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1931 Cadillac Rolling Chassis with Engine and Trans.


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Is there any interest in the rolling chassis with engine and trans. from a 1931 Cadillac convertible coupe?

 

I believe the engine was rebuilt, but am working on getting the details.

 

I might need to keep the frame.  Not sure yet as we just got it and are still in the planning stages.

 

 

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10 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Really a shame to turn a 31 Caddy that looks this sound into a "rod" 

 

1 hour ago, Cabnut said:

I would say they are not aware of the value of a 1931 Cadillac Cabriolet. Worth much more as an original restored car then any configuration they could conceive of as a rodded or customized car. Sad.

 

Mr Fertig : Please don't kill this solid old Cadillac Conv. Cpe. with all parts bagged and tagged. I have read all your posts , and see that you like and collect old "tall clocks" , and are impressed that the old machinery still keeps time. You say you can watch a steam engine run for hours. Ya know what ? These old cars can still run for hours and hours without skipping a beat. It is one of the most rewarding mechanical experiences anyone can have : operating these original "Time Machines" as they were designed to be used. Wanna know how I know this ? I own original , unrestored time machines , and I just get in them and drive for hours and hours , and days and days. They are a '24 and '27 Cadillac's. They were designed to be able to do things no 350/350 hot rod can do. Why don't you treat yourself to the experience ? You know , widen your perspective. Oh yeah. I know. I am just a beat up old man. And I am an intolerant jerk who doesn't understand different strokes for different folks. And I ought to live and let live. And I don't realize that this is your car and you can make another 350/350 out of it if you want to. And I am a narrow minded S.O.B. who hangs out with other like minded members on a stupid forum which tries to preserve automotive history. And I couldn't power shift my way out of a wet paper bag. And I wouldn't know what to do with 300 h.p. , much less 400 or 500. And why don't I mind my own binnitch. And I am a hypocrite who used to tear around eating up '56 Chevvies with a race prepared , XK120MC Jag when I was a kid. And what about that Maserati I had 50 years ago ? And the long distance speed records I set in the mountains of South America when I was just a bit younger than you ? Yeah , I know , I know. Different machines. Exactly ! Different machines. I have a 12 cylinder Mercedes-Benz SL600. Also a M-B E550. They do take some maintainance over what it takes to run a 350/350. Yeah , they do. But what incredible fine tuned machines they are ! Engineering no 350/350 ever will have. But I wonder what a R129 SL would be like with a 350/350 in it ? Now THAT would be cool. There are PLENTY of those still around , some have a bad trans , or a bad mill. But they are not an easily restorable '31 Cad Conv  Cpe. So sure. I know ! Pull that re-wooded body off that frame , and scrap the Cad. Sell that distributor to Tom ! And the rest of it to Matt and Wayne. Yippie ! Yay - HOO ! Another 350/350 ! WOW ! How COOL ! Lemmee hear it ! You know how Rick restored one of these. I think he should have put a big block modified CAD mill in it. At least it would have been a Cadillac/Cadillac. Still preserve some of its soul. Oh , I like my hot rods. I do indeed. You have seen the pics of Sonny's Studillac I have recently posted. But you have probably not seen my old , original runners. They are not as beat up as I am , despite their age. And they run better than I do. But they would run better yet if they were given a thorough , spot on , all components exactly to spec , MECHANICAL restoration. They are too nice to bugger the patina and history out of them. Give that rare , desireable old Cadillac a break. Thank you , Mr. Fertig.    - Cadillac Carl 

 

And here are my "steam powered tall clocks". And a pic of the 514 in one of Sonny's 'rods : 

 

 

 

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Carl - first off, yes, I respect anyone who fixes and restores this old junk.  But more that fixing is driving them.  I have the utmost respect for someone who is not afraid to hop in and take off with their car and some tools in the back.  And that is for the restored/maintained cars, but also for the guys who do Hot Rod Magazines Drag Week.  Are they now pro Mods with headlights?  Yes.  But to put that many real street miles on them with no support rig is impressive.

 

I lead a busy life.  We are farmers and building salvagers.  I am constantly fixing things that brake.  My old cars are supposed to be a departure from that.  I want to turn the key and drive down the road.

