RichBad

Wing and body fitting to chassis - 1927

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Hi All,

 

I’m after some advice or pictures to help understand how all the body and wing parts attach to the chassis on a 1927 four Tourer.  I’m just about to send the chassis off for painting and decided to check the front wings and they don’t fit great (I think they were adjusted to suit the old bent chassis but don’t fit a nice straight one).  A few questions (that a couple of photos would probably answer easily).

 

Its an Australian model but I believe the chassis mounting points and front wings were the same/similar.

 

1. Is there felt/rubber between the chassis and the side skirts/apron (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term) and also between the side skirts and body?

 

2.  Is there felt/rubber between the front wings and the chassis (or is it just for the body).

 

3. Should the side skirts/ aprons have holes or just cut outs to clear the body to chassis bolts and also chassis rivet heads?

 

4. Does the bolt at the front of the wing (for attaching to top of chassis) have a captive nut in the chassis or just a loose nut?

 

5. What is the hole at the rear top side of the front wing for (by hood bottom edge)? The next one forward lines up with a hole in the chassis as do the ones in front of that (for the hood latch)?

 

Perhaps my wings or aprons aren’t correct so I’ve attached a couple of photos below.

 

cheers!

809E4ACF-47C4-41DF-859C-AE8A63EA6133.thumb.jpeg.9f6fdcd1e436718c2ff46d8afd3783c1.jpeg

B9843DF5-9EB9-4E84-A109-21831DD878C4.thumb.jpeg.d60f1b91a3470d345df7307e7db20ce7.jpeg

B9B67ABE-0189-46D1-B2CE-BC44F15455E0.thumb.jpeg.15002d1a7dd0fcc99a476ea35930de8a.jpeg

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There is usually a thin anti-squeak material made of impregnated woven cloth between the body and frame.  My 32 DB has a different mounting system,  but my 29 Plymouth was set up like your car.  It had the material between the fenders and the frame.  The running board splash pans had the cutouts so they could be removed without taking the body bolts out.  On my car, the rearmost hole in the fender lines up with the front body bolt and lines up the fender with the body.  I can't remember if there was padding between the splash pan and the frame on the Plymouth, but there was between the body and the top of the splash pan.

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To answer your specific questions:

1. and 2. The correct material to use between the chassis and the body is uncured rubber.  This material , prescribed for such usage, is available from Spectrum Rubber in Sydney or from Peter Jackson (Old Era Services).  The rubber goes on top of the chassis as far as the front of the scuttle - not under the front guards.

 

3. The valances (side skirts) sit on top of the rubber and should have clearance notches for the body bolts and chassis rivets.  They do not have bolt holes as such but are secured by a combination of the body being bolted on from the top and the running boards holding down their lower edge.

 

4. The bolts  holding the lower parts of the front guards at the clash strip and dumb iron ends are of a special type - 9/16" thick head with a taper under which fits into a countersunk washer.  The nut is an oversize square which bears against the side of the chassis for tightening purposes.  I had to make these as the old ones tend to rust and break.  Send me a PM if you can't find any and I can turn some up for you.

 

5. I'm not sure about that hole.  The later guards are different to mine in that they appear to have integral clash strips. 

 

Tony

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Thanks Tony.  Do you have any pictures of the front bolt?  For the nut that makes sense and I should be able to make something myself but thanks for the offer!

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Rich will have a look at the gards hanging in shop and see if i can through any light on the holes , cant rember of hand , may be getting to old  ha ha ha .

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Thanks Bob, I didn’t think I’d find something you couldn’t remember:).  Looking at various photos on the web the holes seem to be the same as others but not many photos showing anything in the holes.  I found one picture which shows something in the rear hole - not sure if it is a fastener or a rubber plug?  Also seems to be a seperate small section of clash strip at the rear - perhaps it secures this?

DFE511C7-4E65-46B6-A93A-D13D3AE57B02.jpeg.b984b061df3d8f6a59f4e48993d49846.jpeg

 

The middle hole hole definitely appears to be for attaching to the chassis as it lines up with a hole in the chassis but the rear hole is outside the chassis.  Photo below shows this when the apron is removed.

 

EAD206BE-A390-46E2-8058-817E1E3FA4FA.thumb.jpeg.972d7d4a93e812cec497b3702a9ecece.jpeg

 

Also not sure if the front of my splash aprons are correct as they have been repaired at some stage (no holes/cutout for front body mount).  And should the front have part of the hood clash strip?

