ron hausmann Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 All, Thought that I would post up a few pictures of a unique, one-of-a-kind Kissel that has just been re-discovered. This car was purchased by an individual in 1971 and, after being used in a few parades, was parked and stored. If you are a student of Kissel history, this car is loaded. This car is an ORIGINAL Kissel Model 6-45 Gibraltar Seven-Passenger Touring. When Kissel changed its name from "Kissel Kar" to "Kissel" and changed its chassis and engines from Model 6-38's to Model 6-45's in late 1918/early 1919, they had a lot of left-over large bodies from their unsuccessful 1917 and 1918 Double Six models remaining. So they made a few special cars (as pictured last) which utilized the new Kissel Custom Built Model 6-45 engines and long frames, but mounted the huge 1917 / 1918 Kissel double Six bodies upon them. No such Kissel cars were thought to have survived, at least until this car recently surfaced. This car is believed to be the earliest Kissel Model 6-45 known to exist ( Car number 45-1003 = third car in series). This car has the body, wheels, windshield, radiator, interior, and trim of a large 1918 Kissel Double Six, but has the longer engine, chassis and dash of a 1919 Model 6-45 Kissel. Except for the top, this car appears to be an unmolested original car. I inspected it. To me, it doesn't look like it was driven much. This car has some unique fittings, such as embossed Kissel stepping plates and "Kissel" tail light. It hasn't been run for approximately 40 years, but still turns over and holds oil without leaks. I believe that a Kissel mechanic could get it running in a weekend. I'm posting a factory picture of another such 1919 Kissel Model 6-38/6-45 car, as well as a few pictures of the car re-discovered. More to follow. Enjoy. Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Ron are you the caretaker of this car .I have some magazines that detail a few of your cars.The one I cant find yet,is the one you bought in the Columbus area.You will love it,i believe it was 1971.When I find them all.i will send them to you.He had several cars,2 kissels,We went for both of them ended up with the Packard.Still drive it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Nice well taken care of car, no clutter in that garage after 40 years storage, very odd. Worked on a 1913 Kissel Kar years ago. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36 D2 Coupe Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Interesting early Ontario historic vehicle licence plate in the first picture. Does it still live in Ontario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 There is a young gentleman in Maine with an early Kissel project car......is it the same as this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 6 hours ago, 36 D2 Coupe said: Interesting early Ontario historic vehicle licence plate in the first picture. Does it still live in Ontario? Jim - The car is now owned by a US resident. The car's ownership has bounced back and forth. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 5 hours ago, edinmass said: There is a young gentleman in Maine with an early Kissel project car......is it the same as this one? Ed in Mass - No, I think the car that you are referring to is a 1917 Kissel Four-passenger Roadster that the young man (whom I know) recently purchased. It's a Model 6-38 that he's begun to restore. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Ron H, Very interesting car to be sure! Thank you for sharing this. Do you know what the story is about those side curtains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40phil41 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 11 hours ago, 36 D2 Coupe said: Interesting early Ontario historic vehicle licence plate in the first picture. Does it still live in Ontario? Very interesting. My 1941 Canadian Dodge still has it's HVC-320 licence plates (plated by me in 1973 in Hamilton Ontario). Very close in number to this one. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 5 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: Ron H, Very interesting car to be sure! Thank you for sharing this. Do you know what the story is about those side curtains? Wayne - The top, upholstery, and side curtains were reportedly replaced in the late 1970's/early 1980's. They are done correctly from the few examples that still survive. Because this car was structured, as ALL Kissel Gibraltar Models, for a removeable wooden top, perhaps not many cars had the need for side curtains. To see the only surviving example of a Kissel with a removeable wood top, please check out my 1918 Kissel postings under "Restoration" forum. I had to carve half of the removeable oak hardtop myself and got carpel tunnel as a result. Thanks, Ron Hausmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 Example of removeable Kissel Wooden hardtop. