BCA 2018 Denver Meet Prewar Buick Parking

[Mark Shaw]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:46 AM, Thriller said:

 

Agreed, although it would be ideal if they were clearly delineated into which category they fit.  For judging, the different colour of placards work, but for those not involved in judging, new to the BCA, or any members of the public it may not be as obvious.  It bothers me to hear or read of a "restored" vehicle that is modified.  It has nothing to do with the vehicle, but the language used, which confuses the observer.

 

Derek,

     Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the windshield placards from past meets also spelled out the judging category of each vehicle.  There should be no confusion about judging class if you take the time to read the placards.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Just as on the assembly line, "color codes" work best rather than taking time to read/mis-read printed images.

 

Just an observation,

NTX5467

[Thriller]

5 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

Derek,

     Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the windshield placards from past meets also spelled out the judging category of each vehicle.  There should be no confusion about judging class if you take the time to read the placards.

 

Thinking it through, I believe you are correct. I do seem to recall that "Display " or "Modified " is written out, although relying on my memory isn't necessarily that smart. 

 

I think the the bigger issue could be that those cards don't work as well on many of the pre war models so they are hidden, on the seat, or perhaps rained on if on the exterior of the windshield. 

 

I'm not trying to argue nor belabour the point; I'm just trying to think through making it easier for people to know what they are looking at. Particularly for the early stuff, I don't have a good grasp on identifying the year or series. What about my wife, who's been a regular attendee who is less familiar than I am?

 

Just some thoughts. 

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

1 hour ago, Thriller said:

I think the the bigger issue could be that those cards don't work as well on many of the pre war models so they are hidden, on the seat, or perhaps rained on if on the exterior of the windshield. 

Derek,

    Again, Buick owners will have plenty of time during the meet to secure the cards to the inside of the windshields so rain is not a problem. 

Perhaps some will remember to bring some scotch tape...

 

From the BCA Judging Manual; DUTIES OF THE OWNER/EXHIBITOR Section F:

You must have all of the proper registration materials with your vehicle and they must be properly displayed. The windshield card must be affixed to the windshield and the judging form must be completely filled out and presented to the Pre-Qualification Check team where it will be collected for use of the field judging team.

 

[BUICK RACER]

I wore out a printer, printing color coded placards for the 2008 NON-JUDGED show in Flint in 2008, the placard colors matched the signs for the class parking  how hard was that? Duh? This whole parking thing is way out of control  and has been, get a printout from the registrar and make it happen, the excuses are stupid, maybe you all should not have shunned the folks with the real Buick's in the '70s aka Gran Sports they would have children and grandchildren that could be our new fans and volunteers! but that decision was made to divide the fans, oh well, I guess there are a few of us as exception's, but not many! Carry on..............

[KongaMan]

You could always park in the public lot in front of the hotel and let other folks worry where they are "supposed" to be.  You'd save a little money that way, and you'd still get to stroll thorough the display field.  After all, you already know what your car looks like, right?

[Jack Welch]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:48 PM, 38Buick 80C said:

wait you have a 38 Buick????

Brian: I  do have a 1938 Buick model 41. It is an all original car, including paint, chrome, interior, etc. I have been chasing this car for over 40 years, and the owner turned 90 last year and decided to downsize and get rid of that  "old Buick. because it is just like a modern car". He kept his Model A Ford. 

I drove the '38 to the NY Regional meet that John DiFore and his Chapter put on last Fall. A total of 450 miles round trip for it. It ran great all the way and back. The owner had put radial wide whites on it. I will go back to bias plys , trying to decide to go with white wall or black wall.

[MrEarl]

On 4/14/2018 at 12:11 PM, NTX5467 said:

Perhaps, we need to consider "Divisional" parking rather than "Class Parking"?  Assign judging groups to these divisions, with the related divisional judging have class divisions within them?  That might also need to include a "General Population" division.  Not sure we need to deploy Porta-Potties every 75 feet, though, but it might be considered.

 

Actually the more I think about it I sort of like that idea Willis, and could be easily workable. For instance,  not in favor of modifieds being spread over the entire lot, when I want to see the modifieds, I don't want to have to go hiking all over the field looking for them. just a counterpoint Mark, just a counterpoint...

[TxBuicks]

Just for the record, the windshield cards are different colors AND they are spelled out.  So, if we were to have 4 Buicks of the same year parked side by side, one 400 point judged, one Display only, one Modified, and one Archival, it is pretty easy to tell which one is in which judging category.

