Ginny

1926 Rolls-Royce

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A Springfield car will have an "S" in the chassis number... S111BG was a ghost that belonged to a friend of mine, S193FR was the PI I had. The Springfield cars went from RH to LH drive in about 1926. I am not sure what series it was but these were late SGs with LH drive and 3-speed transmissions. All of the Springfield PIs were LH drive. In as much as I can tell, the car in question is a Derby PI so, if it is a Holbrook body, it is likely is was one of the British-built cars imported while RR of America was operating. There were always a certain number of buyers who,  quite unjustifiably, placed some snob value on having a "genuine RR".

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It could be a Holbrook-Brewster as listed in Coachbuilt.com  That would explain quite a bit........... its worth taking a look at the listing on their site. I had not been aware of the combination...........

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Thank you all for your time and information. I have purchased the build history for Rolls-Royce 12DC from The International Club for Rolls-Royce and Bentley Enthusiasts. This is a file of work/test reports compiled during construction at the factory by the mechanics and engineers. Hopefully, this will clarify matters. 

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Ginny......it could make things more confusing...........its possible the chassis had several bodies on it over the years, a common event on Rolls Royce chassis. Please post some better car photos........dash, engine, body, ect........ I am sure we can nail it down. 

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1 minute ago, edinmass said:

Ginny......it could make things more confusing...........its possible the chassis had several bodies on it over the years, a common event on Rolls Royce chassis. Please post some better car photos........dash, engine, body, ect........ I am sure we can nail it down. 

Ok, I will try and get some taken soon. Thanks.

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More likely it was imported as a chassis and the body added in America. Rolls Royce never made a body until 1946, all their cars were sold as chassis and the body made by body specialists. It would be routine to have an American made body on a Rolls Royce from the twenties or thirties.

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That is a pile of cars.  Rolls is interesting with the Holbrook body,  but a Derby Rolls with an American body may have a limited market.

 

Btw,  since I was a kid,  I loved the prewar Rolls hood line and radiator, especially on the bigger series cars.  Just iconic.

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15 hours ago, alsancle said:

That is a pile of cars.  Rolls is interesting with the Holbrook body,  but a Derby Rolls with an American body may have a limited market.

 

I agree.......neat car with almost no market. Such a shame, but it does allow intrested newbies a very reasonable chance to get into a fantastic platform. The car looks good enough to use and enjoy, as long as there are no engine issues, it would be lots of fun for a first Rolls.

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Is it possible that 1926 Rolls got smaller diameter wheels and tires as part of a modernization in the early thirties? That would be another reason for welding skirting around the fenders, it would look funny if the fenders were too far away from the new tires.

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Yes. That was a very common "update". In fact, early American Ghosts with the original 23" wheels are fairly rare. Much more commonly the cars were "updated" with 21" wheels and balloon tires. But, the outside diameter of the wheel and tire remained about the same.

 

 

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Holbrook body's were built right here in Hudson NY. It's just a few miles from where I live. Dandy Dave!  

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I received the build history for Rolls-Royce 12DC from The International Club for Rolls-Royce and Bentley Enthusiasts. 

 

I have not had a chance to really read through/decipher everything but it was not an American coachbuilder. The car was sent to Paris to The Kellner Coachbuilding Company. 

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On 2/28/2018 at 10:37 AM, edinmass said:

Ginny......it could make things more confusing...........its possible the chassis had several bodies on it over the years, a common event on Rolls Royce chassis. Please post some better car photos........dash, engine, body, ect........ I am sure we can nail it down. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Ginny said:

I received the build history for Rolls-Royce 12DC from The International Club for Rolls-Royce and Bentley Enthusiasts. 

 

I have not had a chance to really read through/decipher everything but it was not an American coachbuilder. The car was sent to Paris to The Kellner Coachbuilding Company. 

 

I wasn't too far off the mark! Looking forward to learning more about the car. Ed

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According to the book on Rolls-Royce Derby Phantoms,  DC 12 was sold in October 1926 and was fitted with a Cabriolet body by Kellner so the Sedanca de Ville body that it now has was obviously fitted at a later date. 

The skirted front fenders didn't start to appear on cars until around 1933 so the change was probably later than that. The deep shirts that this one has would appear to be from around the 1935 - 36 era.

\

Edit to the above.

I may well be wrong in saying that the body has been replaced as although it is described in the book as being a Cabriolet, it may well be a Cabriolet Sedanica because of the soft front roof and I can't find a photo of it in its original form.   I am still sure that the front fenders have been changed or modified from original.  

Edited by DavidAU (see edit history)

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DavidAU, I too wish I could find a picture of the original, but I will keep searching: For now, below is some information from the build history. This may be leading nowhere but it is sure interesting to me. 

 

12DC Series X

Engine:  AD15

Body: "Cabriolet" is written then crossed out and "Enclosed Drive" was written on top of the line

Date of Sale: 15-1-26

Sold to: Paris Office for Messro Kellner for W. Lit

Tyres: Dunlop 33 x 5

Sale Price: £1850

Shipped on SS Lotea on 1-4-26 from London to Boulogne 

Steering: B

Levers: "Body Between" is written then crossed out. "Set in" was written on the top of the line

Under fittings:

-Long Wheel Base £50

-Springs for 650 lbs Body. Passengers 6-4.

-Wheels Dunlop s/s 33 x 5 wide. 

-1 extra spare ditto with dust excluder £ 12

-1RR Mascot & Cap £4

 

 

 

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Having a cross out on a RR build sheet is common, enclosed drive is just a fancy name for a 7 passenger sedan. Its quite possible the car went from a sedan, and then was modified and updated into a town car with skirted fenders. New head lamps, ect. It's possible the Marshal headlamps are original, as that is what would be expected to see on a car delivered to Paris. It's also possible they are a later update as well. I would run an ad in the RR club publication asking about the car. It may also have been serviced at the factory at some point in its life, and at one time you could get the information from them. Detailed photos of the windshield and front doors from inside and out would help determine if the body was a sedan cut down in the era to a town car. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)

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