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Early brass era car?


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I'd be obliged if anyone out there knows the make and year? Looks like solid rubber tires. I got it from an old family album. Might be distant relatives. Dunno. They sure loved their hats though!

 

Thanks! 

 

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A big speedster from around 1910. Rounded upper part of the radiator should be a clue. It is a pity they put the plate on the front of the radiator in that time. Makes the cars hard to identify.

 

Tyres are not solid rubber, just very small section by today's standards.

 

Only five hub bolts will narrow the field.

 

Maybe Matheson??

 

 

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I wonder if this might be a Royal Tourist. The round radiator and what looks like removable covers on the hood?

 

The Standard Catalog does not list a speedster amongst Royal Tourist's offerings but.....

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Keiser,

 

Those hubs are six bolt. The OP car's are five.

 

I am not convinced on Royal Tourist. The wheelbase of those was only 114". The OP car looks to be longer and have really tall tyres. I think what we are looking at along the top of the hood is a hinge joint.

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The 1910 plate was blue background with white numbers that were riveted in place. The rivets were easily seen, even when new. The 1911 plate was maroon background with white letters that were stamped and raised, painted white. 1912 was bright red background with white letters/numbers, but was porcelain. My guess, since the photo is dark and in black/white, that this is a 1911 NY plate.

 

Frank

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We just need to find a 1910/11 car with those fenders, along with a rounded radiator. Note the 'edge' bead on the front of the radiator, to be seen between the fender and the license plate.

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Thanks all for the input so far. I've been scanning the internet for a match with no luck. Now my eyes are too blurry to continue. Those squared off front fenders and fully rounded rear fenders are pretty unique, in my searches anyway.

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17 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

A big speedster from around 1910. Rounded upper part of the radiator should be a clue.  It is a pity they put the plate on the front of the radiator in that time. Makes the cars hard to identify.

 

Tyres are not solid rubber, just very small section by today's standards.

 

Only five hub bolts will narrow the field.

 

Maybe Matheson??

 

 

I agree that Matheson  1909-1910 is a contender. Size is right, 5 bolt hubs , fender shape is very similar.  The only problem is the rear fenders. The photo I find of a factory speedster show sweep forward fenders, however the touring has fenders like on our mystery car. Perhaps the owner had a speedster body for a touring chassis or perhaps the fenders were an option.  Roadster photo is from "the old motor" site.

 

Greg in Canada

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Matheson-1024x684.jpg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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The Devil is in the details. Note 4 spoke steering wheel, Matheson appears to be 2 or 3 spoke. Note OP has a very short cowl dimension, hood to dash while Matheson has a foot or so. Also OP has acetylene canister for lights on running board, likely a factory item. Those wide rear fenders should also be a clue as well as the 10 spoke wheels. Finally there are a bunch of exposed levers and gadgetry for the driver to use, and that hood strap might be a factory item, suggesting this car might be British? 

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I agree that the roadster in the photo has a 3 spoke steering wheel ; very odd thing at that, and the mystery car has the much more typical for this era 4 spoke wheel. However the touring seems to have a 4 spoke wheel.  The cowl length is something that might just be a variation depending on who built the speedster body.  The Prestolite tank could just as easily be an after the fact addition as a factory fitment. The early Acetylene generators were somewhat troublesome in use and it was not unusual for owners to fit Prestolite tanks in their place.

 The fenders on the mystery car are quite close to those in the touring advert, actually that illustration is probably the toy tonneau I shouldn't have called a touring.

  I think the car in the  photograph is the factory Roadster model. The mystery car could be speedster version, either special order or one an owner had made up for summer use.  It was not unusual for owners of high quality cars in this era to have a couple of bodies for the same chassis.  One sports for good weather and  a second more formal one for other occasions. The driver controls seem to be much the same on all three cars.

 The hood strap could just as easily be factory or a slightly later addition, I don't think there is anything about the car that suggests a British maker.

Greg in Canada

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1 hour ago, nzcarnerd said:

I don't think either the Matheson or Stoddard-Dayton radiators are a match. The radiator is more towards the shape of the Rainier radiator, but the Rainier car is too small.

Actually I think Rainier is also in contention. The 1911 model F, 50HP Roadster on a 120 " chassis would fit the bill from a size point of view.  I can't find a illustration of one however I don't see anything that would rule it out.  And the front hubs are a match. Rainier's had distinctive louvers along the hood side panels however the mystery photo is taken from an angle where the side panels are obscured by the front fender. The front fenders on Mrs. Cuneo's 1908 Rainier are the older style, however in 1909 they switched to fenders similar to the mystery car. I believe most of the rest of the car was unchanged.

Greg in Canada

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Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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I am not going to be much help with the car identification, but the license plate is a 1911 dealer ( M is for manufacturer ) . The color is maroon with white letters. With 1911 plates the car can't be newer, and obviously looks older.  Bob

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17 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Actually I think Rainier is also in contention. The 1911 model F, 50HP Roadster on a 120 " chassis would fit the bill from a size point of view.  I can't find a illustration of one however I don't see anything that would rule it out.  And the front hubs are a match. Rainier's had distinctive louvers along the hood side panels however the mystery photo is taken from an angle where the side panels are obscured by the front fender. The front fenders on Mrs. Cuneo's 1908 Rainier are the older style, however in 1909 they switched to fenders similar to the mystery car. I believe most of the rest of the car was unchanged.

Greg in Canada

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I take in what you are saying but note on the OP that there is a 'join', along the hood at the level of the top of the fender. A puzzle.

 

It might be an optical illusion but the wheels on the OP  car look to be exceptionally large. Maybe 36 x 4? Or bigger? Olds of that era, the models lesser than the Limited had wheels at least that big. About the only make I can glean info from The Standard Catalog.  I can't find my 1912 Floyd Clymer catalog which list tyre sizes in the car specifications but the 1914 one show plenty of big cars with 27" rims and I recall the 1912 issue shows cars with 28" and 29" rims.

 

I agree on the possibility of the 1911 Rainier. The picture in The Standard Catalog of the 1909 car hints at it.

 

Just need to sort that hood hinge joint.

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Thanks for bringing the hood hinge difference to my attention, I missed that one. By 1909 Rainier progressed to a 4 piece hood. I think the 1908 in the photo would be the last with the central hinge only, 2 piece hood.  My 1912 Staver Chicago { a similar sized car} was sold standard with 28" non- detachable rims , optional with 27"  Firestone detachable. I think 28 " non - detachable wheels  { 36x4, 37x4 1/2] were reasonably common on 40 H.P. and up cars of this era . I should have dug a little deeper for a picture of a 1909-1912 Rainier, several of the details on the 1908 are off.

 There does not seem to be all that many Rainier pictures on google that are not of Mrs.Cuneo and her 1908.

 

Greg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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From what you guys have found so far, I'd put my money on a Rainier based mainly on those elongated 5 bolt front wheel  hubs. Also, I haven't seen too many round radiators.  I doubt now my father took the photo as he would have been only 4 years old in 1911.  It was in his personal album though. He loved cars. Maybe stole it from a later girlfriend.:unsure:

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