alsfarms

Larger starter-generator needed

Recommended Posts

I am looking for a larger starter generator, Northeast or Delco to use to mount to an antique engine for starting and generating to keep up a battery.  Does anyone here have one laying around that you don't need?

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Jan,  I thought all single unit starter/generators by Dodge Bros. were 12 volt.  Am I wrong in my thinking?

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:18 PM, alsfarms said:

Who knows, what makes used the single unit "starter/generator"  ?

Al

 

My '15 Buick uses one by Delco.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your response to my inquiry on starter/generators.  What size is your Buick?  Is the starter/generator the same as what is found on the 20's Dodge Bros. cars?  Do you happen to have a spare or know of a Buick guy that may have a spare starter/generator?

Thanks,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Dodge SG unit is 12 volt.  The Buick unit is 6 volt.  They are completely different animals.  The Dodge unit is round and is driven from the front of the engine.  The Buick unit is a square box that is driven off the water pump drive on the rear of the engine, with a 1 way clutch to engage the starter.  What are you trying to drive? 

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Hugh,  I had the assumption that the Delco unit was also a 12 volt system.  That bit of information is a deal killer for me.  I was hoping that a Buick unit would have more starting torque but I do need 12 volts so I guess I will be working with the Dodge Bros. Starter/Generator.  Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the brass guys use a Cub Cadet modern unit. It's a combo unit, solid state, very small, and can easily be hidden. The run a small 12 volt gel battery to operate the system. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought that the Northeast Dodge S/G 12 volt would be a good add on starter for an early car, although it is quite heavy.

 

A good friend of mine was, shall we say, forced, by the person he worked for at the time, to put a starter on an IHC AutoBuggy.  He installed a NE S/G 12V (I'm really getting into all these abbreviations), and at times, the starter function wouldn't turn over the engine.  A piston would apparently get under partial compression and keep the starter from spinning.  And, this installation was by a guy who knows what he's doing.

 

My point is, you need to match the unit to the purpose, just as the engineers did when they designed it.  Sometimes you just can't slap it in because you think it might work.

 

A Cub Cadet unit with a belt drive is a good idea, as you don't have to cut any flywheels and such, the modification is reversible for the purist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Ed,  I am sure the modern Delco system would work in some smaller CID applications, however, it does not have enough twist to handle much more than what it did originally.  It was used to start a 2 cylinder Onan or similar engine not a 200 to 300 CID engine.  I suppose if a gear reduction was used, that would help a lot which would slow down the starting RPM but would speed up the charging side, both could work.  I will chew on my own idea of gear reduction.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.  (I am back considering the use of a Dodge Bros. Starter/generator as it was designed for a 200 plus CID engine).

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Dave,  The Dodge starter/Generator has the ability to twist a Dodge engine of just more than 200 CID.  The little Delco unit from a garden tractor has less twist.  Any time we re-engineer at home, we try to match as best we can.  I was told of another home installer of the Dodge unit on a larger engine.  It was not used to fully start the car but as an assist for an aging owner who still wanted to crank start his car.  His installation allow for a pull switch under the radiator which would engage the starter while he twisted the crank.  He was able to keep enjoying his car for many more years with his starter assist installation.  The IHC had a big two cylinder engine so it would be a handful to twist over if the unit had to overcome compression right at the start.  Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that's exactly what happened, if the starter came on while there was (long stroke) compression, it would bog down.

 

I'd be willing to bet the Dodge unit would spin my '10 Hupmobile quite easily, as I think a fly landing on the crank handle would move it.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as an FYI, Franklin used 12v Dyneto starter/generators from the late teens thru the early 20s. They are large and heavy, but turned their 6 cylinder engines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last time I saw the cub cadet set up it was placed on a Apperson Jackrabbit of 1913........and it started it fine. The early motors have little compression, I’m quite sure they have been installed many, many times. The units are very small, and rather inexpensive, even if they only last five years each, the cost of replacment would be negligible. The cadet motors are desiel, ask the guys on the HCCA site, I bet they have a bunch of insight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My friend has a few from V8 Cadillacs. His car is a 1920 but some of the spares may be earlier.  Just message me if this is something that may work for you and I'll put you in touch with him.   Good luck! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know if this will fit your needs or not but FYI 1915 thru 1918 Maxwell's use a Simms-Huff starter generator. Flywheel side has a gear which could be replaced with a pulley and the other end is a coupling for belt drive from fan. 1915 thru 1917 start on 12v and charge 6v while the 1918 version is 12v/12v.

 

Howard Dennis

1917 Maxwell 35.jpg

100_4255A.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Howard,  What is the CID of the Maxwell engines that would be starter by this Starter/generator?  It looks like it could be driven from either end, which is a plus.  Have you run a Maxwell before?  How lazy is this starter/generator when it is trying to start the car?  I may be interested.

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Howard,  What is the CID of the Maxwell engines that would be starter by this Starter/generator?  It looks like it could be driven from either end, which is a plus.  Have you run a Maxwell before?  How lazy is this starter/generator when it is trying to start the car?  I may be interested.

Al

Don't hold me to it but if I remember correctly it's 186 cubic inches. I'll check later when I'm done doing my chores. My Maxwell came to me 10 years ago as a basket case with a motor completely rebuilt in the 1960's and it was probably set up by an old time mechanic who was used to "burning in" babbet bearings and it worried me as it was so tight I was sure I'd have to tow it to get it running. I had ALL I could do to rotate it with the crank but when the day came to first start it she spun over with no trouble at all.

 

Howard Dennis

Edited by hddennis (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Howard,  Is this unit a 12v-12v system?

Al

1915-17 starts on 12v and charges the two 6v batteries separately

1918 changed to a  single 12v battery and starts and charges 12 volts

 

Howard Dennis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...