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40phil41 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 See my post above re my 1973 HVC 320 plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 Joe, All - The Wisconsin Automotive Museum, in Hartford Wisconsin, has the largest collection of Kissels that exists. I have the next largest collection. And there is also a "Kissel Kar Klub" for Kissel enthusiasts. Between those two groups and their members, the ownership and whereabouts of most Kissel cars, trucks, bodies, and chassis is tracked. We don't claim to know where all those wonderful Kissel cars are, but we try. On occasion a new barn find or engine or whatever pops up. Our listing is available only to Kissel Owners, not the public. Because very many Kissels are one-of-a-kind or two-of-a-kind, this listing really helps when you are seeking rare parts, or need to go to see how to replicate them. We also have an extensive library of every known Kissel publication and a newsletter which is archived with decades of Kissel-related articles. There are about 150 or so complete Kissel cars, trucks, and funeral vehicles, dating from 1908 to 1930. There are Kissel cars in Sweden, Mexico, Australia, Brazil, and Massachusetts to California Dozens of these 150 cars are "one-of-a-kind" models and years. About 37 of these 150 Kissels are the coveted "Kissel Gold Bug Speedster" models from 1920 to 1928. Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40phil41 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Joe in Canada said: Bought this one in 1983 / 84 sold in 07. Only reason I kept the plate I guess I was too lazy to take the tour plate off. Will have to dig out my 72 if you want to see the difference Sorry not to hijack this thread but a nice restoration on a rare car indeed. Never noticed a removable top other than a California top. With this car you have the best of both worlds. Great for the colder tours in the fall and topless in the summer. You called it a wood top so I take it is not covered in sheet metal. You really have to be thankful for Ron's dedication and involvement to the Kassel construction and keeping track of them all. Are you writing your documentation all down Ron seeing you even new more about the car in Oshawa than I did? Here you go. Note year on my plate - 73 Edited March 14, 2018 by 40phil41 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Is side seating the proper term for the runningboard seat? For some reason seeing one on the curb side looks odd, I've seen them on the oncoming traffic side, must be a great ride for a kid just getting into automobiles. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 The side seats on the first Kissel Gold Bugs from 1919 - 1923 were advertised as “outrigger seats”. There are two, one on each side. These were rapidly christened “suicide seats” or “mother in law seats” by the public. Actually these are very sturdy. Note the foot brace on the front step plate which works well for a side seat rider. ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) In the newly discovered car I notice the passenger side door opens to the rear compartment. In the blue touring is that one long door on the passenger side as I can not see a door seam in the centre? As for the suicide seat I will take a rumble seat ride over it anytime. Edited March 14, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Good pair of goggles and I'm ready to ride! bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) eArtist Peter Helck with his son driving and grandson guarding the picnic basket, at the Local meet here in Ridgefield, Ct. some time before 1965. It was common for him to drive Old 16 down Rt22 in New York state to the meet, an easy hour long trip. Great Days, sure was a pleasure to see so many truly great cars just a mile from home. Bob Edited March 14, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Joe in Canada said: In the newly discovered car I notice the passenger side door opens to the rear compartment. In the blue touring is that one long door on the passenger side as I can not see a door seam in the centre? As for the suicide seat I will take a rumble seat ride over it anytime. Joe, the 1919 Kissel 7-Passenger touring has three doors, one on passenger side rear, and two on driver.s side. the. 1921 Kissel Sport Tourster pictured in the scene with my Kissel Gold Bug., only has two very long doors,. And those doors open opposite of one another (one towards front, be towards rear) and are different lengths. Weird, but they seem able to do their task well. The stresses on the doors and hinges with that massive length and oak-weight always makes me wary of opening and closing them. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) Here are two pictures of a very nice Golden Bug I took in 2013 at Hershey. Very interesting cars being so different I had to go back and look at it again the reason for the two pictures. Edited March 14, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 Joe, This is a 1923 Kissel Model 6-45 Gold Bug Speedster the same as mine, with the exception of the top. When that car top was replaced, the then-owner didn't like the correct portholes, so he had the new top made without them. That is actually documented on a TV series. All Kissel Gold Bug Model 6-45 Speedsters from 1919 to 1923 are supposed to have portholes. The Model 6-55 Gold Bugs, which have golf club holders instead of suicide seats, didn't have portholes. Sorry to bore you all with these details, but incorrect restoration sometimes becomes taken as factual over time. I'm kinda a purist. Ron Hausmann 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) Ron, Please post as much Kissel info and photos as you can, these were the dream cars when I first joined the hobby in 1960. Hope those port holes were saved on the botched