 

This car - if we build it - is almost definitely getting a big block.  It will also not be your "run-of-the-mill" been there and done that '32 Ford roadster.

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Wayne here chiming in also. I restore cars. I still have my first ever car, a 1954 Olds Rocket 88 all original. My next vehicle is a 1946 Chevy pickup that I did the 350/350 twenty five years ago as my tow truck for antique speedboats. The next car is a 1930 Lasalle sedan that took me 19 years to restore to the point where I took first in class at the 2014, Lake George Grand National meet where I drove it 185 miles to the show. I also have a 1931 Lasalle ccp that I’m resto- rodding with a S10 drive train that is in year 9 of the rodding/restoration with a few more years to go. And last September I purchased an original nice running 1948 Jag MK V.

 I support my addiction by making and selling parts for these old Cadillacs and Lasalles. 

 I hate the prospect of a decent survivor being chopped up but if any of this car can be preserved in any way, I feel that’s better then it being scrapped like the thousands were in the 1940’s. 

 My feeling is that I like old cars in many forms...original, restored or created into someone’s vision. If a car is altered, then I try to purchase what is left behind to have saved for another person that is trying to get his “new project” back to original. If people like Pete Sanders, Dick Shappy and me weren’t collecting and saving these parts, most all of us wouldn’t be able to restore and maintain these wonderful old cars.

 That’s my 2 cents!

 I am always interested and wanting to purchase any parts I can for these old cars so that future restorers have a source of parts.

 

Wayne Elsworth

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You know, the hot rod viewpoint versus the purist viewpoint reminds me of the discussion of the correct oil to use in any car.

 

They both get tiresome at some point.

 

There will always be people who want an old car, but not really, they want a new car that LOOKS like an old car.  Their opinion is that it's no fun actually dealing with any foibles a real old car might have.

 

And then there are those who think those foibles and idiosyncrasies are the very point of owning an old car.

 

It's also just like the divide of viewpoints on the way the US is being governed, you can beat your gums blue with valid points either way, and never change anyone's mind.

 

I'm really sick of both of those discussions, and at this point I think I need to take my finger out of the dike and go home.

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Actually, Trim - I do not want an old car that drives like a new car.  What I am looking to do for this project is build a hot rod.  My old '31 Chevy was that.  It was built in the 1980 and had a 350 and a 4 speed.  It was in primer when I got it and rode on a set of the old style Torque Thrusts.  It was loud.  It vibrated.  It would spin the tires when you got on it.  It was a little rough around the edges.  BUT - it was a blast to drive and brought a smile to my face.

 

I really don't care how someone else builds or restores their cars.  I only care about having fun in this hobby.  There are less and less guys who are doing restored cars.  It that's your thing, fine.  I have a couple original cars also.

 

I do think it's funny how possessive of someone else's junk some people get.  So maybe deep down inside I might get a little satisfaction when I think that I was chastised for wanting to do a Chevy, but now we are doing a Cadillac instead.

 

And a little more background.  I also do salvage and restoration of 18th and 19th century buildings.  Do I want to knock down really nice buildings that have been here for 200 years?  Not all of them.  Some are beyond saving.  And some could be moved into tomorrow.  BUT - it is up to the property owner to decide.  I can only give estimates for the costs or fixing/maintaining/restoring versus removing the building.  But when we take a building down, a lot of the material gets to live on in another building.  Heck - the  flooring that is in my bedroom has been in three buildings in it's life.  I took it out of an 1840's log house and based on some details about it, it was in an 18th century building before that.

 

I really think we will build it so that it can be put back to original at some point.  To all of you who expressed interest in parts, Let me get with my guy and see what kind of build we envision and then I will know what will happen with the parts we do not use.  They may just go and sit on a rack for as long as I own the car.  Just really not sure yet since this is going to take a much different approach then I was planning for a roadster.

