Hudson Museum Closing Controversy

[dep5]

Eldon left the Amish faith. The Amish community probably didn't want the cars but Eldon prevailed. Eldon passes on, Amish have the last say. 

[28plymouthman]

I have been to the museum and the Gilmore museum with the National Plymouth club. They are awesome. It is too bad that it will be selling off the cars. I know it would be nice to donate your old vehicle to a museum for people to look and appreciate it.  I have been told by our local museum if there is not a lot of interest in a specific vehicle anymore because of change of interest of vehicles that they would sell off some inventory to keep the museum funded. It would be a shame for the family members to see the sell off.

[Joe in Canada]

But they are $5,000,000. ahead ( valued at the price when built) when they sold the building they got for free.

 Sorry I forgot they probably squandered  it already.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

1 hour ago, Joe in Canada said:

But they are $5,000,000. ahead ( valued at the price when built) when they sold the building they got for free.

 Sorry I forgot they probably squandered  it already.

 

The building was paid for by selling bonds. I believe the town claimed the sale of the building covered the outstanding debt. So while they didn’t get the building for free, they seem to have been made whole when it was sold. I said above that I thought the town acted with good intentions. Giving it more thought, I still think they did initially. But if pocket the money from the sale of the cars, I don’t believe that will still hold true.  The honorable thing to do would be to make sure the town is not left with a burden from this situation, but also not profit from it. 

 

On 2/8/2018 at 7:13 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Actually, the article I linked to in Posting #7 mentioned that the

museum lost $150,000 a year in fees from the innkeeper's tax.

 

 

The innkeeper tax was reinstated. It was removed when it was believed the bonds were paid off. But when it came to light the bonds were refinanced, it was put back in place.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Buick64C (see edit history)

[Pilgrim65]

Great photos , thanks for posting , love that 46 convertible 6 , must be one of the prettiest cars of the era 

[Ozstatman]

Link to Hemmings article on auction

 

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/04/05/worldwide-auctioneers-to-sell-hostetler-hudson-museum-collection/?refer=news

[trimacar]

One of those times I wish I had really deep pockets.  It's been mentioned numerous times, but this collection so belongs at the Gilmore Museum complex.

 

Yes, it's good that these cars will get back in the hands of collectors, and of course some will go to other museums, but wouldn't it be nice if a deep pocket guy stepped in and bought them all, moving them to the Gilmore.

 

Oh well, if wishes were horses beggars would ride and all that.....

[John_S_in_Penna]

Very little has been written here of the town's

maneuvering, which to me seems underhanded.

They stopped giving the innkeeper's tax, which had been

specifically allocated to the museum.  They "packed"

the board with an extra member who, they probably

knew, would vote with them to end the museum.

 

Skulduggery;  chicanery;  collusion;  probable dishonesty.

To me, that describes the problems at the Hostetler museum.

Eldon Hostetler was a successful, honest, and humble man,

whereas I think some involved acted in an opposite manner.

It's NOT merely a case of another car museum suffering from

a lack of funds.

Edited April 6, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 2/11/2018 at 10:26 AM, Buick64C said:

The innkeeper tax was reinstated. It was removed when it was believed the bonds were paid off. But when it came to light the bonds were refinanced, it was put back in place.

 

Mr. Buick, now that you mentioned it, I did see a Hemmings

article that mentioned the reinstatement of the revenue

from the innkeeper's tax;  but it also said the reinstatement

was "too little, too late."  I wonder:  Was the amount

FULLY reinstated?  Did the town make up the shortfall

that occurred during that supposed interim period?

 

It's hard to believe that the town would "mistakenly"

end the museum's funding source without fully knowing

about the bonds.  It sounds to me that the town really had

the goal of killing off the museum at the forefront of their thoughts.

I still smell dishonesty, or AT LEAST a total

lack of good faith on the part of the town fathers.

Edited April 7, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:40 PM, Buick64C said:

Jeff,

 

Here's a few more. The Town Car has a Murphy Body.

What is behind this car? Color is kinda charcoal/greenish. Looks preety sleek.

[Restorer32]

The car to the left of the Phaeton has its landau bars installed upside down.

[CarNucopia]

2 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

What is behind this car? Color is kinda charcoal/greenish. Looks preety sleek.