06A60E00-0BAF-4A17-9449-A8AAB9492915.thumb.jpeg.df422e82d124703f7a27bd1a9f36a9fe.jpeg

 

Tony, is this what the bolt for the front dumb iron looks like (or is that just a vintage bodge)?

BC81C70A-4268-4E4F-9533-8939EAB4C364.thumb.jpeg.8ac6071ebe760201f2c608de0d6b0fa1.jpeg

 

Thanks!!

 

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Yes, that's the bolt (a particularly daggy example).  The head is 9/16" AF and the thread is 5/16" UNC.  The bolt fits into a cup washer which is 1"  in diameter, 1/4" thick and has rounded edges.  The original nut is 3/4" square but can be made larger to engage flush with the inside of the dumb irons where it is inaccessible after the front valance is put in place  (held down by the front guards).  See attached photo.482.thumb.JPG.2dc510401172644851c4412906dc4a3e.JPG

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Gradually making progress - had to cut some chunks of previous repair out of one fender to get it to fit better.  Still trying to find out what the front of the valance/splash shields should look like where they meet the front fender. I think that their must be a seperate piece of clash strip between the fender and valance but can’t find a good picture.  I think it’s the same as the 1928 standard six if anyone has some photos of those?

 

Do they have piping/welt between where the fender and valance attach to each other?

 

78B9EB74-63C7-4288-96C3-64F14F6124AD.thumb.jpeg.5ee8f6e36f3f331f2478935ebdb123a4.jpeg

 

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Hi,

Should there be fender welt/piping between the fender and the valance and if so is it on both the horizontal and vertical joints?

 

Also, does it go between the fender and the front of the side step?

 

Thanks!

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The short answer is no.  But you might like to consider painting the joint faces with cavity wax (non hardening) before assembly to avoid squeaks and rust.  See your automotive paint dealer for the wax.  

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Trying to figure out how the right hand wing/fender fits around the engine timing case.  I had to cut out a piece of the hood clash strip because it was hard against the case.  Anyone have a photo showing what it should look like here?

24275D3B-2025-4905-A64B-F88AF03C0A88.thumb.jpeg.7ed71dad32365242897f17d336d02264.jpeg

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If  your valances have access holes in them ensure they align centrally with the rear spring eye bolt when the body is tightened down.  When the body was fitted to my car insufficient thought was given to alignment so the bolts can not be removed. This is mostly a problem with torque tube cars because the axle has to be pulled back to disconnect the prop shaft when changing the gearbox.  If you have an open prop you won't have do this but it is still a consideration if the springs need to come off. 

 

Ray.

P9040058.JPG

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Please pardon me, boys, if I am hijacking the thread, but would the earlier cars be the same, or significantly different with respect to the repairs covered herein?  The reason I ask is that I am doing almost the same kind of work to my '22 touring car.

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I think mine is from late 1927 but perhaps earlier for the standard six.  The earlier fours were similar but had different shaped fenders and chassis but I’m no expert (not even close) :)

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Thanks Ray, mine seems to line up pretty well with the bolts at the rear.

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Does the body mount straight to the chassis/valance or is there a spacer/rubber between them?  Mine is a Tourer with wooden frame and there is a small ridge along the lower edge of the body where it joins the wood frame (where the nails secure it to the wood frame).  With this ridge it means that the main wood frame has a small gap where it bolts to the chassis.

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On 4/15/2018 at 10:04 PM, RichBad said:

Trying to figure out how the right hand wing/fender fits around the engine timing case.  I had to cut out a piece of the hood clash strip because it was hard against the case.  Anyone have a photo showing what it should look like here?

24275D3B-2025-4905-A64B-F88AF03C0A88.thumb.jpeg.7ed71dad32365242897f17d336d02264.jpeg

Worked it out with some help from Bob.  It looks like the late 4s and 6 had the same front fenders except for the clash strip on the front right fender.  In the 4 it is cut short for about 6” at the front.  My front guard was either of a 6 or someone had done a wrong repair (there were quite a few weld repairs in that area).

Also confirmed there are two sheet metal clash strip extensions that fit at the rear of the fender up to the bulkhead.

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Glad you got that one sorted Rich  One often wonders what canabilizing has been done to our old cars in their "Previous Life"

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