ASBESTOS IN ANTIQUE CARS.

[ted sweet]

was texting with a friend down under and he said it is a major deal there. major fines for importing a car with any asbestos anywhere on the car including engine gaskets. . what era cars have it except in the brakes?

[Craig Gillingham]

A friend and I were discussing this yesterday, he told me it was a total ban of asbestos in an imported car, that means clutch linings, brake linings, gaskets, and I imagine even some of the early copper-asbestos spark plug gaskets. I don't think asbestos has been used in brakes here for at least 15 years, I'm not sure about other countries.

 

This thread may answer some of your questions:

And a recent news article:

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/australian-border-force-detects-asbestos-in-classic-cars-owners-risk-thousands-of-dollars-in-fines/news-story/558ae57b52f7e995237f6e3193ea62b1

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Craig Gillingham (see edit history)

[Vintageben]

Yeah I've heard quite a bit about this lately and I'm not sure if it isn't just another revenue raiser because there is still heaps of asbestos in all sorts of things already here and quite a few communities where it was mined that are still trying to deal with it but we don't here that much about that side. I guess what I'm trying to say is while we need to handle asbestos carefully, there are still other dodgy and dangerous products coming in to the country that don't get picked up maybe it's just chance or maybe there is not as much money to be made out of their discovery. As you can probably tell I'm a little over the nanny state that we are becoming down here. Anyway I better sign off before I really have a huge rant about all the stupid stuff our government is doing.

[c49er]

Better be more scared of our old cars and asbestos...Jesus save us.

[wayne sheldon]

Well,  Like Vintageben in Australia, I too, in Califunny USA need to be a little careful what I say. But nanny states (in any hemisphere), and unrealistic alarm are to me very important subjects. Just yesterday, to a "thread drift" comment, I responded about the asbestos scare. Are there serious real concerns? Yes. Do I believe they are blown way out of proportion? Absolutely. 

 

What I wrote yesterday, in its entirety (including the two closing lines which won't make sense since you likely will not have read the previous postings leading to my comments, so you may wish to ignore them, I include them here only to be able to say "in its entirety"):

 

"Asbestos is funny stuff. It is not politically correct to say this, but it is usually not nearly so deadly as it is claimed to be. And yes, as a former contractor, and school maintenance worker, I have had to attend several asbestos safety seminars. Natural asbestos fibers are so common in so many areas of the country, and windblown any day the wind blows, that if asbestos was as bad as claimed (remember, most of those claims are by lawyers looking for sheep to shear), there are large regions in Califunny that would be deadly kill zones. One such area in South San Jose is home to nearly a million people, and the asbestos loaded hillside has been known for nearly a century and a half. Farmers a hundred years ago knew that the area was no good for farming (which in and of itself IS rather suspicious) because nothing of value could be grown there. But hey! You think those in power are going to let a ten square mile area of some of the most valuable land in the nation sit undeveloped? 

The real danger has to do with individual DNA and immune systems. Some people are especially susceptible to its effects. I knew a very nice fellow that worked in a brake and clutch shop about forty years ago. Suddenly, with almost no warning, he developed asbestos related cancer at barely over 45 years of age and died a few months later. 
This susceptibility is something I hope gets much more and better study soon. With DNA understanding, it should be possible to find who is susceptible early enough in their lives to avoid dangerous areas and careers. 
There are many other potentially dangerous chemicals and compounds. Less than thirty years ago, I lost a good friend (in the antique Studebaker and Horseless Carriage crowd) because he had worked for many years in a business machines service and repair business. At the age of about fifty, he died due to organ failure because of exposure to a certain cleaning fluid. While the fluid is now considered a "known risk", most people that had been heavily exposed to it for a hundred years lived long, rich, and full lives. Something in his genetics made him more susceptible than most. 
At this time, still. Discretion may be the better part of valor. Play it safe. 

Susanne, I do hope the kid you knew is doing fine. 

Wonderful Photo! We don't see enough original era photos of the elusive wide-track cars. Thank you all."

 

 

South San Jose is in California (I spelled it here the proper way because of out-of-USA readers here that may not be familiar with my usually using my personally preferred spelling), in the USA.