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Dear fellow CLC member Cap'n Wayne , 

          Perhaps you remember our all too seldom phone conversations. You may remember my anecdotal reminiscences regarding "Truant" ? You know : that time machine I told you about ? That time machine which took the fortunate who got to take a trip on her back into that thousands of years duration period , that age of muscle , wit and wind ? Remember I told you about that extremely heavy "antique" (from our now 70 years later perspective - but she was no Spring chicken way back then either) , 50' yawl built for H.P. Morton of Morton Salt out of Chicago ? My dad occasionally crewed on and helped maintain her , (he was a tough , very experienced seaman and boatbuilder) , and  took eager , thrilled , very young me along to enjoy both activities back in the mid to late '40s. I remember him driving her close hauled , with a double reef tucked in her main' , lee rail under , in Lake Michigan heavy weather. We went out in it. Few did. Most yachtsmen scurried for the safety of the clubhouse if caught out in what we sought out. Man ! I can still even remember the smell of her sail locker ! The feel of her motion ! The roar of the little storm jib as he luffed her up into the even more powerful gusts against the weather helm...........................

 

............. (Or then again , did she have a weirdo lee helm ? Actually I really don't know. You expert sailors will. Truant was the only yawl I have ever sailed ; it has been awhile. I was way too underpowered at that early stage of life to play helmsman ! - very grateful I can still handle the helm of my rugged , reliable ancient machinery. Turn key cars. I just get in and drive down the road. Lone wolf , no "support rig" , remote back roads , some dirt , out of cell and "triple A" range , and a small handful of basic tools. And this is in spite of the fact that these are ORIGINAL (!!!!) , and UNRESTORED (!!!!!) , almost 100 year old (!!!!) , never deeply opened up cars !!!! However , I am armed with the confidence born of familiarity with these well engineered , well evolved G.M. vehicles , and the knowledge to do the routine preparation of my particular old Cadillacs. All the skills  , the state of mind , the million plus miles in incredibly varied conditIons , similar to sailing essentials , play into the rewarding experience of  mastering the operation of these very real time machines. 350/350 ? 350/4 speed ? 454/400 ? 472 ? 500 ? 514 ? 570 ? Please , PLEASE : anyone considering violating a true , legitimate High Period "Full Classic"* , PLEASE DON'T DEPRIVE YOURSELF ! P.ease go out and find a body , be patient , find a body. Just a body. A body you can reinforce with steel , and do your thing. Save your true , legitimate High Period "Full Classic"* for the time your are mature and sophisticated enough to understand and apreciate it. Rackin' and stackin' the goodies against the future when it might be put right will most likely result in a DNF. Blowing out and scattering a complete bagged and tagged car is ridiculous. ESPECIALLY a car of the caliber and condition of the subject legitimate High Classic Cadillac Convertible Coupe) .......................

 

.....................The creaks and groans of her mighty timbers. The wind in the rigging , that rigging secured by the single piece (!!!!!!!) chainplates , which went all the way around her keel !!!!!! I speculate she might even have been tough enough to be able to survive a dismasting after a pitch poling tumble off the freaky steep wind driven fresh-water wavefronts (Edmond Fitzgerald and others tragically misunderestimated") , built up due to the long fetch of the great inland "seas" whose waters she cleaved with her traditional spritted bow. Glad I never had to find out ! There were not many of these relics around even in the '40s. Don't know what ever happened to Truant. But I also remember the fun it was to encounter another truely great "Full Classic"* (if I may be permitted an automotive analogy - the * is supposed to be an "R" in a circle as per CCCA  differentiation necessities) , "Tar Baby" , a 65' sloop. She gleamed a fastidiously well maintained black hulled masterpiece. We would see her while out on Truant every now and again , crews and passengers waving mutual respect to one another. Tar Baby also sailed out of Chicago Yacht Club. I heard a rumor while there a few years ago , that she went on the rocks up in Northern Michigan. Could it have been due to loss of institutional knowledge of how to master , crew and coordinate the sailing of such a powerful handful , running back stays and all ? I just don't know. At any rate , another one of the few previous survivors , now irrevocably and tragically lost forever. I dunno' : maybe some yay-hoo felled the mainmast and mizzen mast off of Truant and chopped them up into gate posts. Sails ? Your guess is probably better than mine. Rigging ? Shee-yit. But that hull ? Man ! Perhaps someone put bow planes on it , snipped the keel off it , and powered it up with two rows of three each of them there 2 cycle supercharged 6-71s ! Twin - SCREW ! Yay - HOO ! And you can hear that incredible scream of 36 two cycle cylinders coming towards you before she even breaks the horizon with an onshore breeze at her stinky smoky stern. Ship-a-flippin'-hoy ! 