 

 

[TxBuicks]

I really don't see what the big deal is over parking by years.  Logically speaking, look at the judging categories.  Except for the special Buick models, it is all by year anyway.  I think most people would agree that the Rivieras (Class O), Gran Sports (Class P), GN and T-types (Class Q), Reattas (Class R), Professional and Specialty Buicks (Class S), and Race Cars (Class T) are different enough to stay in their own area.  As a spectator, if one was interested in Rivieras or Reattas, they could go to the Riviera or Reatta section and see the evolution of that special model year by year.  Same can be said for the others recently mentioned.  All other classes (A - N) are already organized by year, and therefore, are already parked according to year.  

 

The only real argument is what to do with the Archival cars during judging.  If we can figure out how to judge the Archivals when they are all over the field, we got it. 

[Jack Welch]

2 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 

Actually the more I think about it I sort of like that idea Willis, and could be easily workable. For instance,  not in favor of modifieds being spread over the entire lot, when I want to see the modifieds, I don't want to have to go hiking all over the field looking for them. just a counterpoint Mark, just a counterpoint...

In Denver, the modified could be parked prior to the Saturday judging in a chronological order, if an owner so chose, if I remember correctly , the modified have a division of their own and may very well want all together parking in their division as they have always had. On Saturday during Judging, all modified cars  (being judged) will be  be judged will be in the modified classes. exactly for the reason mentioned above.

 

[Mark Shaw]

7 minutes ago, Jack Welch said:

In Denver, the modified could be parked prior to the Saturday judging in a chronological order, if an owner so chose, if I remember correctly , the modified have a division of their own and may very well want all together parking in their division as they have always had. On Saturday during Judging, all modified cars  (being judged) will be  be judged will be in the modified classes. exactly for the reason mentioned above.

 

Jack,

     As previously posted, all prewar Buick owners, including the modified owners, can choose to park all-together with the PWD for the entire meet.  

[KongaMan]

2 hours ago, TxBuicks said:

I think most people would agree that the Rivieras (Class O), Gran Sports (Class P), GN and T-types (Class Q), Reattas (Class R), Professional and Specialty Buicks (Class S), and Race Cars (Class T) are different enough to stay in their own area. ...  All other classes (A - N) are already organized by year, and therefore, are already parked according to year. 

 

I think most people would agree that 20 classes is about 18 too many.  You've got production vehicles and non-production vehicles.  They're all Buicks; dividing the cars divides the owners also. 

 

2 hours ago, TxBuicks said:

The only real argument is what to do with the Archival cars during judging.  If we can figure out how to judge the Archivals when they are all over the field, we got it. 

 

The other real argument is whether it is beneficial to have such a relentless focus on judging.  

[Jack Welch]

1 hour ago, Mark Shaw said:

Jack,

     As previously posted, all prewar Buick owners, including the modified owners, can choose to park all-together with the PWD for the entire meet.  Mark 

 

Mark : Not sure how the modifieds got in to the discussion on parking. It has NEVER been a part of the discussion. I can guarantee you that on Saturday, The modifieds will be in the modified Classes . Not in prewar. They are judged by the people in their Division. The modified classes span all years of modified Buicks, from Reattas to `1905 Buicks (if such were to exist). We are not going to have the modified judges running all over the show field to try and get their job done. CoOperation is one thing , chaos is another. 

I frankly am not going to involved in any further discussion on this subject. 

On Saturday during Judging, all modified cars  (being judged) will be  be judged will be in the modified classes. exactly for the reason mentioned above.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Jack Welch
grammar (see edit history)

[Thriller]

7 hours ago, TxBuicks said:

 

 

The only real argument is what to do with the Archival cars during judging.  If we can figure out how to judge the Archivals when they are all over the field, we got it. 

 

We did it quite easily in Bellevue in 2007. 

 

[Mark Shaw]

21 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

Mark : Not sure how the modifieds got in to the discussion on parking. It has NEVER been a part of the discussion

Jack,

    It was brought into the discussion because you made it an issue here.  The agreement with the BOD and Chief Judge is for all prewar cars.  As stated previously, "all prewar Buick owners, including the modified owners, can choose to park all-together with the PWD for the entire meet." 