 

Going all crazy and alarmist about every risk in life, is (at best) the little boy who cried wolf. At its worst, it creates "fixes" that are far more dangerous than the original danger ever was. Once they become overly politicized? You can jolly well bet that a very few people are making a ton of money from the exaggerated lies. And guess who pays for that.

Because of my former professional connections, I happen to know about the situation in several areas of Califunny (my preferred spelling). However, I would expect that there is nothing unusual about here. Even in Australia, there are probably many hundreds of natural asbestos deposits. In one of the seminars I attended about ten years ago, I was informed of about ten known exposed natural deposit sites known in Nevada County alone (I filed away the map when I was forced to retire a few years ago, but probably do still have it). Nevada County is where I currently live. And one of the largest known natural deposits in the county is less than three miles (about 4 km) from my house. And I don't worry about it.

 

Banning the importation of a few old cars because they may have an ounce of asbestos in it? Will do NOTHING to protect any decent honest person. It can only line the pockets of liars and thieves masquerading as politicians, or others, that will "fix" the problem and protect you.

 

I'll shut up now.

[hidden_hunter]

Australia used to have huge asbestos mining operations which have resulted in some towns being abandoned.

 

Its been a big deal as long as I can remember to the extent one of the territories pulled down 500+ houses.

 

Importation of asbestos has been illegal for some time, its being enforced now is the change

[Larry Schramm]

I have read that California requires warnings/ notices on all products that may cause cancer.  The one that IMO creates chicken little syndrome is the warning on play sand saying something to the effect: California Warning, This product has been known to cause cancer.  On every bag of plain old sand.

 

Not living in California, is there a sign to every beach entrance saying being exposed to sand can cause cancer?

Edited February 11, 2018 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[trimacar]

25 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

I have read that California requires warnings/ notices on all products that may cause cancer.  The one that IMO creates chicken little syndrome is the warning on play sand saying something to the effect: California Warning, This product has been known to cause cancer.  On every bag of plain old sand.

 

Not living in California, is there a sign to every beach entrance saying being exposed to sand can cause cancer?

 

I'm not sure about the beach signs, but Larry, you're not far off the mark on signage.  Every industrial plant that I ever worked or visited in California has a sign at the entrance, stating that there are chemicals or substances at that facility which can cause cancer.  Of course there are, heck, every HOUSE has something in it that has been shown to cause cancer at some point of time.  Overstating the obvious costs businesses a lot of money, one of the reasons California is not a friendly state for any business.  See signs below, it's the law to post these signs everywhere.

 

If you think that you've seen the end of it, California is now considering a law that every cup of coffee sold must come with a cancer warning.  Not a joke, look it up....

 

Now, before anyone tap dances on my pointy little head, I think it's great that people are aware of the hazards of living that lead to the big sleep.  No number of signs can make up for lack of common sense, though.

[retiredmechanic74]

6 minutes ago, trimacar said:

 

I'm not sure about the beach signs, but Larry, you're not far off the mark on signage.  Every industrial plant that I ever worked or visited in California has a sign at the entrance, stating that there are chemicals or substances at that facility which can cause cancer.  Of course there are, heck, every HOUSE has something in it that has been shown to cause cancer at some point of time.  Overstating the obvious costs businesses a lot of money, one of the reasons California is not a friendly state for any business.  See signs below, it's the law to post these signs everywhere.

 

If you think that you've seen the end of it, California is now considering a law that every cup of coffee sold must come with a cancer warning.  Not a joke, look it up....

 

Now, before anyone tap dances on my pointy little head, I think it's great that people are aware of the hazards of living that lead to the big sleep.  No number of signs can make up for lack of common sense, though.

The ones in the grocery store windows are the ones that would scare me. California supplies a lot of vegetables to the rest of the Country. Isn't California the home of Monsanto??  

[Rusty_OToole]

Some old cars may contain asbestos insulation in the floor boards or firewall. I should think only the most expensive cars of the twenties and thirties. Other than that, brake linings, clutch facings etc are well known.

 

Asbestos is NOT dangerous unless you grind it up, throw it in the air and breathe the fibres. These fibres do not break down or decompose, if they get in your lungs they stay in there forever causing irritation and damage. This is the problem, and why brake linings and clutches are bad, they continually wear down releasing fibres. Anyone who worked on brakes and blew the dust out with compressed air was working in hazardous conditions.

