Mark Shaw

BCA 2018 Denver Meet Prewar Buick Parking

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(Depending upon build date, possibly, what about the Korean War??)

 

I'm glad that we have members that are "engaged" with many areas of the operation of the BCA.  I'm also cognizant of the "respect your elders" orientation from prior times.  Prior times when many of us were "taught" things in our youth.  But I also remember from back then when "In their second childhood" was an operative explanation for how some "elders" acted or reacted to situations.  And in that respect, I also remember how parents might react to a constant nagging by their teen-aged children about being allowed to do some things they thought they  (the kids) needed to do . . . else the world might come to an end.

 

In that orientation, I'm wondering "Why" we're still having issues with where the Pre-War, or any other similar entity in the BCA, will be parked on the show field and in what manner?  How many years has this discussion been going on?  Not that I've been following it closely, but I was under the impression that it had been settled a good while back.  Therefore, when I saw this thread, I'm thinking "I thought this deal had been settled?"  AND if it hasn't been settled, I certainly hope it will have been "put to bed" before 2019!

 

Personally, I don't like to see dialogue about how many BCA BOD members might be "aligned with particular orientations" (as few Pre-War oriented members on the BOD comment alluded to).  The BCA BOD should be working, impartially, for the whole organization's good and prosperity, no matter what.  NOT a power struggle of whom's for/against whom!  And, as a BCA member, that's what I expect to happen -- period.  As both the host chapter and the BCA have a good bit of financial issues riding on the success of the National Meets, how the National Meets happen is important, just as such meets are important to the BCA for many other reasons . . . including a good reason to "get out of town" and meet other like-minded Buick enthusiasts!  Everybody attending ought to have a good time, but it seems some minor issues, which might only last for the bulk of daytime daylight, keep reappearing for one reason or another.  

 

I know that many want to park where they might desiere, by whom they desire.  Been there, seen that, many times over the decades.  But I also know how the judging operations need to happen and what might delay them.  But then I like for things to be laid out logically to aid in that function.  That's just me.  Get it completed and get on with things, while taking enough time to do it correctly with a high degree of reliability.

 

Perhaps, we need to consider "Divisional" parking rather than "Class Parking"?  Assign judging groups to these divisions, with the related divisional judging have class divisions within them?  That might also need to include a "General Population" division.  Not sure we need to deploy Porta-Potties every 75 feet, though, but it might be considered.

 

I also have observed (of others and myself), that as we age, "change" takes more effort to rationalize.  We feel comfortable in what we are used to, which is fine.  Aside of any changes in bodily function, which there seem to be few options to change, which can be depressing.  Depression can then lead to anxiety about things that really don't mean much, after everything settles down.  These have been my advancing observations over the past decade or so.  NO finger pointing intended!  For example, when we had Pontiacs with the European-inspired wiper control on a shorter stalk on the right hand side of the steering column, as the car had a floor shifter, whenever a "retired person" got into one, after they started the car, got ready to back out, rather than the car move, the windshield wipers would operate.  Which always brought a surprised look to their face as they then found the floor shift to put the car in "R" and back out.

 

We all ought to be working together for the good of the WHOLE organization -- period.  That means the BCA BOD, the BCA Divisions, and everybody else involved in making that happen.  I dislike seeming re-ignited/recurring "controversy", especially partisan-oriented controversy.  It doesn't matter where it comes from or whom is involved.   We have had far too much of that in our lives over the last 9 years.  I don't like that either!  So, please get something on paper, signed, and agreed to by all parties involved, so we can move on to bigger and better things in the future.  That's the business-like way to do things, by observation.   And please get this completed BEFORE 2019.

 

I respectfully thank for your time, consideration, and toleration of my "Free Speech".  I make these comments as a free-standing member of the BCA, only.

Willis Bell  20811

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sitting in bed having rainy day Sunday morning coffee with my sweet Rita, she on her lap top, me on mine. Me staring out the window for a period. Rita - "What are you thinking about? Me- "Some **** I'd like to say if I wasn't a moderator"

 But I will go so far as to give thanks to Willis for saying what I think many of us have been  thinkin, and in much more eloquent terms than I would have used by far.  