 

Frankly, it is a matter of many members just being tired of having Judges decide where everyone must park for the entire meet to make it convenient for judging that only happens on the last day of the meet.  It is all about choice; All members, including the Modified Buick owners are welcome to join the PWD parking arrangements so they can socialize and compare their cars with other similar cars and share their experiences.  I just learned this week that all the cars will need to be moved for Saturday's judging anyway.  So if anyone wants to move to segregated judging classes for Saturday, it should not be a problem if they notify the parking committee. 

[Pomeroy41144]

I drove a pre-war Buick to the 2013 South Bend National Meet.  When I arrived we checked into the Driven Class area, which was way away from the main concourse area.  While our car was being looked at by the judges there were a few people in the Driven class who were angry that the Driven Class parking was so far off the beaten track.  After a few minutes of conversation with these members, the judges on hand told the Driven Class people that we could go park on the Concourse after judging.  We did.  We were able to park our 1941 Limited next to a 1942 Limited and a 1941 Super.  We were very happy that our un-modified Driven class 1941 Buick was allowed to park with the 41s.  I really do believe that for pre-war years the point-judged cars, the driven cars and the  un-modified display cars be parked together and arranged by year.  The modified cars should be on their own.  I would not want to park my nice original next to a slammed 41 low rider with pearl paint.  This is not some fast food cruise night. 

 

In the Early Ford V-8 Club of America there are six categories:  Concourse; Dearborn; Touring (A and B); Rouge (preservation); Display/Modified.  With the exception of the Display class, which are grouped separately, all other cars are grouped by year regardless of judging category.  I like this.  I like seeing all the 38s with the 38s, all the 41s with the 41s, etc.  Having the cars parked chronologically by year makes for a much better National Meet experience.  I know many of us in the Ford club do not want the modifieds on the concourse with the other categories. The parking for the Ford folks is a lot easier because of the limited span of years, etc.  And I can see the point of BCA planners of having the post war cars grouped the way they are.  I loved seeing all those Skylarks parked together at Brookfield. 

 

I would like to thank the Driven Class folks who were complaining that July day in South Bend; the voicing of their concerns paid off --- we Driven Class people were allowed to park with the other Buicks on the field.  Much better than parking way on the other side of the hotel property. We were able to sit with and talk with more Buick people on the concourse.   In the future I would hope that BCA would display judged pre-war cars by year and keep the modified cars separate. 

 

 

.

.

.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Well, crap, I have to jump in here!

  Pomeroy, I must have been at a different meet than you at South Bend. I parked with the others behind the Hotel until Sat morning. Moved to the Driven area for judging then back.  I had no problem with that.  And I believe it was determined that fence was erected after the venue was contracted for.  Not BCA fault.

 

" I would not want to park my nice original next to a slammed 41 lowrider with pearl paint. This is not some fast food cruise night."

    That is about as elitist as you can get, right there!  I will watch for yours and be SURE to not park near you with my slightly modified.  Wouldn't want you embarrassed.

 

  Ben

[dship]

23 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

And I believe it was determined that fence was erected after the venue was contracted for.  Not BCA fault.

 

  Ben

I was one of the judges for the Driven Class at South Bend.  It is a fact that a fence was erected after the venue was contracted for and just before the start of BCA National Meet.  

[Pomeroy41144]

1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Well, crap, I have to jump in here!

  Pomeroy, I must have been at a different meet than you at South Bend. I parked with the others behind the Hotel until Sat morning. Moved to the Driven area for judging then back.  I had no problem with that.  And I believe it was determined that fence was erected after the venue was contracted for.  Not BCA fault.

 

" I would not want to park my nice original next to a slammed 41 lowrider with pearl paint. This is not some fast food cruise night."

    That is about as elitist as you can get, right there!  I will watch for yours and be SURE to not park near you with my slightly modified.  Wouldn't want you embarrassed.

 

  Ben

 

 

This was on Saturday.  I was not there all week, so I can't attest to what was going on there then.  I was not one of the folks who were crabbin about the fence and the location, but when we were being judged someone was.  Don't know who they were.  When the judge got done with us, they told us we could park at concourse.  That's how I remember it.  Not casting any aspersions,  just relating a parking issue I witnessed.  My father was present and remembers almost the same.  Sorry for the mix up.  I don't know about elitist, because I am not that.  I really don't go to a Buick National Meet to see hotrods.  OK? 

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[Pomeroy41144]

2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

  Ben

 

 

Ben, I am sorry if I offended you.  It was not my intention. 