 

If you have asbestos insulation and leave it alone it will not harm you. There are places with asbestos insulated boilers, pipes etc where it is better and cheaper to leave them be than it is to tear everything out. The same would go for asbestos insulated firewall or floor boards. Leave them alone and they will do no harm.

[60FlatTop]

Dihydrogen monoxide is becoming a greater concern in the United States these days. And twenty years ago it was just a casual comment in a Godzilla movie.

 

And it is more common than asbestos.

Bernie

[Rusty_OToole]

Let's not forget solar radiation. Prolonged exposure to solar radiation can cause 3d degree burns skin damage and even skin cancer.

[60FlatTop]

That stuff is like the old fire triangle; heat, fuel, oxygen. Regulation, taxation, and fines perpetuate this topic. Always has, always will.

 

AND sunshine is being taxed in Colorado.

[Mark Gregory]

This was posted on the AACA last summer .

 

If you leave Australia to go to a car show with your car .

You might not be able to bring the car back because it has asbestos .

Australia has a zero tolerance to asbestos importation while the rest of the world seems to accept around 1% content.
 
Recently our Australian Border Protection Force realised that older cars being imported could contain asbestos components and there have been nightmare tales of owners having to remove clutches, brakes, gaskets, insulation from cars which were suspected to contain the material. 
 
The matter has now been considered by the authorities and this is the way our system will now operate!!

[46 woodie]

Larry and Rusty are 100% correct. My job required me to attend a three day asbestos abatement seminar. I learned if it's not airborne, with a chance of inhalation it won't hurt you. There are millions of houses with asbestos insulation on their heating pipes and if you leave it alone it is fine. People seem to think that if you are in the same room with it you will die. it's just like the lead hysteria, every house built before the early '80s has copper piping that was joined using 50/50 lead solder. 

[50jetback]

It matters not what our individual views are of asbestos - this is the document that has pretty much stopped the importation of older vehicles into Australia

 

asbestos.pdf

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by 50jetback (see edit history)

[Ghg]

Why didn't people live longer than they did before any of these harmful chemicals were invented? People were lucky to live past there 40's Now it's common for a person to live till a 100 years old and beyond and was exposed to many chemicals.

[trimacar]

41 minutes ago, Ghg said:

Why didn't people live longer than they did before any of these harmful chemicals were invented? People were lucky to live past there 40's Now it's common for a person to live till a 100 years old and beyond and was exposed to many chemicals.

I think longevity now has more to do with health care than with chemical exposure.  It's amazing what can be done today to diagnose health issues and prolong life, albeit extremely expensive.  I just had my heart inspected via a small hole in my wrist, fascinating.

 

Back when, you got sick, and your life depended on the local doctor's talent.  More times than not, before all the advances in medicinal care, serious illness left you at room temperature. 

[Buffalowed Bill]

Was the recent huge tide of American iron, exacerbated by any knowledge of the  this impending legislation? If not, how do you Australians, characterize the movement, and how do you foresee the future?

[50jetback]

23 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

Was the recent huge tide of American iron, exacerbated by any knowledge of the  this impending legislation? If not, how do you Australians, characterize the movement, and how do you foresee the future?

 

The legislation banning importation of any asbestos or asbestos contaminated product goes back to 2003. What has occurred recently has been the hard line enforcement at the border.

We are told the hard line enforcement came about from inspections of NEW vehicles imported from China which were found to still be using asbestos material.

 

There is no impact on vehicles already in the country but another business opportunity seems to be emerging. I know at least one Los Angeles based business who claim they can inspect your vehicle, remove asbestos and supply the appropriate importation documents. As you can imagine this is not a cheap option.

 

It may well drive the value of our cars ( which are in Australia ) higher.

 

Tine will tell.

[46 woodie]

50 jetback, I just read the document you provided. Believe me I do understand the concern by the Australian Government. There is a huge difference between asbestos that is totally encapsulated in a head gasket and a mechanic that uses an air gun to remove brake drum dust when doing a brake job. I believe education and enforcement would be a better track, rather than ban all items that have asbestos in them. Any materials expert will tell you that asbestos is safe if handled properly and is still being used in industry.

[Stude Light]

Pretty scary looking