 

I looked through my pictures, but couldn’t find that one. I’m sure it will be on the auction sell sheet.

[trimacar]

There are apparently a lot of outside factors at work here.  The Blue Gate Garden Inn owner now apparently owns the building where the cars are located, this is apparently a local family owner and they apparently want nothing to do with the cars.  It sounds as though the cars were "protected" under IRS laws, but the land and building were not?

 

It's a very small town, but the entire economy is apparently based on a tourist attraction for the Amish community, and Amish practices.  The cars don't fit, the town doesn't want them there, the owners of the building don't want them there, so it was doomed from the start.

 

Why the Hostetler family picked this town, and this method of giving the cars away, no one will ever know.  I can understand if they were childless, but there's at least one son involved in all this.  Why didn't they give title to him?  Yes, there would have been taxes and such, but it couldn't have been any bigger mess than this situation.

 

A greedy town basically run by one powerful and well to do family, and the legacy of the car collection is meaningless to them. 

 

The money from this auction will end up in the pockets of locals, one way or the other, it's happening in other towns across the country.  Look at Jackson, Mississippi, for example, a town that's deteriorating daily while the local government pads their and their friend's pockets.  The money will be used to hire "consultants" and to erect local tourist attractions, putting money into the local hands.  Let's say I want a chunk of it, OK, I'll build a gazebo in the town park, give me $100K, that meets the requirements of the IRS of public use, yet I end up with a profit of $90K in my pocket. 

 

The love of money is the root of all evil.....where have I heard that before?

[auburnseeker]

He probably thought he was doing good for the community like a lot of people that leave communities personal property,  whether it be real estate or something like this.  He probably never imagined they would sell the building that the cars were housed in,  who in their right mind would normally do that.  So basically the community he must have liked and wanted to benefit from his vision,  stabbed him in the back, legally.  

Too bad as others had mentioned,  he didn't have the cars future in mind as hi only priority,  or he would have possibly worked something out with the Gilmore,  which would have had the cars in mind before the community.   Yes as others mentioned,  they will get into the hands of collectors,  but some collectors lock them away, to be seen by only a few fortunate.  Some of these look pretty valuable and aren't likely to end up at your local cruise in any time soon.  Some may even end up out of the country never to be repatrioted.   Atleast in the museum they were able to be seen by the Public. 

[42319DB34]

RE : post 51 ?

Per : post 32 , item #6, it is a '29 model  "L"  

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, trimacar said:

Why the Hostetler family picked this town, and this method of giving the cars away, no one will ever know.  I can understand if they were childless, but there's at least one son involved in all this.  Why didn't they give title to him? 

 

From what I have read, their son, Eldon Hostetler Jr., has been

on the board of the museum, acting genuinely on its behalf.

He was the only one on the board who didn't agree to 

the scheme to end the museum, so, I gather, the town

added an extra person to the board to get the needed 

super-majority to override the son's vote.

 

And please read the first a comment on a Hemmings article.

I know the writer of the comment, and this gives some new

information regarding the Gilmore Museum, which I have not

heard anywhere else.  I copy the pertinent point below in green:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/02/01/board-of-directors-votes-to-close-hostetlers-hudson-museum-liquidate-inventory/#comments-block

 

"...I remember well at Waterloo NY in the late 90’s at a National Woodie Club

function Eldon and Esta attended in their beautiful white Hudson Woodie,

while I was the National President of NWC. Eldon told me of his plans to build

a Hudson Museum in Shipshewana on land he had donated to the town for

this purpose and they would in turn, house and maintain the museum.

I also remember telling him he probably would not live long enough to see

this happen and if he did , politicans would find a way to derail his good

intentions along the way. Seems I was half right on this and a year or so

before he died, I spoke again with him and Esta at Hershey and also met

Eldon Jr. there for the first time , where they were showing their beautiful

Railton. Eldon shared with me at that time that he was working on a plan

to move the collection to The Gilmore at Hickory Corners, MI, because

the city fathers were not keeping their word on the agreement. Sadly for

those of us who love old cars and Hudsons in particular, he did not live

long enough to see this through. ..."

Edited April 6, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Wow, what a shame he didn't make a deal with the Gilmore.  It's a wonderful organization and is dedicated to the preservation of the history of the automobile, and has partnered so well with other marque museums.

