1952 MG TD

[Luv2Wrench]

On 5/13/2021 at 6:09 AM, Mike Macartney said:

Jeff, really impressed with your paintwork. Very well done. Mike

PS: Just a bit of good news on me. I spent last week in hospital and after a year of trying to get oxygen they have eventually prescribed it. I have an oxygen concentrator for breathing in the house and small oxygen bottles so I can venture out. I feel I may even be able to do a bit in the workshop again when I get my strength back.

 

Excellent, really glad to hear that!!

[Luv2Wrench]

I'm making progress, just a bit slow.  I got the windshield assembled and I've managed to get the wiper motor running again.  Working on the horns next.  Taking a break from wet sanding for a bit after an ill advised 1 hour tubing session behind a speedboat.  My shoulders are very disappointed in me and are still being vocal about it.   I'll be the first to admit that the tubing was a BLAST and probably worth the pain. I'll probably do it again as well.

 

 

[Luv2Wrench]

Still crawling along. So much work around the house to be done, I feel lucky to get much at all done this time of year.  I must say though, the weather has been outstanding!  One of the coolest summers I can remember.  I hate it that the heat is so terrible out west, wish we could all have good weather!  

I have now wet sanded and buffed all the body panels.  There are 4 rejects that will need some touch-up and re-clear.   I'm pretty happy with that.   Next step will be to shoot those and try to wet sand and buff without any issues.  After that I'll get the tub back out in the sunlight and decide if I want to re-clear the tub.  I was happy with it when I did it but I feel like I can do a better job now and will probably go ahead and do so.

 

Passenger's door.

 

 

Driver's side top hood panel.

 

 

[JV Puleo]

I have my doubts that any MG looked that good when new.

[keiser31]

AWESOME WORK!!

[Laughing Coyote]

Very nice work.  All that prep and hard work paid off.  It will be ready for Pebble when it's done. 

[Luv2Wrench]

25 minutes ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Very nice work.  All that prep and hard work paid off.  It will be ready for Pebble when it's done. 

 

Thanks!  As per Pebble... let's just say the camera hides a lot.    I'm certainly proud of it and I've exceeded my expectations.  There is some evil ironic twist in that the better you get, the more you see that could be better.  I look forward to getting this car finished and getting to work on the Metz.  I'm curious to see how the paint goes on that car given the horrid state of the panels that came with the car.  I've done a good job with good panels on the MG... hoping I can do the same job or better with the "scrap" panels that came with the Metz.

[hursst]

Amazing work.  I hope I can get just somewhat close to that level of work on mine.  Congrats, you're almost there.

[Luv2Wrench]

31 minutes ago, hursst said:

Amazing work.  I hope I can get just somewhat close to that level of work on mine.  Congrats, you're almost there.

You can do just as well or better, it just takes time.  My advice is to do a couple of panels that either will not be seen or that are small and you can redo them later.  I'm going to be re-clearing the tub because while I loved it when I first did it, I now can do much better.  The real trick to a great finish is to do everything perfectly... lol, joke..  the wet sanding and buffing can take a near failure and make it look great.  It only works as long as you don't sand through the clear.  Sand through the clear and you have to sand back, shoot color and then clear again.   My tips to keeps that from happening

1) 6 coats of clear

2) Tape off edges so that you can't sand through in those areas.

3) Same thing for corners, beads, etc.

4) While still in the bodywork/filler process, spray a guide coat and "wet sand" that.  You'll quickly find a few area that you sand through because it is a small bump.  Keep working that step until you can spray a guide coat and knock that down without sanding through it.

5) Vary the grit you start with to match the texture/issues you have in the clear.  The normal instructions are to start with 1000 or 1500 but if you've got texture or other issues it'll take you forever and you'll have to bare down and that further increases risk of sand through.  It seems counterintuitive but going over it lightly with 800 on a block frequently dipping in water will get you down to flat quickly.  Then 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000 is quick and easy after that.  I heard you can stop at 1500 or 2000 and use the wool pad and cutting compound but I found that if you looked carefully you could still see scratches.  Some people even go past 3000 and I don't think that would be wasted time because you can do it quickly.  I will certainly explore this on next paint job.

6) For curved surfaces you need to find a stiff but flexible pad that will conform to the curves in the car yet hold that curve.  Imagine you're planing off the high spots like using a hand plane.   If you just have the paper, the push spots with be your fingers and that will wear little grooves into the surface.

7) Shoot a scrap panel and do this multiple times until you get the hang of it.  You can rescue just about paint job as long as you can get a reasonable base laid down.