 

Thanks.

 

P41144

[MrEarl]

1 hour ago, Pomeroy41144 said:

 

 

Ben, I am sorry if I offended you.  It was not my intention. 

 

Thanks.

 

P41144

 

 

offend Ben, tha's not easy to do  

 

Thanks   For keeping this thread civil guys ??

 

[MrEarl]

Can we please keep comments constructive       

[NTX5467]

Rehashing what went on or did not go on in South Bend AND why only rekindles some poor memories for some.  That meet was an apparent "learning event" for later meets, I suspect.  I'll admit that I wasn't there, but I've heard plenty about it.

 

I know that some are not as oriented toward judging as others might be, but it's a necessary part of any marque's national meet.  One way or another, whenever two of more of similar items are in the same place at the same time, eventually there will be some comparisons of which are better than others, which means "judging" of some sort.  For the BCA's purposes and orientations, what other groups do for their judged national meets (class structure, number, etc) is for that group and should not always be used as a pattern the BCA allegedly should follow.  There might be some aspects of those meets that might be adapted, but to claim the BCA should follow something exactly like the others do is incorrect.  All car club groups are different, with different people who have different orientations of how they desire to do things.  

 

What happened in the past is in the past and we should be looking toward making things better in the future. 

 

I've seen when people parked as they might desire, then left their cars in those places, when it came to show (judging) day, it was always a complication to track those owners down to request they move their cars show the 400 point cars could be parked in their designated spaces on the show field.  This can always be an issue when the general show car parking later becomes the segmented show field.  So, having the vehicles parked in their general designated area, from day one, can be advantageous, all things considered. 

 

Some of the most onerous and intense activities at a BCA National Meet is the judging and related activities.  Being able to make that happen as easily and expeditiously as possible had a multiplier effect as it also affects trophy production/layout for the awards banquet.  All of which happen mere hours from each other!  So, getting the judging completed "on time" or "ahead of schedule" is the preferred outcome.  Perhaps, when and if the judging activities become more "digital" than "analog", some of these concerns might become less of an issue?

 

In the mean time, everybody please focus on having a good time at the meets.  It seems there's a bit of obsessing about a small and important segment of the meet, rather than the many other aspects of the meets that everybody always mentions being enjoyable AND reasons they attend.

 

Respectfully,

Willis Bell  20811

[KongaMan]

5 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

I've seen when people parked as they might desire, then left their cars in those places, when it came to show (judging) day, it was always a complication to track those owners down to request they move their cars show the 400 point cars could be parked in their designated spaces on the show field.

 

Of course, the assumption there is that if you're not getting judged, you're not worth looking at.

 

Question: what percentage of cars sign up for 400-point judging?  If it's low enough, might it not be easier to have them move to a designated judging area?  Because if it's all about making it easy for the judges, what could be easier than staying in one place and having the cars come to you?  

[NTX5467]

In many cases, those cars WERE show cars, but they were left parked in a space that was needed by OTHER show cars on show day.  As far as I'm concerned, EVERY Buick that comes to the event, even if it's in the spectator parking area, is worth looking at.  Many times, I see cars in the spectator parking that I like more than some in the judged vehicle parking area.

 

Willis Bell  20811

[Jack Welch]

10 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

In many cases, those cars WERE show cars, but they were left parked in a space that was needed by OTHER show cars on show day.  As far as I'm concerned, EVERY Buick that comes to the event, even if it's in the spectator parking area, is worth looking at.  Many times, I see cars in the spectator parking that I like more than some in the judged vehicle parking area.

 

Willis Bell  20811

Willis , Thank you for your very perceptive views on this. Random car parking happens to some degree at every meet. This year in Denver, it could especially be a problem because we have to move the entire show field in one morning. This sort of thing happens , every year. The fence at South Bend, the sale of the parking lot that was to be the show field at Plano, and this year the Denver conducting negations with the hotel for promised parking right up until a week ago. I have said it before, but the host BCA Chapters that run National Meets and the National Meet Committee endeavor to put on the best possible meet for ALL attendees . Every aspect gets hammered out and rehammered out and a plan B established in case of problems. It is very discouraging to all concerned, to see this much dialog about a non issue such as where a car gets parked. 

