midman

Rebuiding a 1931 90 Series Engine

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Did they put any shims under your main bearings?  What did you use for your rear main seal?   Thank you.   Hugh

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Hugh,

You can see the inserts in post #6. The rods and caps only have a couple of thousands clearance against the crank as you can see in post #8. I really didn’t discuss how he machined them other than I told him to go ahead with the inserts.

Chuck

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Spinney,

I had one of the rod bearings off but neglected to get the number before I installed them. I'll try to get them from the machinist and I'll post it here if he comes through.

 

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:27 PM, Hubert_25-25 said:

Did they put any shims under your main bearings?  What did you use for your rear main seal?   Thank you.   Hugh

Hugh,

No shims on the mains. I used 5/16 rope seal on the rear main.

Chuck

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On 4/21/2018 at 6:59 AM, midman said:

lock but I’m not sure that will do it. Any thoughts

can you take a difrent shot of this bolt ? more side view ? can you safety wire it ? --kyle   

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Well , I was just about finished buttoning up the engine when I found two pieces I missed. Rule number 1 make sure you have everything cataloged .

Anyway one piece was a threaded plug for the rear of the cam (add 4 hours or work re-tearing down the bottom end, bell housing flywheel, etc.)

The other part is this small plug which I can not find where it goes. The machinist removed it but he does not remember where it came from. It is just .48 in diameter so I am assuming it is in the oil galley lines but I cannot find an obvious location. 

I am not going to button this up without finding its home.

Any ideas out there.

7602A226-1E3C-4D89-874F-DFCA205671F3.jpeg

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The only things applying thrust to the cam are the oil pump gear and the crankshaft drive gear.  I believe both of these gears force the cam to the rears to maintain contact with the cam thrust plate.  There should little in the way of forces that will work on the retaining bolt.  

 

The factory was not concerned with the bolt coming loose or they would have pinned it or wire locked it.  

 

Bob Engle

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The brass plug that you is looking for a home,  could it be part of the oil temp regulator system.  there are springs that may have been retained by that plug.  Just guessing on my part as I only know the 50 series engines.

 

Bob Engle

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Seems I had the answer to the wayward plug on my computer all along. No one knew where the plug went so I was stumped. I had gone over that block 50 times looking for where the plug might go.  Then I remembered when I bought the car I also got a pile of blueprints, so I figured I better start searching. I had donated the plans to the Buick Heritage Alliance and they gave me scanned copies. I went through every engine print I had, blown way up and started searching, inch by inch,  and there it was.

It was on the rear main bearing, I had been scouring the block. So after installing it I started reassembling again and  I'm almost back to where I was 2 weeks ago. So glad I didn't have to tear it down any further.

 

Plug.JPG

Missing Plug.jpg

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OK, Got a bunch of work done.

Reinstalled the bellhousing, flywheel, oil manifold, front cover and oil pan.

Installed the pilot bearing and clutch and the cylinder head. New head bolts, not high crown bolts like the old ones but this engine has been apart a couple of times at least so I was not comfortable reusing them.

Rebuilt the rocker assembly and started installing the pushrods.

Unfortunately I found a pushrod with some damage I missed on disassembly. I am not comfortable installing it so I am trying to track one down. hopefully one of my sources will have one. The pushrod spring cap was a little mangled so my guess is it was cocked on installation sometime in the past allowing it to rub against the rod.

Oh well, the install is stalled again during the hunt.

Cylinder Head 1.jpg

Cylinder Head 2.jpg

Pushrod.jpg

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Midman:

 I spoke with Patrick Reeve today. He said that ROSS will be shipping my pistons by the end of this week. So they will be probably be getting them back in my engine by the time we get back from the Buick nationals. 
I mentioned your push rod issue and Patrick indicated that they have a source for just about any push rod.

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What about you, Larry ? Did you have Ross bring your compression up a bit ?   -  Carl 

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C Carl:

I have not had any contact with them. The Reeve's gave them the piston and the oversize to match up to. Correct compression height offset pin bore etc. But now much lighter in aluminum. I let it up to the shop so I would not micromanage their expertise. (Usually slows down the process). I just wanted the correct application for the engine. Still, it did not matter as it has taken more than 5 months to get the pistons. The engine has been out since last September. My Master developed a knock right after we pulled the Standard engine. I have refused to investigate until I have the Standard driving again.

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You guys sure have had a series of unanticipated setbacks. Sometimes it just feels like system overload. Great patience you two display. But then again, in this hobby, there is no alternative. You know that tremendous feeling of satisfaction when you finally fire them up and take to the road. I have done so after too, too long ;  tears of joy streaming down my face!  Courage !   -  Carl 

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Well, after what seems like forever I think I'm ready to swing the motor back into the car next weekend. Installed the clutch which I did nothing to, as it looked brand new with good discs, springs and levers. Installed new throw out bearing. I shimmed up the closest bearing I could find and a new pilot bearing. 

Rockers all gone over and with the replacement pushrod (thanks Roger!) and pushrod spring cap (I fabricated one from 24 gauge steel) the head is pretty much done. Upon closer inspection of the old spring cap, I see that parts of it had broken away which very well could have been what killed my mains and rod bearings that were damaged.

I can't find my cylinder head to rocker oil line. I am going to have to make one up I guess. I bagged and tagged everything I thought but it is not there. Anyway I can swing the block in without it.

Transmission mounted. I just have to finish up all the bolts. 

