1965 Cowl Tag Codes

[Matt Harwood]

Hi guys,

 

I had a '65 Riv come in today and it's loaded with options and I can decode most of the options on the cowl tag, but I don't know what 3B and 5G might be. Can anyone help with those? I checked the ROA website which has most of the codes, but nothing for those two.

 

 

Also, what does the star indicate next to PAINT? It's a Bamboo Cream car and I see code YY there, but why the star?

 

Thanks for your help!

[RivNut]

Matt,

 

You either have taken codes from something long ago, or you didn't look in the right place.  Both codes are on the website.  I updated these about a year ago. 

 

3B is the rear defroster,  5G is for rear seat belts.  

 

In the member's only section, click on the 'Articles from the Riview' link, then 3rd from the bottom is the link to '1963 -65 Fisher Body Plate Codes'

 

 

[Matt Harwood]

Great, thanks Ed!

 

Here's the resource I used: https://rivowners.org/features/Ev_Stats/colortrim/options.html

 

Any idea about the star by the paint code?

 

Here's the car, by the way:

 

[Seafoam65]

                         That is a GOOD LOOKING 65 Riviera! The consensus on the forum has been that nobody

knows what the star on the body tag meant. My car's tag has the star also in the same exact spot.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Here's the one I referenced.

 

https://rivowners.org/features/evolution/FisherBodyPlate_63-65.pdf

 

I was hoping that when I created this one, that old one you used, which also includes options for every model, would have been deleted. 

 

Ed

Edited February 21, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Thanks again, Ed! That's a great resource.

[RivNut]

Matt,

 

You should hang onto that Riviera and drive it to the ROA meet here in Overland Park in June.   

 

Ed

[RivNut]

35 minutes ago, Imperial62 said:

Now everyone has me curious about that star   I love decoding cars

About the star, go back and re-read Winston's post #4. ?

[1965rivgs]

Hi Matt,

  Can you post pics of the interior? Does it still have the rear seat belts? Thanks,

  Tom Mooney

[Pat Curran]

1 hour ago, Imperial62 said:

I appreciate the consensus is that nobody knows but that does not mean it does not mean something and I would just like to know (more).  Are you Riviera experts stating that the star is NOT on every 1965 Riviera data plate?  Only some?   If it is on every data plate, then that tells me something, may not be the answer, but it tells me that the Riviera factory management must have wanted an identifier for Riviera designated plates. 

 

If the star is not on every 65 Riviera, then one would look for patterns.  I don't know Rivieras, or if they were made at different plants.  Maybe the star means special order. 

I don't know the answer Bryan but I can tell you that all 3 of mine had the star.  Two were 401's and one dual quad 425 non-GS.

[Seafoam65]

3 hours ago, Imperial62 said:

I appreciate the consensus is that nobody knows but that does not mean it does not mean something and I would just like to know (more).  Are you Riviera experts stating that the star is NOT on every 1965 Riviera data plate?  Only some?   If it is on every data plate, then that tells me something, may not be the answer, but it tells me that the Riviera factory management must have wanted an identifier for Riviera designated plates. 

 

If the star is not on every 65 Riviera, then one would look for patterns.  I don't know Rivieras, or if they were made at different plants.  Maybe the star means special order. 

              Interesting idea..........I do know for a fact that my Riviera was special ordered and it has the star.  

Edited February 22, 2018 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[Loren@65GS.com]

2 hours ago, Imperial62 said:

I appreciate the consensus is that nobody knows but that does not mean it does not mean something and I would just like to know (more).  Are you Riviera experts stating that the star is NOT on every 1965 Riviera data plate?  Only some?   If it is on every data plate, then that tells me something, may not be the answer, but it tells me that the Riviera factory management must have wanted an identifier for Riviera designated plates. 

 

If the star is not on every 65 Riviera, then one would look for patterns.  I don't know Rivieras, or if they were made at different plants.  Maybe the star means special order. 