There are certain facts that never change. #1 Many BCA members want their cars judged. #2  It requires a cadre of judges and admin people (all volunteers, who lose a big part of their free time) to get this done. #3 The Chief Judge for that National Meet (this year, that would be me) has the responsibility to organize the show field, and the Assistant Head judge carries out the plan to get it done. #4 It takes a number of parking volunteers to get the job done. The overall success of this is directly related to the number of members that step up ti the plate to implement the process. # 5, many BCA members do not want their cars judged. They have to be accommodated in the same manner as judged cars. How that is accomplished is directly connected to what ever show field layout we have to deal with at any given Meet. #6 Many hotels are utilizing smaller parking lots than they previously did. This is directly related to the cost of the land they sit on. Some of the more "desirable venues" actually present a bigger challenge to come up with suitable parking for a National Meet.

#7 (and this is my opinion) This whole parking situation could have been sorted out with a ten minute discussion between the interested parties. (Please let's not have a lot of finger pointing here, as Chief judge for this meet, I was involved in all of the perking discussion from the git go and there are already enough incorrect statements and assumptions on this thread) 

#8 The attitude of the BOD and the National Meet Committee is that Chronological parking is a goal of every BCA meet to the extant possible.  

 

Lets just end this thread and get on with something constructive.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Jack Welch
Grammar (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

11 minutes ago, Jack Welch said:

Willis , Thank you for your very perceptive views on this. Random car parking happens to some degree at every meet. This year in Denver, it could especially be a problem because we have to move the entire show field in one morning. This sort of thing happens , every year. The fence at South Bend, the sale of the parking lot that was to be the show field at Plano, and this year the Denver conducting negations with the hotel for promised parking right up until a week ago. I have said it before, but the host BCA Chapters that run National Meets and the National Meet Committee endeavor to put on the best possible meet for ALL attendees . Every aspect gets hammered out and rehammered out and a plan B established in case of problems. It is very discouraging to all concerned, to see this much dialog about a non issue such as where a car gets parked. 

There are certain facts that never change. #1 Many BCA members want their cars judged. #2  It requires a cadre of judges and admin people (all volunteers, who lose a big part of their free time) to get this done. #3 The Chief Judge for that National Meet (this year, that would be me) has the responsibility to organize the show field, and the Assistant Head judge carries out the plan to get it done. #4 It takes a number of parking volunteers to get the job done. The overall success of this is directly related to the number of members that step up ti the plate to implement the process. # 5, many BCA members do not want their cars judged. They have to be accommodated in the same manner as judged cars. How that is accomplished is directly connected to what ever show field layout we have to deal with at any given Meet. #6 Many hotels are utilizing smaller parking lots than they previously did. This is directly related to the cost of the land they sit on. Some of the more "desirable venues" actually present a bigger challenge to come up with suitable parking for a National Meet.

#7 (and this is my opinion) This whole parking situation could have been sorted out with a ten minute discussion between the interested parties. (Please let's not have a lot of finger pointing here, as Chief judge for this meet, I was involved in all of the perking discussion from the git go and there are already enough incorrect statements and assumptions on this thread) 

#8 The attitude of the BOD and the National Meet Committee is that Chronological parking is a goal of every BCA meet to the extant possible.  

 

Lets just end this thread and get on with something constructive.

 

  HEAR! HEAR!  Although, it has been an interesting and entertaining thread.

 

  Ben

[Larry Schramm]

20 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

I know that some are not as oriented toward judging as others might be, but it's a necessary part of any marque's national meet. 

Respectfully,

Willis Bell  20811

 

Not true on the judging.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[BUICK RACER]

22 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

Not true on the judging.

Having fun with friends and enjoying the cars, used to be the priority ask my friend Joe T! I think this thread has run it's course and basically was totally unnecessary, sorry Mark!

[MrEarl]

Personally I think it has been a rather interesting and learning conversation. Nobody totally out of line and some very good points brought out. For sure it seems to be a never ending conversation but I consider it a worthwhile one. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, BUICK RACER said:

Having fun with friends and enjoying the cars, used to be the priority ask my friend Joe T! I think this thread has run it's course and basically was totally unnecessary, sorry Mark!

 

 Hey, I am with you!  What corner of the parking lot shall we meet in. Ias Joe coming?   Seriously, would like to meet him some day. 

 

  See everyone there.  Hopefully.

 

  Ben

[BUICK RACER]

11 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Hey, I am with you!  What corner of the parking lot shall we meet in. Ias Joe coming?   Seriously, would like to meet him some day. 

 

  See everyone there.  Hopefully.