 

21 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

The BCA BOD should be working, impartially, for the whole organization's good and prosperity, no matter what.  NOT a power struggle of whom's for/against whom!  And, as a BCA member, that's what I expect to happen -- period. 

 

 

21 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

We all ought to be working together for the good of the WHOLE organization -- period.  That means the BCA BOD, the BCA Divisions, and everybody else involved in making that happen.

 

but then....

 

21 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Perhaps, we need to consider "Divisional" parking rather than "Class Parking"?  Assign judging groups to these divisions, with the related divisional judging have class divisions within them?  That might also need to include a "General Population" division.

 

 

and I assume or hope that by the last quote regarding "divisions" being made in italics, it was said in jest. As I see it, we are divided enough already and all this division oriented talk is only pulling us further apart.  You can only pull taffy so far until it breaks then all you have is a stringy mess. 

 

 

Just one question though Willis and not being a smart acre here but, I'm not seeing your name on the ballot because why?

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The whole issue of "altogether" and "chronological" parking has been hammered out to the point where, I even hesitate to even bring it up. That said, John DiFore has done as good a job as I have seen of explaining where this is at the moment. I know that a parking issue at a previous National Meet has brought this to the forefront. That is long over and done with. No one on the National Meet Committee has been against this type of parking. The biggest issues are that parking at any National Meet becomes a compromise between the hotel and the host chapter. Many times a planned parking arrangement gets changed at the 11th hour due to a hotel selling part of their parking lot, agreements between hotels and their neighbors going away just before a meet is scheduled to happen. (the same situation can occur with trailer parking) Unless a person has been involved in the running of a meet, it can be very difficult to understand how these situations can occur.  The other issues that can and do occur is a lack of volunteers to actually do the parking. Much of our membership is aging and can not be putting 8 plus hours a day parking cars in the summer heat. As John mentioned in his comments, every effort will be made to accomplish chronological parking starting at the 2018 Denver meet. This will be our initial trial for this type of parking with the expectation, that what ever is learned will be used to make improvements going forward. It is not expected that modifieds will be included as, they use a different type of judging, and will probably prefer to park in the modified Class. Modifieds span a great number of years and this  would put too great a strain on the organization of the meet, if they prefer to be judged.

I am also sure that any modified that wants "display only" and wants to be chronologically parked could be accommodated.

I am looking forward to the Denver Meet. The host chapter has done a great job in organizing this meet.

Jack Welch (National Meet Committee / 2018 National Meet Head Judge)

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As I see it, the biggest division is between those who see the meet primarily as a get-together of like-minded friends and those who see it primarily as a competition and a chance to show off.

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KongaMan and others who may be like minded,

 

I agree there may be some that look at a meet a "competition and a chance to show off", but I would submit that many look at the intention of judging is to compare one's vehicle to as coming from the factory as built, which is not a competition amongst owners.  There may be some that may be considered as "showing off", put I think they are declining in numbers. 

 

Perhaps we should consider simply mention the car owner's name and have each stand up to be recognized and ask them to come to a certain area to pick up their awards and allow others to take photos. This would be done after the final remarks allowing others to stay and have discussions.  That allows the banquet to me completed and allow those that want to chat to do so.  After all, the car gets the award, not the owner no matter how much was spent on a restoration.  One of my cars has a gold senior and AACA Senior and another Silver and the third a Driven Award, and AACA HPOF.  I do not think it important to walk to receive the award.  But, I want the awards distributed at the meet, so the club does not need to carry them to a meet and than have to take back and mail them to an owner.

 

John

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Most of the National Meets, that i have brought a car to, I have shown it as display only.

Even though I am heavily involved with the judging program,  I do not care about submitting my car for judging for the most part. I do have one car that is a Gold / Senior car, but I have also participated in a 2000 mile plus tour with that same car. BCA National Meets are currently set up for members to get the most of that fellowship regardless of their reason for attending. Some come to see other cars and get ideas for cars, that they are restoring, others to buy Buick parts from our vendors , some to have their cars judged. The greatest fun to me is seeing the cars and getting together with my many BCA friends. Why are we hung up on why other members attend?