 

           Listen up , Cap'n Wayne (sorry the Hurricanes busted up your fine and formidable "big cat" and put you on the beach this Winter) , Matt , Joe , David , and you too , David. I am AACA. I am HCCA. I am CCCA. I am CLC. I am also an old man , and among the last of a certain old school dying breed. I like saving things worth saving. Even animals. PEOPLE too. I have done SO under duress and danger , sometimes above and beyond , even a couple of times at risk of my own life. I just feel that if the situation presents itself in front of me , that I have been CALLED. Now of course I know THIS  does not arise to THAT level. Sure I do. And I have been playing around with cars and hot rods for about as long as any of you guys. And I love them all. But as a proud member of the above organizations , I feel called. But not for your sake , Cap'n. You neither , Matt. Nor you Joe. Not for David C. , but rather for YOU , David F. As a lifetime member of CLC , I do feel CALLED. I am bucking for a ring of the little bell by my Boss. I want to earn my wings by saving another one.

   

 

              David F. :  You wouldn't put a quartz movement in a Tall Clock now , would you ? Even if it meant it would keep better time ? You wouldn't have to wind it ................ And hey ! You would never have to clean and lube it .................. Never have to diddle the escapement................. How about spinin' that there mere and simple two stage , double acting steam engine with a great big 3 phase motor ? You could watch it for hours without building or monitoring a head of steam................ No opening up that firebox ................. No fire to bank.............. Just give a switch a flip and let 'er rip !   YAY HEY HEY HEY HEY HOOOOOOOOOOOO ! Look at that connecting rod go ! Check out that valve action ! I know you know what I mean. 

 

              Right now , at this late hour , I am weary. Wayne , please give me a call again. And I would LOVE to get a call from you too , David F. And any and ALL you guys. Any of you gals , too. Particularly the single ones over 70. My current phone number , in the way I have seen such contacts presented here (I don't know why - I am very unsophisticated in such matters , but monkey see ................) is 408-six two one-8261.

 

               I will leave you all with a few pictures. The significance of which will be revealed when I "take up the pen" again. By the way : does anyone here know this 1930 SS 38/250 ? 

 

                                   Nighty night , all. Or top O' the morning as the case may be.     - Cadillac Carl 

 

 

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Edited by C Carl
Forgot to post pics , and some clean up (see edit history)
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I don't know that car, but had the pleasure of drooling over, uh, admiring, a similar car at Luray Caverns day before yesterday.  They won't let me steal the picture but here's a link.

 

It's a great collection, frozen in time, as no cars are added or moved and it's been like that for a long time.  It's not far off I-81 at Luray, Virginia.  Entrance to the transportation exhibit is free with a ticket to the caverns, but they don't seem to mind if you just walk into the museum with no ticket. 

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60964-d108286-Reviews-The_Car_and_Carriage_Caravan_Museum-Luray_Virginia.html#photos;aggregationId=101&albumid=101&filter=7&ff=296796919 

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Trimacar, I last visited the Luray Museum in 1968. As a Morgan Plus 4 owner, I was thrilled to see the blue Morgan three wheeler. I am glad it is still there. At that time, there was only about a dozen cars in the museum. I'm glad to see it has grown. Thanks for the post.

P

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Richelieu - I just bought this car and got it back here.  If it was a Chevy, I would already know what I am doing with it.  However, it is a larger, higher caliber car.

 

So...  I am in the process of figuring out the direction I want to go with it.

 

I posted to see if there was any interest in the rolling chassis with driveline.

 

I can do a couple things with this car (1) Restore it.  (2) Hot rod it and sell all the parts we are not going to use.  (3) Hot rod it and keep all the parts, and build it so it can go back to original in the future.  (4) Find a Chevy and sell this car as is.