 

 I have seen the star on '65 Skylark tags.  Doesn't seem to be just for the Riviera.  One of the Skylarks had the bucket seat option , probably means nothing regards to the star. Just an unusual combination.

 

 Loren

[Seafoam65]

Here's a pic of the cowl tag on a 65 Riviera without the star, and also a pic of my cowl tag with the star. Note both

are painted code HH Seafoam Green.  Also, note that the body tag without the star has a build date in between my car which has the star, and the bamboo cream car's body tag which also has the star. Since forum member Gordon Wolfgang worked in GM plants, perhaps he might know what the star symbol meant, or perhaps he knows someone who would know?

Edited February 22, 2018 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, Imperial62 said:

I appreciate the consensus is that nobody knows but that does not mean it does not mean something and I would just like to know (more).

Looks like something you'd enjoy researching.  When you figure it out, please let us know.  It will solve a 30 year old mystery. ?

 

Ed

[Matt Harwood]

7 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

Hi Matt,

  Can you post pics of the interior? Does it still have the rear seat belts? Thanks,

  Tom Mooney

 

Hi Tom,

 

Here are some photos of the rear seat belts. The interior has been reupholstered and I don't think it's 100% correct with the pleated vinyl (it should have cloth inserts), but the seat belts appear original. I have a magazine article featuring this car from 1995 and it shows a different interior, so it has been replaced since then.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

[jframe]

My 65 has rear seat belts as well, but the buckle is chrome steel.

[sean1997]

I don't think the star is related to any specific model, but it only shows up on tags from Flint cars.  Earliest tag I have with a star is 04B 1961 (LeSabre) and latest is 12C 1965 (1966 Electra 225).  I have pictures of about 215 tags with stars on them, more than 99% of them are for cars that don't have special order paint.

Edited October 2, 2018 by sean1997 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

ALL 1st generations were built in Flint (hence the FB number). Some Rivieras have the star, some don't.  

[1965rivgs]

23 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Hi Tom,

 

Here are some photos of the rear seat belts. The interior has been reupholstered and I don't think it's 100% correct with the pleated vinyl (it should have cloth inserts), but the seat belts appear original. I have a magazine article featuring this car from 1995 and it shows a different interior, so it has been replaced since then.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

These are the factory correct buckles for factory installed rear seat belts. This even applies to builds which speced out the chrome front buckles.

Matt, do you have a pic which would show the front surface of the inside rear wheel well? A pic from the rear at an angle would show this area in front of the rear tire. Thanks,

Tom

[psychostang]

I believe the star denotes the optional custom interior as being present.

[RivNut]

Custom interior is designated by the three digit TRIM code. For example: 608 is black standard vinyl, 618 is black custom cloth / vinyl, and 628 is custom black vinyl.  The * on the ROA website just references the footnote.

 

Here's a picture of the data plate on my '65.  It shows the 628 Black Custom Vinyl but no star.  

 

Here's a picture of the data plate from my '64.  It has the 621 Blue custom vinyl custom interior.  No star

 

 

 

Here's a picture of my '63's data plate.  748 White leather custom interior. No star.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[psychostang]

I see your point.  Interesting, as my cowl tag has the star.  It is an early build 65 Riv.

 

 

[hagster]

Also early 65? tag with star:
 

[RivNut]

* could be a designator for during which shift the car was built. I doubt that this will ever be resolved.

 

What color is the car whose data plate is shown in post # 25.  I think that SCO means special order paint. I have never seen option 5O (number five, letter O - not zero) on any reference material.  Anyone have an idea as to what it might be?

[Seafoam65]

    As a clue, on Pontiacs the 50 code was an exterior trim option code. I first thought maybe it designated the

exterior rocker molding option on a base interior car, but the tag in question indicates the custom interior.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[hagster]

Hi Ed,

Here is what Tom Mooney had to say about that code when I introduced the car to the forum:

The "50" on the Fisher Body tag is for "seat belt delete" which is also very unusual.