Edited by Jack Welch (see edit history)
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on a totally different note, I am wondering if anyone can guide me through the process of editing my Info , such as cars listed. I have been trying to figure out how to add my 1938 Buick, and can not seem to find the correct path to do that.

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3 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

on a totally different note, I am wondering if anyone can guide me through the process of editing my Info , such as cars listed. I have been trying to figure out how to add my 1938 Buick, and can not seem to find the correct path to do that.

Jack...PM sent.

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21 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

It is not expected that modifieds will be included as, they use a different type of judging, and will probably prefer to park in the modified Class. Modifieds span a great number of years and this  would put too great a strain on the organization of the meet, if they prefer to be judged.

I am also sure that any modified that wants "display only" and wants to be chronologically parked could be accommodated.

Jack,

    Although some do not expect the prewar Modified Division Buick owners will want to park all-together with the prewar Buicks, they will be welcome to do so if they choose to park all-together.  I will be sending a memo to all registered prewar Buick owners inviting them to park with the Prewar Division.  Many believe that parking this way will enhance the appreciation of each Buick when original, unrestored, and modified Buicks can be seen all-together.

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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26 minutes ago, Mark Shaw said:

Jack,

    Although some do not expect the prewar Modified Division Buick owners will want to park all-together with the prewar Buicks, they will be welcome to do so if they choose to park all-together.  I will be sending a memo to all registered prewar Buick owners inviting them to park with the Prewar Division.  Many believe that parking this way will enhance the appreciation of each Buick when original, unrestored, and modified Buicks can be seen all-together.

 

Agreed, although it would be ideal if they were clearly delineated into which category they fit.  For judging, the different colour of placards work, but for those not involved in judging, new to the BCA, or any members of the public it may not be as obvious.  It bothers me to hear or read of a "restored" vehicle that is modified.  It has nothing to do with the vehicle, but the language used, which confuses the observer.

 

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1 hour ago, Thriller said:

 

Agreed, although it would be ideal if they were clearly delineated into which category they fit.  For judging, the different colour of placards work, but for those not involved in judging, new to the BCA, or any members of the public it may not be as obvious.  It bothers me to hear or read of a "restored" vehicle that is modified.  It has nothing to do with the vehicle, but the language used, which confuses the observer.

 

 

 I think BCA member observers will not be too confused. If they are, probably have not been paying attention. As for the public observer, well, is the meet for them or US?  

 

  Let's just TRY to have fun and enjoy one another. 

 

  Ben

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On 4/16/2018 at 2:08 PM, Jack Welch said:

on a totally different note, I am wondering if anyone can guide me through the process of editing my Info , such as cars listed. I have been trying to figure out how to add my 1938 Buick, and can not seem to find the correct path to do that.

wait you have a 38 Buick????

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On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:46 AM, Thriller said:

 

Agreed, although it would be ideal if they were clearly delineated into which category they fit.  For judging, the different colour of placards work, but for those not involved in judging, new to the BCA, or any members of the public it may not be as obvious.  It bothers me to hear or read of a "restored" vehicle that is modified.  It has nothing to do with the vehicle, but the language used, which confuses the observer.

 

Derek,

     Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the windshield placards from past meets also spelled out the judging category of each vehicle.  There should be no confusion about judging class if you take the time to read the placards.

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

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Just as on the assembly line, "color codes" work best rather than taking time to read/mis-read printed images.

 

Just an observation,

NTX5467

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5 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

Derek,

     Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the windshield placards from past meets also spelled out the judging category of each vehicle.  There should be no confusion about judging class if you take the time to read the placards.

 

Thinking it through, I believe you are correct. I do seem to recall that "Display " or "Modified " is written out, although relying on my memory isn't necessarily that smart. 