top. Bob Edited March 15, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40phil41 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Joe in Canada said: The 73 you talk about is not meant to be the year you got the plates. All plates that style had a 73 stamped on them including the ones I have bought in the 80s . That is also the first year you got a sticker like yours on the right side to indicate a year. Fact - I bought 'my' plates in 1973 and they are still on the car with 'current' sticker and 'current' sticker location. The only point that I was making in my original post is that the plate on the Kissel has a number very close in sequence to mine and thus the plate must have been originally purchased very close in time to mine. Not meaning to deflect this thread to discuss the history of Ontario's historic plates. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 Dear 137hd45, The restoration was very very well done. Just the portholes were purposefully not installed. I'm sure some future owner will correct that. Thanks, RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 hours ago, ron hausmann said: Sorry to bore you all with these details, but incorrect restoration sometimes becomes taken as factual over time. I'm kinda a purist. Ron Hausmann I am with 1937hd45 we are not board I may get side tract on occasion and it will not happen again. As mentioned earlier that hoping he kept the port holes. I think if the car was mine I would have them put back in making it more distinct. If you ever need pictures or details about the Golden Bug in Oshawa send me a message I can help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Definitely, more details and lots more photos of Kissel automobiles (both Kissel Kar and the newer stuff!) would be appreciated here! I would like to see a couple good pictures of every known surviving Kissel myself. (Let us see, 150, times two or three divided into how many web pages, ---- equals?) Seriously, Kissel is one marque I never tire of looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 short history on Kissel 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thank you Joe in Canada! That short video was very enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 15 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: Thank you Joe in Canada! That short video was very enjoyable. Yes, Very nice history lesson, and it made up for the license plate info. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) Yeah, we all love Kissels, for sure. But how many of you were hauled from the church to the reception in a Kissel when you were married? LOL. I may never own one, but rode in this one often, and drove it occasionally. That's one little "edge" I have on some other folks. (Chuckle ) Ron H owns this car now, if I recall correctly. Edited March 17, 2018 by lump (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 We had quite a few Kissel parts left over from restoring a Gold Bug and a 1927 Brougham. We sold most of the parts to Joe Leaf from the Northwest. Does anyone know if Joe is still with us? He had quite an accumulation of Kissel parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Joe is still with us “ Kissel-ing” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, ron hausmann said: Joe is still with us “ Kissel-ing” No I have been outside in below freezing weather putting new brakes my enclosed trailer freezing my butt. The 12 T I bought from the original family on Vancouver Island is being delivered 1st of April. Has not been driven since 1949 and I am hoping to have it on the road asap so trying to get ahead. Edited March 17, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Joe in Canada - I was referring to a different "Joe", Joe Leaf who is the Kissel Owner that restorer32 mentioned in his answer above. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 So Ron, this must have been your car at the 2008 Willistead Classic Car Show? It was the first time I had seen one and was fascinated with the side jump seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 The Gold Bug we restored ended up with a well known dealer/velocity channel regular in Connecticut who removed the distinctive porthole windows in the top and repainted the fenders black (ours were originally yellow) because he said the changes would help the car sell quicker. Fun cars to drive once you are in them. Ours had one door only on the passenger side. Extremely difficult to get into the driver's seat with the top up, even with the "fat man" steering wheel. The owner of ours shipped it to France where it completed a 600 mile reliability tour before being shipped back here and sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 dei - Yes that was my car at the Willistead Classic in Windsor Canada. We won First Place. That's me in your picture with a few more pounds then. My Kissels live at the M1 Car Condominium in Pontiac Michigan next to the state's only urban high-speed racetrack! This is a picture of some of their home. RON 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Great shot, looks like width not height was a small problem in the lift setup. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Bob, I bought over-height special lifts. 76" high. RON 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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