Edited February 28, 2018 by hagster (see edit history)

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, hagster said:

Hi Ed,

Here is what Tom Mooney had to say about that code when I introduced the car to the forum:

The "50" on the Fisher Body tag is for "seat belt delete" which is also very unusual.

Thanks. I'll see if I can get that added to the data codes list on the website.  Did he also address the SCO paint code?

 

Ed

[hagster]

The job number on its own is not very helpful in identifying the original color. Here is another quote from Tom:

"You are correct re the SCO referring to "special car order". The number after the code refers to the job number so to determine the exact original paint code one would need to have access to some original paperwork. Of course, there is investigative technique which will also net a very educated guess if conducted well.."

 

Link to discussion about my cars POP and Cowl Tag.

 

Thanks!

Allen

 

[Rivman]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 2:25 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Hi guys,

 

I had a '65 Riv come in today and it's loaded with options and I can decode most of the options on the cowl tag, but I don't know what 3B and 5G might be. Can anyone help with those? I checked the ROA website which has most of the codes, but nothing for those two.

 

 

Also, what does the star indicate next to PAINT? It's a Bamboo Cream car and I see code YY there, but why the star?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:40 PM, Seafoam65 said:

                         That is a GOOD LOOKING 65 Riviera! The consensus on the forum has been that nobody

knows what the star on the body tag meant. My car's tag has the star also in the same exact spot.

 

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 10:35 AM, Imperial62 said:

I appreciate the consensus is that nobody knows but that does not mean it does not mean something and I would just like to know (more).  Are you Riviera experts stating that the star is NOT on every 1965 Riviera data plate?  Only some?   If it is on every data plate, then that tells me something, may not be the answer, but it tells me that the Riviera factory management must have wanted an identifier for Riviera designated plates. 

 

If the star is not on every 65 Riviera, then one would look for patterns.  I don't know Rivieras, or if they were made at different plants.  Maybe the star means special order. 

 

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 2:39 PM, RivNut said:

Looks like something you'd enjoy researching.  When you figure it out, please let us know.  It will solve a 30 year old mystery. ?

 

Ed

 

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 2:54 AM, sean1997 said:

I don't think the star is related to any specific model, but it only shows up on tags from Flint cars.  Earliest tag I have with a star is 04B 1961 (LeSabre) and latest is 12C 1965 (1966 Electra 225).  I have pictures of about 215 tags with stars on them, more than 99% of them are for cars that don't have special order paint.

 

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 1:12 AM, psychostang said:

I believe the star denotes the optional custom interior as being present.

 

I was told by someone that they KNOW what the star is there for but they do not want to share?!?!?!?

[JZRIV]

2 hours ago, Imperial62 said:

Rivman

then they don’t know.  It would be silly not to share that information since it is not a value adding fact. It’s just curiosity at this point   Also I am not sure who your friend is but the topic has been well vetted here by the Riviera knowledgentcia. 

 

 

Here is one perspective. Depends on the individual who knows, what significance the star has in the build of the car, and how concerned the individual may be with providing data to the open internet market which includes "cloners". And no its not me. Some of these obscure unknown codes may end up being the only secret left to help vet a clone in the future. Amazing today with technology and money how new tags can be made and stamped with specific options and date codes to clone a car for financial gain. As Riviera's increase in desirability and value, this becomes a larger concern. I could understand in this world where it seems nothing is sacred anymore why someone might hold back making it public. 

[Matt Harwood]

7 minutes ago, JZRIV said:

Here is one perspective. Depends on the individual who knows, what significance the star has in the build of the car, and how concerned the individual may be with providing data to the open internet market which includes "cloners". And no its not me. Some of these obscure unknown codes may end up being the only secret left to help vet a clone in the future. Amazing today with technology and money how new tags can be made and stamped with specific options and date codes to clone a car for financial gain. As Riviera's increase in desirability and value, this becomes a larger concern. I could understand in this world where it seems nothing is sacred anymore why someone might hold back making it public. 