 

I have a couple cars in front of this one, so nothing is going to happen overnight.  The post was more to see if there was interest and possibly what I can recoup from the parts.  That is all part of me figuring out the direction I am going to take.

 

 

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A couple random thoughts:

 

Is there anyone with a similar Cadillac or a '28-32 Chevy roadster that is in the Pennsylvania or Maryland area that would be willing to give me a ride in their original car once the winter breaks?  Or that is coming to Hershey with their car in the Fall?

 

If I were to restore this car - not for a points car, but as a driver.  Like I said, all the wood is new.  Do a decent leather interior (some is already done).  A decent paint job.  And the chrome is pretty good.  What is the opinion of value?  I saw a driver that looks like it just sold for somewhere in the $55-65K.

 

What is the opinion of value on this car as it is?  The motor looks done.  Original top included for pattern.  All sheetmetal looks really good except for a small crease/brake on the rear fender bead.

 

What is a realistic chance of finding a '32 Chevy roadster?  The ones I have seen, seem expensive for what they are or are too nice for me.

 

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So to clear up any confusion:

 

I was looking for a Chevrolet roadster in less then pristine condition.  I intended to put a newer engine, trans, and rear in it.  And drive the snot out of it.

 

I found this Cadillac with such a great body that I could not pass it up.  It has been said many times that the '32 Chevy is the baby '31 Caddy.

 

I have a couple other vehicles in the works before I get to any roadster/convertible.  So I have time to (1) Continue to look for a Chevy  (2) Decide what to do with this Caddy.

 

I am not sure the direction I want to take with this car.  I will not be building it like I had planned for a Chevy.  It is a different car.

 

What I wanted to know was (1) is there any interest in a complete rolling chassis and drivetrain and maybe an approximation of value of this.  

 

And after some comments and thinking about this car (2) What is the value range of this car with a decent (non points car) restoration.  Since I may consider doing that and selling it.  (3) What would be the value range of the car as is?  In case I find a Chevy.  (4) Since I am open minded at this time - if anyone has a similar car as this or a Chevy roadster and is in the PA or MD area and would be willing take me for a ride in their car, I may indeed see the finer aspects of restoring this car as opposed to other ideas.

 

As of right now, and if I do not find a Chevy, the current plan is for a big block - probably a Cadillac.  And to take the body off and set it on a new frame.  And build in in a way that it could be put back to original if desired.  However - I would consider selling all the parts not used if (1) they have a decent value to offset my project (2) if the car restored is not worth the value of keeping the parts.

 

I hope that is clear.  I really don't care if someone has a Chevy, but won't sell it because of what I am going to do with it.  I really don't care if you do not like my plans.  Like I said, I am open at this point, but as the year goes on and shop space opens up, I will be ready to build something.  You can tell me to go to the HAMB and I do look there.  But I am pretty sure there are more people on this site who could use parts off this car if I go that route.

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I posted a 32 Pontiac Roadster listed on a somewhat local craigslist.  Cheap enough buy in.  Looks to be in pretty good shape.  Maybe better suited for modifying than this nice old Caddy.

Looks like they have a lot of the parts if you looks at the rest of the photos.  I'm sure the 5G asking price is a lot less than you have in the Caddy. 

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6542170260.html

 

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  • 4 months later...

How are we all doing as this Summer is fixin' to turn Fall ? I treated myself to a shortcut in putting the '24 back on the road. Rather than pulling the gas tank to do the inevitable, I just did a pressure flush with gasoline. Fair amount of scale. Lubricated the valves, primed the oil pump, topped off the radiator, dosed the primer cups, it fired immediately. Great fun enjoying and sharing with people who are amazed that it has never been restored.  I might never have driven it again if not now. My bone on bone left shoulder is being very cooperative. I sure wish I ran as well as my old Cadillacs. David F., what is the current status of YOUR old Cadillac  -  Cadillac Carl 

 

 

 

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Edited by C Carl
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1 hour ago, C Carl said:

How are we all doing as this Summer is fixin' to turn Fall ?  David F., what is the current status of YOUR old Cadillac  -  Cadillac Carl 

 

The status is that there is no update.  I got my Fleetline on the road in the beginning of summer.  Just did the mechanicals on my beater '50 Chevy.  And am getting ready to work on my boy's Model A in an effort to have it ready for his 16th birthday next year.