 

I think the the bigger issue could be that those cards don't work as well on many of the pre war models so they are hidden, on the seat, or perhaps rained on if on the exterior of the windshield. 

 

I'm not trying to argue nor belabour the point; I'm just trying to think through making it easier for people to know what they are looking at. Particularly for the early stuff, I don't have a good grasp on identifying the year or series. What about my wife, who's been a regular attendee who is less familiar than I am?

 

Just some thoughts. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Thriller said:

I think the the bigger issue could be that those cards don't work as well on many of the pre war models so they are hidden, on the seat, or perhaps rained on if on the exterior of the windshield. 

Derek,

    Again, Buick owners will have plenty of time during the meet to secure the cards to the inside of the windshields so rain is not a problem. 

Perhaps some will remember to bring some scotch tape...

 

From the BCA Judging Manual; DUTIES OF THE OWNER/EXHIBITOR Section F:

You must have all of the proper registration materials with your vehicle and they must be properly displayed. The windshield card must be affixed to the windshield and the judging form must be completely filled out and presented to the Pre-Qualification Check team where it will be collected for use of the field judging team.

 

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I wore out a printer, printing color coded placards for the 2008 NON-JUDGED show in Flint in 2008, the placard colors matched the signs for the class parking  how hard was that? Duh? This whole parking thing is way out of control  and has been, get a printout from the registrar and make it happen, the excuses are stupid, maybe you all should not have shunned the folks with the real Buick's in the '70s aka Gran Sports they would have children and grandchildren that could be our new fans and volunteers! but that decision was made to divide the fans, oh well, I guess there are a few of us as exception's, but not many! Carry on..............

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You could always park in the public lot in front of the hotel and let other folks worry where they are "supposed" to be.  You'd save a little money that way, and you'd still get to stroll thorough the display field.  After all, you already know what your car looks like, right?

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On 4/17/2018 at 8:48 PM, 38Buick 80C said:

wait you have a 38 Buick????

Brian: I  do have a 1938 Buick model 41. It is an all original car, including paint, chrome, interior, etc. I have been chasing this car for over 40 years, and the owner turned 90 last year and decided to downsize and get rid of that  "old Buick. because it is just like a modern car". He kept his Model A Ford. 

I drove the '38 to the NY Regional meet that John DiFore and his Chapter put on last Fall. A total of 450 miles round trip for it. It ran great all the way and back. The owner had put radial wide whites on it. I will go back to bias plys , trying to decide to go with white wall or black wall.

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On 4/14/2018 at 12:11 PM, NTX5467 said:

Perhaps, we need to consider "Divisional" parking rather than "Class Parking"?  Assign judging groups to these divisions, with the related divisional judging have class divisions within them?  That might also need to include a "General Population" division.  Not sure we need to deploy Porta-Potties every 75 feet, though, but it might be considered.

 

Actually the more I think about it I sort of like that idea Willis, and could be easily workable. For instance,  not in favor of modifieds being spread over the entire lot, when I want to see the modifieds, I don't want to have to go hiking all over the field looking for them. just a counterpoint Mark, just a counterpoint...

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Just for the record, the windshield cards are different colors AND they are spelled out.  So, if we were to have 4 Buicks of the same year parked side by side, one 400 point judged, one Display only, one Modified, and one Archival, it is pretty easy to tell which one is in which judging category.

 

 

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I really don't see what the big deal is over parking by years.  Logically speaking, look at the judging categories.  Except for the special Buick models, it is all by year anyway.  I think most people would agree that the Rivieras (Class O), Gran Sports (Class P), GN and T-types (Class Q), Reattas (Class R), Professional and Specialty Buicks (Class S), and Race Cars (Class T) are different enough to stay in their own area.  As a spectator, if one was interested in Rivieras or Reattas, they could go to the Riviera or Reatta section and see the evolution of that special model year by year.  Same can be said for the others recently mentioned.  All other classes (A - N) are already organized by year, and therefore, are already parked according to year.  

 

The only real argument is what to do with the Archival cars during judging.  If we can figure out how to judge the Archivals when they are all over the field, we got it. 

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