 

  Ben

No, Joe has sold the cars and no longer drives, he's right by the phone all day so give him a call! 81zero -655-898eight any of you he still does email too! Now if had a parking lot layout, but last year we met at Larry's truck, we'll have plan a plan.

[Larry Schramm]

Not bringing the truck to Denver.  Not sure that I will be able to attend because of distance, etc....

[NTX5467]

16 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

Not true on the judging.

 

Please allow me to explain . . . the "judging" I was referring to does not have to be formalized or "by the points", but the informal judgments we might make (on our own) about the vehicles we might see.  "The owner could have done better on __________ than they did"  or "The owner really did a good job of re-creating the correct look on that ________".  These can be passing thoughts or result in congratulatory comments to the owner for what one feels they did a good job of . . . as we might walk by.  If the "How'd you do that?" conversation might start, then information of techniques and execution can progress to the betterment of all involved, which is great and is what we hope might happen anytime vehicles are on display.  WIN-WIN!

 

I also know that some people send their cars to "shops" with the expectation of an award-winning vehicle as the result.  Nothing wrong with that as long as what's done is accurate for the car and time it was built.  If the "shop" restores it incorrectly (for the same money) by BCA judging standards. then they might not automatically get an award at a BCA National Meet judging.  By the same token, I've seen some "owner-restored/refurbished" vehicles that were better than what many "shops" have done.  Be that as it may.

 

Personally, I like to see unmolested original vehicles or vehicles restored in a manner that is correct for the brand of vehicle and when it was built.  Such a car might look "bad" next to a shop-restored vehicle that is obviously ore-restored and not correctly restored.  By the same token, that more original vehicle, next to the over-restored vehicle, can graphically indicate the over-restoration aspect of things.  Unfortunately, the general public might perceive the "perfect" vehicle as the correctly-restored one.  That's my observation.

 

But my main orientation was that whenever two of the same or similar items are in the same place at the same time, some sort of "mine is better" thoughts might happen.  Don't have to be formalized or written down, but it still can happen.  Or "That's better than mine, so I need to do a better job!" thoughts can happen, too.  The more natural "competition" aspect of things.  From there, things can get more intense with awards, formal judging documents, recognitions, etc.  For some, just being a part of the whole event/experience is enough reward for them, which is also good.

 

As for the National Meet hosted by Mr; Bulgari, I suspect that was an event where many revelations were made regarding how to elevate the level of correct restorations, although it was a non-judged meet.  Recall the comments of "I wanted my car judged that year, as I live ____ miles away"?  Some do have an expectation of BCA Judging at the National Meets, although others might not like that.  Variable situations and orientations.

 

Willis Bell  20811

Edited April 22, 2018 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Judging by definition is ranking / dividing people, cars, etc..  into categories.  If not, why are there different levels of medal, awards, trophies, etc?  It is not used to bring persons together in a common interest but to segregate individuals and place a rank on them through their efforts or their possessions.  In the greater society, that ranking is usually defined by the amount of money one makes or has.  This is true from capitalism to communism.   

 

Even the Allentown event had some judging.

 

I believe that the best way to stop the member slide and gain members is to would be to consider doing all of the judging activities at regional events where it is close for members to attend and make the national meet a time for friendship and meeting new members. 

 

At the national meets, the only awards given should be to individuals that have helped promote the hobby and the club.  The number of acknowledgements should be limited to no more than 5 or 6.  Post judging results at the regional meets in the program for the national meet and online or the Bugle.

 

Generally speaking the unjudged national meets have been the best attended.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Yes, the national meets that have been unjudged were probably so well-attended due to the reason for being there.  The Buick Centennial in Flint, the Bulgari compound, etc.

 

As for judging at the regionals, then posting the results at the national meets, that could be done.  Only issue is that most regional meets are much smaller than the one national meet, so the membership would not have the opportunity of seeing nearly as many Buicks in one place at one time, nor possibly find the same amount of swap meet parts, and other things that normally happen at national meets that don't happen at most regional meets.  Some national clubs do segmented national meets, one in each quadrant of the nation, it seems.  Others do the one national meet, as does the BCA and others.  Perhaps those other brands of cars can't drive as far as Buicks can?

 

I suspect there are no really good answers of how to do these things that might please more peoples' orientations of how things ought to be.  Just as it's fairly difficult to predict how many trophies to build for each year's meet.  LIke the weather, you never really know until it's past.