 

Again, sure wish someone would swoop in and buy them all, guess that's a pipe dream....wait, aren't there 60K members of the AACA, including spouses?  $100 each and that's six million right there....hmmmm....

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

Again, sure wish someone would swoop in and buy them all, guess that's a pipe dream....wait, aren't there 60K members of the AACA, including spouses?  $100 each and that's six million right there....hmmmm....

But I only have room for a few here at the house in the new shop.;)  Where are you going to put the ones you need to store for us without a dedicated building to house the entire collection?  I think the woody would be appropriate for me given my location in a resort town.

 

Would have been nice to have seen more foresight given into their housing.  Looks like originally he never figured the town would sell the community center.  (seems like a dirty deal to me all the way around).  How many towns sell a community center,  unless it's to build a new one because the old one is outdated and doesn't meet current federal regulations for safety and access.   Almost seems planned,  especially with no stipulations being made about the housing the collection was to be held in.   Like someone knew that angle from the beginning.  

Sell building,  overcharge for rent or remove the tax that paid the maintenance rent,  now no way for it to be solvent so it must be disbursed. Perfect plan. 

That would never happen ion government though,  would it? 

Kind of like the APA around here.

The Nature conservancy buys the land for all to use,  then a few years later,  sell it to the state who in hand with the APA.  reclassify it as forever wild and eliminate all but foot traffic into it.  These tracts are huge and would take weeks to hike.  They used to be managed forest.

Oh and when the state buys it from the Nature conservancy the, conservancy sells it as a profit.  Now the towns that though they were getting high use land,  with snowmobiling and ATV access,  get shoved out in the name of conservancy and preservation. 

All this happens while the state is heavily in debt.  Where do they get the money to buy the land if they are broke?  

Remember the land is usually heavily timbered by the owner before they sell it to the conservancy so it's the furthest thing from pristine wilderness, and wouldn't have been as heavily logged if they knew it was going to be maintained as a working forest so it would reforest for new cutting in a shorter time span. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

5 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

The car to the left of the Phaeton has its landau bars installed upside down.

Normally you are correct re landau irons. In this case you are incorrect insomuch as the way this car

was originally built. In the photos below, the car on the top (Hostetler's car) is correct, while the car in the middle is incorrect (based on the black & white factory photo, below).

 

[Buffalowed Bill]

I love the collection! The collection is a true testimony to the history of the self made man who broke free of the religious restraints, to create something of benefit to society, while enriching himself. He made the transition without much of the self serving attitude of many who seek wealth and fame.

 

From a car lovers perspective the museum is a collection of a marque that is not seen enough. I have no doubt that many of these cars the only ones like them left. This collection has done much for me to bridge the gap between what I thought I knew about Hudson, and what I know now. I don't think that the negative aspects of the museum's closing can be overstated.

 

We had only visited the museum once. That was six years ago when we toured there from South Bend at the time of the Studebaker International. We were planning to go again, after the the same event, in May of last year. In fact we did go down to Shipshewanna, but it was Sunday, in Amish country, and the museum was closed. Mary an I discussed the futility of survival in the middle of nowhere, and closing on Sunday. Understanding the inevitability of the situation doesn't make it any easier to accept the results. I think that the best that we can hope for is that someone will step up, buy the collection and move it. It might entail selling off some of the cars, and downsizing, but at least it would survive.

[nick8086]

This Museum got a donation of 175 cars.. with a clause they could not sell any thing for 5 to 7 years to fund it..

 

Here are a few cars for sale ..

 

Pm me if you want a phone number..

 

I see a 1925 pierce arrow in the list..

Edited April 7, 2018 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[JACK M]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:04 AM, West Peterson said:

Normally you are correct re landau irons. In this case you are incorrect insomuch as the way this car

was originally built. In the photos below, the car on the top (Hostetler's car) is correct, while the car in the middle is incorrect (based on the black & white factory photo, below).

 

 

 

Upside down maybe, but obviously on the wrong side of the car.

[Restorer32]

No, the bump in the center of the landau covers the hinge (or simulated hinge in this case) and always goes up except on hearses where they are for some reason usually upside down. On the Hudson they need to be turned upside down so both the hinge is up and the shape of the bar is like in the b&w pic.

[JACK M]

I don't think you could change the direction of the curve without putting it on the other side of the car.