I had removed the engine with the steering column in, big mistake. It should be much easier now since I removed it for resealing the steering gear.

Hope my engine lift can handle it. I installed the head so I could work on it without killing my back, but it is going to be a lot heavier than when I pulled the engine. Back then I pulled the head separately.

 

Engine ready1.jpg

Engine ready2.jpg

Edited by midman (see edit history)
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Re swinging the engine in, I have a list - somewhere - on file that Buick sent me in the 1970s of all the individual component weights of the early 1930s models. From memory the weight quoted for the 90 - fan to clutch - was 1100 lb. 

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The motor is in!

The lift handled it fine but it was slow going. Without taking the fenders and such off it was tight. Lining up the torque tube too...…..ughh!

It would have gone much easier with 3 people instead of 2..

But, its back in so now the reassembly of all the hang ons begin. 

Ballparked the valve clearance for now, installed the generator and distributor (went over the distributor first and it was packed with old grease in the centrifugal advance. Don't think those weights were moving much), set up the timing, installed the starter. etc.

Gonna finish the passenger side stuff then move on to the drivers side. I'll post as I go.

Engine in 1.jpg

Distributor 1.jpg

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Finally had a chance to start hanging everything back on the engine. It might be ready to fire up next week. Got the manifolds, steering box, fuel pump,  generator, water pump and distributor installed, along with the starter and starter pedal, steering wheel and light switch.

 

I'm having a problem with the filter housing I bought from Bob's way back. I wrote down the filter number (but stupidly tossed the original filter), but the replacement filter I bought does not thread on though it crossed from the Wix number that was in the housing originally. It is definitely 13/16-16 and that is what the new filter is but it does not thread on. I have another 13/16 adapter for a tractor and the filter threads right on that one. Maybe I wrote the original number down wrong. I had #5106. Can anyone verify that? I'll call Bob's tomorrow and see if they'll tell me. The one on the right is the one from Bob's housing.

 

Anyway, other than that things are coming along.

Engine in Drivers almost 2.jpg

Engine in pass almost.jpg

Engine in column almost.jpg

Adapters.jpg

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It’s alive!!!!!!

 

The filter in Bob’s housing is a NAPA 1061, threads right on, the Baldwin replacement is a B6, same thread size, will not screw on. Couldn’t figure out why so I’ll just keep buying 1061 filters.

Anyway, finished timing, cold adjusting the valves, 12 guards of oil, and coolant, preoiled the top end, filled the fuel bowl and carb with gas, cranked it a few times then switched on the ignition. Small shot of starting fluid and boom she started right up!

I was suprised that there was zero smoke out of the exhaust at start up.  Have a small oil leak at that darn filter housing and a couple small exhaust leaks but oil pressure is great, no fuel or coolant leaks.

Thought I had my camera on video for the start up but I still had it on camera.

Anyway, have to fix the few minor things, put the rest of the car back together and start driving it to break it in.

Hallealuah!

 

Chuck

 

DDAEF1C4-976B-4B56-B919-9F6629C19057.jpeg

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I had Ross bump our 31' to around 6.5:1.  They should have my profile in there for a 31'.    I remember them being around 2500 bucks about  8 years ago.   It's a strong car.

 

Our 31' has terrible brakes.  Really good until speeds exceed 45mpgh.  This is a problem since our cars happy speed is 60mph.   I've tried three different linings and it easilly outdrives the brakes.  I blame it on the steel drums.  The shoes just don't bite into the steel.  I've set ours up by the book and also with a brake doktor and they just aren't good.  Somebody please get a set of cast iron drums made and sell me some.  

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On 8/14/2018 at 11:06 AM, Janousek said:

Our 31' has terrible brakes. 

Hmmmm. My 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 has very good brakes with pressed steel drums. Even the Warrant of Fitness tester said it had remarkably good brakes - they are tested in a brake machine.

 

Are you sure you have them adjusted properly?

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7 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Hmmmm. My 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 has very good brakes with pressed steel drums. Even the Warrant of Fitness tester said it had remarkably good brakes - they are tested in a brake machine.

 

Are you sure you have them adjusted properly?

 

Yes.  I have nothing against mechanical brakes.  I set up about 3 cars a years with them and non have skunked me like our car.  They are fine brakes until you get past 45 mph.  Then it has a good pedal and the harder you push the shoes just don't dig in.   The harder you push it never translate into a progressive stop.  They'll stop you but if someone ever pulls out when were cruising were smoked.  I really want to try a set of cast drums but I don't have the time to go through the process.  We live in the country and our driving is mostly back roads so I just tolerate them.  

 

Buick engineered it to have one long shoe for front braking and a short shoe for reverse.   I have a 33' Cadillac in the shop now that needs brake work.  It will be intersting to compare the two when I'm done with it.

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Do you have woven lining on the brake shoes?  My  32-58 will skid the tires.  Of course it has cast drums.  I do hav some 32 50 series brake drums if you ever want to fool around installing them.  I doubt that the coefficient of friction is much different from steel to cast iron.  The biggest difference is less fade with the cast iron.

 

Bob Engle

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Right now I have woven shoes.  I've tried them both and woven work the best.  I have to get some drums made for a model30 packard so it has me thinking about getting a set done on our car also.  At this point it would be nice to experiment.  

 

If I was to do one thing different on our 31' Engine it would be to eliminate the oil temperature regulator.  At least gut it and have it appear correct.  It's a possible failure point of coolant dumping into the engine.  

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