 

One way or another, have fun and enjoy the meets as much as possible!  Nothing's "in stone" that you have to participate in the judged car shows unless YOU want to.  If you desire to do the Driven Class, DO IT.  If you're looking to gain information on doing your car, make those connections and ask those questions, building a network you can use if needed.  IF you desire to dress a little nicer and enjoy a nice meal, attend the banquet.  There's a LOT more to the national meets than just car judging, even if you desire to participate in a judged show activity.  Oh, and don't forget THE TOURS!    And, when it's all over, thank those involved for making it all possible.  If you fly in and grab a rental car, fine.  If you drive your Buick, you're building more memories that can be related to others in the future. 

 

Just don't let the idea that there are several judged car shows at the meet keep you away, even if it might be a centerpiece of the event, as that's NOT all the whole event is about.  Some might feel it's more important than others do, which is fine.  If you might desire to walk through the show field, that's fine.  The whole thing is that YOU make the event what you want it to be by what you participate in.  If you desire to stay in your hotel room and look out the window, enjoy that too.  I highly suspect that some attend the BCA National Meets each year to get their "Buick Batteries" recharged and become more motivated to engage in and enjoy their own unique Buick projects back home.  What ever trips your trigger! 

 

Your time, your money, your orientations, your determination of how much Buick-ness you might be able to tolerate in one long weekend!  Remember the mid-century orientations of "horizon expansion"?  The yearly BCA National Meet is ONE way to do that!  The horizons you might see through your Buick's windshield and/or the horizons of your expanded knowledge of Buicks in general.  Either way, enjoy!

 

Willis Bell  20811

[Larry Schramm]

8 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

Just don't let the idea that there are several judged car shows at the meet keep you away, even if it might be a centerpiece of the event, as that's NOT all the whole event is about.  Some might feel it's more important than others do, which is fine.  If you might desire to walk through the show field, that's fine.  The whole thing is that YOU make the event what you want it to be by what you participate in. 

 

Willis Bell  20811

 

When the field lay out is mandated to be laid out according to judged classes, that is the over riding priority, not friendship.   If the national meet layout was according to model year from oldest to newest, then I would be inclined to agree with you.  The last few shows contrary to being requested, the prewar brass and nickel cars were parked all over the place, but Brookfield was the closest to the request.

 

When like years cars are not parked together, there is a very large lack of networking opportunities to help keeping our cars on the road. This applies to a teens Buick equally to Reattas.  This applies to all model years and models of cars.

 

Just curious, when was the last national you went to?  I do not remember meeting you the last few years.

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:18 PM, KongaMan said:

Question: what percentage of cars sign up for 400-point judging?  If it's low enough, might it not be easier to have them move to a designated judging area?  Because if it's all about making it easy for the judges, what could be easier than staying in one place and having the cars come to you?  

KongaMan,

     It seems nobody want to stick their neck out to answer to your question.  I believe it varies depending on judging categories and where the meet is located.  Generally less than half of all Buick owners choose to be judged in all categories.  Some will take issue with this, but I believe the formal 400 point judging is typically only for about 1/3 of the total cars at national meets.  Since I was involved in the Portland meet, I do have those numbers shown below.  Adding the Display Only & Driven Class clearly shows that 48% were not judged.  I think it is time for the BCA membership to re-evaluate the level of emphasis and $$ spent on judging.

Portland National Meet Data

Some statistics from the 2014 Portland National Meet:
443 separate registrations
831 people officially registered
23 separate vendors taking up 43 spots
8 Buicks for Sale

283 Total Buicks were registered:
98 (34.6%) were formally judged in the 400 point system (8 of those were formal Senior status)
26 (9.2%) were judged as Archival / Unrestored
67 (23.7%) were in the Driven class
22 (7.8%) were Modified Buicks
70 (24.7%) were Display Only

     

[old-tank]

2 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

formal 400 point judging is typically only for about 1/3 of the total cars at national meets.

All of the cars I take to meets recently are 'driven' or 'display'.  All were previously judged, I proved  a point that 7 years of work that I did myself will get you a Senior;  I also proved that you can get  Senior on a driven to the meet car;  I had a blast doing that and will fight to keep that available to others.  Many of the  'driven' or 'display' cars are retired judged cars.

I fail to see how someones' idea of 'fun' is affecting your ability to have fun.   

Who gives a rat's ass how many are judged...you do I guess.