8 ) Use a base coat that you can sand before clear.  Not all bases do this.  But if you use a base that you can sand, then you can rescue anything. 

9) I mentioned this before, but get the panels flat and smooth.  It makes the wet sanding SO SO SO much easier.  That's the one thing I would have changed.  I did a good job on the panels but getting them perfect before base/clear is the way to do it.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[chistech]

My friend and excellent painter Moses says exactly the same thing about prepping the surface before paint. He’s a super fussy guy, the kind of guy we all want to paint our cars (unfortunately he’s too busy to do restoration painting). I learned a lot from him and if the need ever arises, I’m actually thinking of attacking the body and paintwork myself though he told me he’d always find time to paint the cars for me, I just have to do all the prep work including priming and wet sanding. I think I can live with that if there is a next car down the road.

[hursst]

Jeff, thanks for the tips, I will definitely use them.  Still sanding, filling, priming.  So far so good.  Can't wait to see your next posting.

[Luv2Wrench]

Got the tub in the booth, scuffed it, fixed a couple of nicks and re-cleared it.  I also had to fix/re-clear the gas tank, end cap, strap and running board.  That all went well and with any luck that'll be the last paint I need to do on the car.  The wheels still need to be painted and there's misc black primer on some bumper pieces but that should be all the green paint and clear.  I'll need to wet sand and buff but I'l probably wait a few days on that.  Very excited to, hopefully, start assembling the car for the final time.

 

 

 

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Looks great!!  Your clear flows out nice.  

[Luv2Wrench]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Looks great!!  Your clear flows out nice.  

Thanks!  The clear lays down and flows out inversely proportional to my amount of care.  If I have no cares at all and plan on wet sanding until my arm falls out... then it does a great job.  If I try to get something that only requires minor wet sanding and a buff... well, disaster awaits.  In all seriousness, I've given up on trying to get the clear right.  My goal now is to get a lot of it on and do a "not terrible" job.  I'm going to be wet sanding it regardless of how good it turns out anyway... and once you get it cut dead flat with the sand paper the next grits up goes really quick.  Obviously my car is smaller than the trunk lid of your car so I can afford to do that.   I'm thinking my next car needs to be even smaller and have no chrome.

 

[JV Puleo]

Ah...the Metz. Smaller, much simpler and certainly no chrome. But, if you want to be fussy about "restoration", you should brush paint & varnish it. It's probably easier than spraying the paint although the only place I've seen the proper coach paint is in the UK. I'm seriously thinking of doing that myself since, realistically, I'll never have a place where I can spray it. High end boats are often painted that way so perhaps that is worth looking into.

[keiser31]

BEAUTIFUL!

[Dave39MD]

That is really nice work. I have been preparing and painting my 31 Chevy and can appreciate the hard work involved in such a great result. 

 

Dave

[Tom53MGTD]

Your paint is looking great!  I can only hope that mine is half as good.  I have a question as to how you handled the end caps for the fuel tank.  I see that you masked the edges.  Was the flat surface on your end caps chromed?  Mine have been re-chromed and I am wondering how to prepare for paint.  Any tips?  Looking forward to seeing your project as it gets closer to completion.

[John S.]

Luv2Wrench, boy, you do great work. Beautiful paint job.  John

[Luv2Wrench]

20 hours ago, Tom53MGTD said:

Your paint is looking great!  I can only hope that mine is half as good.  I have a question as to how you handled the end caps for the fuel tank.  I see that you masked the edges.  Was the flat surface on your end caps chromed?  Mine have been re-chromed and I am wondering how to prepare for paint.  Any tips?  Looking forward to seeing your project as it gets closer to completion.

 

The end caps didn't turn out that great.  They look fantastic from 3' or more away.  If you get close you can see where I masked the chrome off and painted.  There is a definitive edge as I shot a primer, 2 coats of base and 4 coats of clear.  The original way they did this was to shoot the whole thing (single stage) and then wipe the paint off the chrome edge.   Since I was shooting base/clear I didn't think I could do this.  If I were doing it again I would figure a way to take my base and make it single stage and shoot it and wipe it off.   It isn't bad enough that I'd do it again, but it is one of those details that a concourse car would have correct.

 

My end caps were re-chromed as well.  I masked off the edges and then scuffed it up with 400 grit paper.  What grit you use depends on what your base will hide so you might consult with your paint provider to be sure.

[Tom53MGTD]

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know if you could scuff the chrome enough to get the paint to adhere.  I will consult with my paint supplier and may use a single stage for the end caps.  Enjoy seeing your progress pictures.