 

The guy I have building my cars works on what he wants when he wants.  I am lucky to have found him as he treats my cars like his own cars and his work is top notch.

 

As of right now, the Caddy is tucked in a garage and waiting it's turn.  I am still looking for a '32 Chevy roadster to build and will hopefully find one.  Once I do, then I will probably make a decision on this car.  As of now, the plan is still to make a hotrod out of it.  I know that is not what most of you want to hear, but...  I want build a roadster.  I know how I'd do a Chevy.  But I am not sure on the details of this car.  I sit in it.  Look at it.  Do a bunch of looking on line and at shows.  It's a big car.  But it has great lines.  It does not have the fender mount spares.  It has suicide doors.  I have no wood work and no rust repair.  And most of the chrome has been done.  That's a lot going for the start of a build.

 

If anyone is serious about this car, and is coming in to Hershey this fall, I could possibly schedule a showing.  I am less then an hour away from there.  The car is not for sale at this time, but could be if I find a Chevrolet.  Or I would be more then willing to work out a trade but only for a 1932 Chevy.

1 hour ago, C Carl said:

 

 

 

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From the current CCCA bulletin. These things do have value. With very good reason. I sure hope you can find an acceptable body to put on a frame of your choice, done as you like it. PLEASE SOMEONE  :  PLEASE FIND THIS GENTLEMAN THE BODY HE  NEEDS SO THIS BODY CAN SAY WHERE IT BELONGS.    -   CC 

 

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C Carl - yes, that is the car that I now own.  It was bought by this guy's dad in 1948 as his first car when he got out of the service.  The inspection sticker on it is 1956.  He said his dad was on a decades long restoration of this car, but that other cars seemed to come, get rebuilt and go, but this one never got finished.  This was the last car that they had to settle the estate.

 

I bought it because it's the "daddy" of the 1932 Chevy.  And because it was so clean.  And not a 6-wheel.  And not a V-12 or V-16.  I like the roadsters better, but I like the suicide doors on these coupes.

 

I could have bought an Experimetal Chevy body, but that's not quite my idea.  I want something like the blue Chevy above.  Or I'd even consider just a body.

 

Thanks for your kind words C Carl.  Most of us hot rodders are not bad people.  We'll usually work with the restoration guys and are willing to work with less then prime examples.  I am still young by "car guy" standards, but my views have changed over the years.  I used to look down on the late model guys and the tuners or rice burner crowd,  But then you realize that they are still at least "into cars" and are doing something other then making payments on a Prius.  I'm not going to build a Toyota.  They are not going to restore a pre-war car.  And most of the people in the AACA are not going to drop a Fleetline on the ground or build a pro-street Nova.  But we are all "car guys."

 

 

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Yeah, no, don't get me wrong. I realized VERY early on that for ME cars should also be toys. Not just some utilitarian appliance. So I've been playing with toy cars for almost 60 of my 74 years. And I love hot rods, where the sky is the limit to the builders skill, creativity, artistry, and engineering capabilities. Years ago a red '33 Ford roadster with 4 cam Maserati V8 power train stopped the show for me. 2 years ago at Burbank (Jay was a no show that year), it was a MG TC highly modified by a wizard of a mechanical engineer. A little Daimler SP 250 V8 through a 5 speed box to beefed everything. I could not get enough of it, and waited to hear it go through the gears on take off. And hearing that beloved V8 exhaust note out of a buffed up, muscular TC (red also), was a treat I hope I never forget. There isn't a stocker in the world of either one of these, restored, HPOF, or whatever, that would capture even one percent of the time I spent marveling at these superb, totally unique masterpieces. Plenty of TCs and 33s hither and thither. And I absolutely MUST live long enough to see what X' does with that XK120 he will build into one of the all time greatest hot rods of the world. But now I'm hungry. It is 7:30 here, and I'm going to strap on the good ol' fodder bag.     SOMEBODY PLEASE FIND OUR FRIEND DAVID HIS ROADSTER BOD' !   -   CC 

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