 

If it denoted a GS or something important like that, yes, I could see your point. But it seems to show up almost randomly--my '65 Riv is a base model and nobody's going to clone one of those. It might be just related to the guy who was stamping tags that day or what shift it was or something like that.

 

With Mopars, cars coming out of the Lynch Road plant in Detroit are notorious for having fender tags that are either incomplete or flat-out wrong. Apparently the guys making the tags up there just didn't care. Maybe the guys at Buick had their own little wink-and-a-nod fun with the tags that only they knew about but was ultimately meaningless. Haha, let's drop a symbol in here that the guys in 50 years will be scratching their heads over! Or maybe it's like the guys who would throw a handful of nuts and bolts into an inaccessible part of the car on the assembly line to create unfixable rattles for the dealers to deal with. Who knows?

[1965rivgs]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

If it denoted a GS or something important like that, yes, I could see your point. But it seems to show up almost randomly--my '65 Riv is a base model and nobody's going to clone one of those. It might be just related to the guy who was stamping tags that day or what shift it was or something like that.

 

With Mopars, cars coming out of the Lynch Road plant in Detroit are notorious for having fender tags that are either incomplete or flat-out wrong. Apparently the guys making the tags up there just didn't care. Maybe the guys at Buick had their own little wink-and-a-nod fun with the tags that only they knew about but was ultimately meaningless. Haha, let's drop a symbol in here that the guys in 50 years will be scratching their heads over! Or maybe it's like the guys who would throw a handful of nuts and bolts into an inaccessible part of the car on the assembly line to create unfixable rattles for the dealers to deal with. Who knows?

Hi Matt,

  Did you see the question I posed about a pic of your car`s front section of the rear inner wheel well? Reason I asked is because the factory mounting location for the outboard rear seat belt is smack dab thru the inner wheel well with a bolt, nut and a huge washer! Just curious, with the code on your Fisher tag, if this is true on your car?

  Tom

 

[sean1997]

Ed's idea of the star indicating the shift is a possibility.  It could also indicate something about the paint formulation.  By the mid-1960's GM of Canada was adding an extra digit to the paint code for cars painted with acrylic lacquer vs. those painted with enamel.  But in either case, I would have expected it to show up on the tags from cars built at all plants rather than just those built at Flint (FB and FL1 for the plant code).  I don't think it would affect the cars value since the star shows up on tags for everything from the Special to the Electra 225 Custom and for everything from sedans to convertibles and even station wagons. Or, maybe like Matt says, it was just added to drive us crazy.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by sean1997 (see edit history)

[psychostang]

I think RRA may be a special order paint, as depicted on the Wildcat.  Is your car cream colored?

[1965rivgs]

Flame Red top and bottom with  black painted wheels.

Tom Mooney

Edited June 15, 2022 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[65VerdeGS]

Do I take it this car has no options? 

 

I don't see any codes below the TRIM code 658.  Never seen a data plate with no option codes on it.

 

What does "212" mean at the bottom of the data plate?

[jframe]

1 hour ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Do I take it this car has no options? 

 

I don't see any codes below the TRIM code 658.  Never seen a data plate with no option codes on it.

 

What does "212" mean at the bottom of the data plate?

I agree. Never saw a data plate like this on a Riv.

[1965rivgs]

  That's because it's not a Riviera...observe the model number. It is a Wildcat 2 Dr hdtp. Most likely not built in Flint but it's hard to decipher the body build location. You guys are spoiled because all the Rivs were built in Flint and there is consistency...not so among the other assembly plants.

 

Tom Mooney

[65VerdeGS]

Sharp eye Tom!

 

Yes indeed, the model number on that cowl tag is not 49447 which is for Riviera.   As you note 46337 is for Wildcat 2 Dr hardtop.

 

The photo posted by ForwardLook58 shows that 46337 cowl tag installed on the firewall of a gold colored '65 Riviera.  At least it looks like it from the cowl vents visible in the photo. 

 

Why would someone go to the trouble of putting a Wildcat data plate on a Riviera?

 

Puzzled...