[Luv2Wrench]

Got the gas tank finished today.  Since there is a spare tire covering most of it I didn't do much if any bodywork on the tank.   The paint on it is a bit rougher as well but I thought I would post some pictures to show the wet sanding to buffing stages.

 

Starting point, fairly heavy orange peel present.  You can tell this by the lack of detail in the reflections (tree branches, leaves, etc)

 

 

First very light pass with 1000 grit so that you can see just how many issues there are.

 

 

Now it is pretty flat and I've stepped up to 1500 grit.

 

 

Final pass with 3000 and ready for cut pass with buffer.

 

 

Cut complete using wool pad and Meguiar's M105 cutting compound. 

 

 

After buffing with M205 and a soft foam pad.

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Very nice! 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Yes, this forum needs a "wow" emogee!  That is going to be a fantastic MG!

[hursst]

Jeff,

   Great photos that show the process/progress.  For those two concave strength lines (or are they convex?), do you just not touch them at all because you can either sane thru them or not really get to them?  It looks like they were untouched in the photos.  Maybe you just hit them with compound towards the end?  What the process with areas like those (or something like fender edges) where you could easily sand/polish thru the paint, or not be able to sand it at all?

 

Chris

[chistech]

Man I love that green! (And I mean the green paint, not green money!🤣)

[Luv2Wrench]

18 hours ago, hursst said:

Jeff,

   Great photos that show the process/progress.  For those two concave strength lines (or are they convex?), do you just not touch them at all because you can either sane thru them or not really get to them?  It looks like they were untouched in the photos.  Maybe you just hit them with compound towards the end?  What the process with areas like those (or something like fender edges) where you could easily sand/polish thru the paint, or not be able to sand it at all?

 

Chris

 

Good eye Chris, I didn't touch the two concave areas or the edges of the tank as both areas are covered.  The concave areas (bead rolled at factory to keep the tank skin from flexing) are covered by the big straps that hold the tank onto the back of the car.  The edges are covered by chrome end caps.  Had those areas not been covered I would have done two things differently.  First, I would have prepped those areas to an extreme before I painted... like get them absolutely perfect..  Second, while I would have wet sanded those areas as normal, I would have cut/buffed by hand.  Note that all the wet sanding I'm doing is by hand and you pretty quickly learn to feel and hear the surface finish that you're working on.  You should always be using very minimal pressure as the goal is to let the grit on the paper to cut down the imperfections and it doesn't do that well if you're pushing down.  The biggest thing I learned wet sanding is to start with (if needed) 800 grit and just get the "tops" of the imperfections cut off.  Then with 1000 grit you get it almost flat.  The pass with 1500 takes everything down further and get the surface dead flat, you'll do no more leveling at this point.  The passes with 2000 and 3000 are light and fast.  

 

Also.. more direct to your point, I put masking tape over areas that I feared sanding through and just didn't touch them at all.  I tried doing an edge or two in the beginning and sanded through them almost instantly.   Any sharp edge is going to be a huge challenge.  I changed how I did filler and how I shot paint on the edges to account for that.   If you haven't painted before,  and I can't stress this enough, you should do one panel all the way through to the finish to get a feel for the challenges.  It will change the way you do body work, filler, block sanding, prep, painting, etc.  Also understand you're going to get a lot better by the time you finish the car... and want to do parts from the beginning over.  That's not a problem, I re-cleared the tub and a couple of other panels.

[Luv2Wrench]

I've been making good progress getting ready to install the interior and top.  Before I actually kick that off I needed to cut/buff the tub.   While that has gone just fine, I did the cut/buff inside rather than outside because it was hot outside... like really hot.  I had read to do the wet sand and cut/buff outside because of the "great light".  Well... that might be true for those with poor lighting in their shop, but it appears that I should've been doing this inside.  I definitely did not get all the scratches out of some of the panels as once I brought them into the shop I could see some issues.  It isn't a problem but it does mean more time as I'll need to re-sand and cut/buff some areas.  

 

 

[pmhowe]

9 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

it appears that I should've been doing this inside.

That has been my experience. I find fluorescent or LED lighting to be far more harsh in identifying defects than what I can pick up in bright sunlight. 

I'm thoroughly impressed with your work. Seeing what you have achieved has allowed/forced me to raise my standards. Thanks for sharing your work.

Phil

[Luv2Wrench]

1 hour ago, pmhowe said:

That has been my experience. I find fluorescent or LED lighting to be far more harsh in identifying defects than what I can pick up in bright sunlight. 

