order.  That would be about 240 pieces.  If he couldn't do it,  I know alot of other guys saw in the area,  so I should be able to get a similar deal for a big quantity. 

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)

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There's info on that stud thermal bridging. i don't think it's that big of a deal. One stud every 16 inches, and the stud is 1.5 inches. So the studs make up only about 9% of the running length of the wall. Studs have a lower R-value, but it's not zero.

 

http://www.rvalue.net/page2.html

 

Approximately 11% of your home is not insulated properly due to wood framing however, wall studs are a fact in home construction. Before you cover up the wall studs, making house insulation diagrams for any future reference is a good idea.

The r-values of wood studs act as a thermal bridge. The r-values of wood can create a cold area in the insulation where the wood stud meets the sheetrock. The cold spots can compromise the insulation and lower the effective average R-values of the whole wall. In addition to the poor r-values of wood lowering the R-values of the wall, a cold spot may lead to condensation problems. Moisture could condense through wall studs, which generally have the lowest insulation r-values, and other framing materials of the home. If moisture does get into the wall cavity, moisture condensation can begin where the cold r-values of wood studs meet the sheetrock.
The r-values of wood wall studs are linear and are measured in terms of inches. However, wood wall studs generally lower the r-values of your insulation.
The r-values of wood are specified as 1.25 per inch.

 

A 2X6 wall studs r values are measured as,
5.5" X 1.25. The r values = 6.875

A 2X4 stud wall studs r-values are measured as,
3.5" X 1.25. The r-values = 4.375

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)

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So if you had 2 by 6 wall framing, about 10% of the wall would have R value 7 (the studs - thermal bridge ) while the part that had the closed cell foam would have, what, R-19? So your overall r value for the wall would be 0.9 x 19 + 0.1 x 7 =  17.8 over R-value

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I have 2 x8 framing and alot of windows that require alot of headers and of course lots of jack studs so I have probably a higher percentage of thermal bridging.  What I'm not sure but with the size of the headers it could be as much as 15 to 20 percent.  Roxul also carries a higher R value.  I think 6 inches of roxul is a R22 and 8 is R28.  

Not sure how that plugs into the overall equation.  

I know the foam inner shell helps seal everything up better for drafts while still allowing the building to breath to the unheated outside so you aren't as apt to get sweating,  plus the roxul doesn't absorb moisture as much as conventional glass insulation.  

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Is it only me that has this kind of luck?  So I went to shut my garage door this afternoon, before the big storm hits with 30 MPH and up winds, when the garage door wouldn't close.  This is the $4000+ garage door and new $1300 opener with 2 year warranty that was installed less than a year ago and says to service every 5000 cycles.  Can't be on more than about 250 at this point. 

It has been occassionally not wanting to shut but usually did on the second push of the button. I figured it might need lubrication on the rollers and hinges which I did Yesterday. 

I did a bunch of research on the web as when did it act up? About 10 minutes before 5Pm and today is Thanksgiving Eve.  Won't close at all now and a call to the owner of the Garage door company that I bought it from,  yielded no return call, though I called the owner's Cell phone.  I just wanted to pick his brain if nothing else. With diagnosing and a bunch of searches on the Web, Several trips to the garage on the nice wet  as it's pouring out ICY Drive,  I think it's the RPM sensor.  It is doing exactly what the guys online state it will do if the sensor fails.  Closes about 6 inches,  then reverses.  I know I probably should have called the guy when it first did it,  but I figured it was a glitch.  Why should a new unit fail in less than a year.  Especially since it's a Commercial unit?

Of course the only way to get up to the opener was to drop the plow off the tractor, put the Forks on and Clean off my Work platform that goes on the Forks so I had a good workstation and wasn't holding on by my teeth off the extension ladder as the lift is put away for the winter.  

 

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Mine has done that twice.  I found that holding the button will make my door close.

Good Luck

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The sensors seem to be working properly and I double checked the alignment. According to the lights on them. (that was my first guess as to what might be wrong)  How do I bypass them completely? 

 

I tried holding the close button as well after reading about that on line,  but it didn't work.  (couldn't have been that easy to bypass it so I could atleast get the thing closed)

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Take the two sensors off the door track and mount them in a way where they are about 2" apart and try the door again. I am assuming you have extra bell wire, and you can mount them anywhere. Then when the door people come back they can set it up again.

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I did go back out this morning after some research on the web.  The sensors seem to have been the culprit.   Though they were showing a solid light they were at the extreme edge of their parameter which even though it showed a solid light it wasn't making enough contact (surprising they could do that)to actually let the door close.  I positioned them so they were closer to center of the lights being steady and it closed right down.  Wish I had tried that last night,  but since I had a solid light I figured it was good.  I actually figured it out from a vide on youtube where a guy said if the sensors move at all they can send a false warning.  When I went to make sure mine were secure I noticed how close to setting the flashing code off they were.   I guess on is on and off is off doesn't apply here and there is a little gray area. Something for everyone to keep in mind if they ever have the same problem. Even though things look fine, reset/aim them.  

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.  I used the door a few times today to be sure and it worked fine. 

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The other thing that I found was with the loss of tree foliage and the different angle of the sun in the fall there is about three weeks that the sun itself overpowers my sensors in the early morning.

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It was actually dark the last few times I tried it.  But I could see how that would affect it and one of my sensors gets direct light in the afternoon,  so if it doesn't work in the afternoon one day in the spring or Fall I'll keep that in mind and check it. 

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