I'm thoroughly impressed with your work. Seeing what you have achieved has allowed/forced me to raise my standards. Thanks for sharing your work.

Phil

Thanks!   It has been a learning process but a lot of fun.

 

I'm now working inside with LED lighting above and a 7000 lumen LED work light 3' from the car.   This makes it so much easier.  Making sure I sand in one direction and then rotate 90 degrees with the next grit is key. With this better lighting I can easily if I haven't gotten the previous grit's scratch marks covered.   I finished the rest of the tub and will start on the interior tomorrow!

[hursst]

Jeff,

   Looks amazing.  Great tips, I will be following all of your advice as I work my way to paint (like doing one panel all the way to the end first).  Great tip about sanding one way, then switching 90 degrees for the next grit; I don't know if that would have entered my mind.

 

   You may end up with the nicest TD on the planet at this rate.  Clear space on the shelf for awards.

 

-Chris

[Luv2Wrench]

Got the windshield installed!  I had a LOT of issues with the windshield.  I probably put that thing together and took it apart a dozen times.   That "fun" continued right down to the end because after finally getting it installed it wouldn't fold down.  It took awhile to realize that the side supports the interface between the mounts on the car and the side of the windshield were swapped.  As such, back off the car it came, swapped the sides and then, finally, back on the car.

 

 

One of the details I'm really proud of is the etching I added.  Thanks to an MG enthusiast I was able to buy a vinyl masking and etch the "Triplex Plate" etching that was on the glass when original.  It even has the correct date code on it.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[nickelroadster]

You are turning out a very nice job.  Dogged determination is getting you where you want to go and you seem to have a natural talent for figuring out the things that you make small mistakes on.  I am sure that the amount of time you are spending on this paint job is way more than most people would spend but you have the patience to do things until you get it right .  Unfortunately if you drive it it won't stay perfect bu that is just life.  What did you do with the Metz?

[Luv2Wrench]

13 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

You are turning out a very nice job.  Dogged determination is getting you where you want to go and you seem to have a natural talent for figuring out the things that you make small mistakes on.  I am sure that the amount of time you are spending on this paint job is way more than most people would spend but you have the patience to do things until you get it right .  Unfortunately if you drive it it won't stay perfect bu that is just life.  What did you do with the Metz?

 

Thanks! 

 

The Metz is packed up and waiting its day in the sun.  I stalled out on the Metz as I lacked skills, money and tools.  The MG is a unique project as my brother is funding the parts and we will be selling it once complete.  During the 3 years I've been working on the MG I've managed to acquire most of the tools I need for the Metz.  The main thing I lacked when working on the Metz was metal working tools.  I now have a metal lathe, shaper, planer, milling machine and a fair amount of general machinist tools. The lathe is restored but the others will need a pretty fair amount of work.  Once the MG is done I will start on restoring the machine tools and setting up my machine shop.  The Metz will be the next project after that.  I've added painting, welding and general machine work to my skill set so I think I'll be better able to handle the Metz this time.  The money situation is also a lot better so that will certainly help.

 

Each time I drive on I-75 around White I remember your place, those great roadsters and how you took my spare Metz parts to Hershey and brought back the seat and other critical parts.  I'll always be thankful for you making that trip.  Thanks again!

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[nickelroadster]

I appreciate the thank you but the truth is I get almost as much satisfaction from helping other people out with their cars as I do working on and driving my own.  I would like to see you doing some driving too.

[Luv2Wrench]

I've gotten more hours of work in this week and weekend than probably the entire time I've had the car... and yet the finish line seems to move further away.  I think I'm at the part of the restoration where everything thing I do uncovers 2 more things that need to be done, 3 more things I don't have, 4 things I need to order and a half dozen more questions.

 

I managed to get the wheel arch covered in vinyl and test fit the rear panel.  I wasn't very happy with the fit (gap towards the front) and debated about what I could do about it as I tried to get some sleep.  I awoke the next more to find that it had solved my dilemma... as it had "uninstalled itself".  I guess it needed a little more adhesive.  I have some ideas for removing the gap and will refit later.  

 

 

While test fitting the rear panel I realized that I had to hang the doors first.  Of course the doors needed to be wet sanded and buffed again... and a dozen other issues surfaced.  I eventually got one door hung... and it even closes.  While test fitting the door handles I realized the chrome guy ground down part of the inside of the handle so the fit is very loose.  I have some ideas to fix it but I'll probably order a replacement set and see how they look.   I did a lot of organizing to try and verify what I have and what I need.  I've spent hours and hours going over pictures of unrestored MG TDs trying to make sure I'm getting mine back together the way it was done originally.   I think I easily have over 100 hours in research to make sure I get the car back the way it was built.  I think starting with a car that is taken apart and missing a lot of stuff is just very difficult though at times I've enjoyed the challenge.   I'll be happy when it is over.

 

[Luv2Wrench]

Finally had a week and weekend that I was able to get some work done.   The passenger's door needed a bit of a lift and to get that the factory support bar needed to become shorter.  The common solution for that is to replace the bar with a turnbuckle.  There's a couple different ways to do that, cables, all thread, solid bar, etc.  I felt like the best solution for me was to cut a section out of the original support bar and weld a small turnbuckle in place. It worked great and both doors are now installed.  Getting more comfortable with the torch has definitely helped.  I wouldn't say I'm very good yet but I'm thinking of it as a tool for a solution rather than avoiding it. 

 

 

 

 

Next up is covering a few pieces with vinyl for the rear half of the interior.  I covered the wheel arches and I'm pretty pissed with how it turned out.  I spent hours and hours getting the fit just right and it look absolutely fantastic when I got finished.  Unfortunately when I came out the next morning a few wrinkles appeared.  The 3M 77 adhesive spray is garbage now after the formula change.   It may be more environmentally friendly but it doesn't do its job anymore.  I've switched to contact cement going forward.  As much as I hate the wrinkles I'm not willing to risk trying to pull the covers off and redo them so I'll have to live with it.  The truth is the seat back covers that area so you want see it but I'll always know it is there.

 

This is the door to the side curtain box.  The car actually came with this piece and only this piece... but if you only had one piece... this is the one you'd want.  It was super helpful to have it.  It even has the original "Made in England" hinges.  I plated them and they look great. 

 

 

It gets vinyl on the front and then felt on the back. 

 

 

The inside of the box is also felt and was pretty challenging to measure, cut and install.

 

 

Here is a shot with the rear quarter panels stuck in place as well as the side curtain box "top" sitting loosely in place.  The top will also be covered with vinyl.  I changed the original top a bit by splitting it length wise and installing a piano hinge.  That way in addition to the door opening, you can raise the top to make it easier to get the side curtains out.

 

 

I've also run into another roadblock.  The interior kit comes with 3 lengths of piping.  2 long ones and 1 short one.  Mine came with 1 long one and 2 shorts ones...    Unfortunately I ordered this 3.5 years ago and just now noticed it.  I'm hoping Moss will be able to help me out.  They don't sell the piping separately... so I'd need to buy another $600 interior panel kit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Laughing Coyote]

Coming together.  It's going to be nice.

[Bloo]

5 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

The 3M 77 adhesive spray is garbage now after the formula change.   It may be more environmentally friendly but it doesn't do its job anymore.

 

Spoiler: It never did. I remember these problems (and others) with super 77 when working in an auto trim shop in 1984. Rattle cans are not the way. I have been using some generic stuff from JOANN lately that works better than 77 ever did, but you can still color me skeptical. What works is landau top cement in a spray gun, or contact cement.

 

The car is looking outstanding. Keep up the good work!

 

 

[Luv2Wrench]

In keeping with the failure theme for spray adhesives... I ended up having to pull the arch covers off again.   I had switched to using contact cement for the other pieces I was working on so I did the same for putting the arch covers back on.  They went on smoothly without a hitch.  I should've just done that to start with. 

 

 

I talked to Moss about the piping issue.  They acknowledged that the kit was incorrect and that I had the wrong piping but the "warranty" had expired on the kit.   They would be happy to sell my 3 yards of it for just under $50 delivered.  It is clear that their customer service is just as crappy as the parts they sell and then take forever to get delivered.  The piping is special order and will take "around 4 weeks" because of COVID.  What COVID has to do with piping that is on a 300' roll in a warehouse somewhere is beyond me.  As such there's nothing else I can do on the interior until it gets here.  There are 2 British sports cars for sale near me that I'd love to have, but there's no way in heck that I'd ever buy a British sports car because I'd be relying on Moss Motors for parts.  Sorry for the rant, I feel better now.  

 

I did manage to get all the other pieces that required gluing completed.  I'm very happy with how it all turned out and/or I'm delusional from breathing contact cement fumes for 8 hours.    There are some other small tasks I can get done while I'm waiting so I'll be working on those next.  Welding up the bumper supports is one task that I'll probably do tomorrow. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)