Unless you wanted to see the back of it.

 

I am no expert on this kind of stuff so tell me if I am wrong.

[West Peterson]

For the brown and creme car, yes, you'd have to swap sides as well. For the two-tone blue (silver?) car, you'd have to rotate the bars 180 degrees. However, it looks to me like the two ends are different, so I'm not sure how that could work.

[Restorer32]

Think about it. The hinge point is under the center of the round part. If the top in question actually went down the landaus would stick awkwardly out behind the car. Pet peeve of mine. Sometimes hard to visualize.

[Restorer32]

The car in the B&W pic is correct. Any way else is incorrect. Sometimes the landaus just need rotated 180 degrees. Sometimes, if the finish on the back of the landaus is not up to snuff it is necessary to swap them from side to side. 

[Willy]

There is a small auto museum in Montana, privately owned. I have lived here twenty four years, and it is never open! I can look in the window and see the cars, but have never been able to go in. Wonder if that's the way the owner wants! Last year, Travelling from Iowa to Montana, we stopped at a large auto museum - can't think of the name, but it had large billboards advertising it for miles. Many of the cars were barely cleaned, in poor repair, some, I think on dirt floors, and some outside. Some just rotting away. As I remember, you could "adopt" one of the cars, and send money to have that car repaired, restored or maintained. And some were sold. Is it only me who wishes I could win a big lottery? But I guess, I'd have to play the lottery to win it!

[g-g-g0]

Maybe the place you are speaking of is Pioneer Village in Minden, Nebraska. Have heard that it is in a declining state due to lack of funding/visitors.

[JACK M]

I stopped at the museum that is attached to an old prison in Montana.

Deer Lodge or something like that.

They had signs on the hiway and it was a good place to park for the night and see the collection in the morning.

[cahartley]

On 2/3/2018 at 6:41 PM, alsancle said:

All museums are financially almost impossible to make work.  Without a huge endowment (think Nethercutt) or a super supportive and active board it is only a matter of time before they bite the dust.

Exactly.

How many times do the same people visit the same museums more than once or twice?

I don't even frequent car shows around here because everywhere one goes it's the same cars.

I hope whichever auctioneer gets the privilege will archive or post the results at least.

The 4-door Town Car is one of the prettiest cars I've ever seen........ 

 

 

 

[DaveHilliard]

I'm sure the cars will find good homes. Kind of sad that the collection will be split up and no longer available to be viewed though. Is there no way they could have had a large fundraiser to save the collection in the museum?

[Mike36]

On 4/12/2018 at 9:21 AM, g-g-g0 said:

Maybe the place you are speaking of is Pioneer Village in Minden, Nebraska. Have heard that it is in a declining state due to lack of funding/visitors.

My first visit to Pioneer Village was in 1963. My third visit was 3 years ago. It is getting in a run down condition, and I find that very sad. This place has antique everything. Anyone traveling Interstate 80 across Nebraska would enjoy a visit, if you like old stuff. It is a short drive south of 80 in Minden, Nebraska.

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, DaveHilliard said:

 Is there no way they could have had a large fundraiser to save the collection in the museum?

 

From what I have read, it's not the case that the

town made a noble effort to have a great museum,

but failed with a heavy heart.  I gather that they

didn't really want the Hostetlers' museum, and undertook all

sorts of machinations--underhanded, I believe--to get rid of it.

 

If the town had acted differently, wouldn't the Hostetlers

be proud to see that their years of car collecting and care

were preserved for future generations to learn from!

Edited April 13, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[franklinman]

The sale of the cars will indeed be a VERY LARGE fundraiser. The only problem is WHO will benefit from the sale!!!

[trimacar]

42 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

From what I have read, it's not the case that the

town made a noble effort to have a great museum,

but failed with a heavy heart.  I gather that they

didn't really want the Hostetlers' museum, and undertook all

sorts of machinations--underhanded, I believe--to get rid of it.

I agree.  One can Google "Shipshewana" and see them bragging about the huge tourist trade the town enjoys.  It would have taken very little thought to figure a way to keep the museum intact.

 

Your analysis is spot on.   They don't want it, and all they can see is the 4 million dollars in the coffers.

 

If I were a resident of this town, I'd want full disclosure on how it's spent.  It would be interesting to see how the money moves around....

[motoringicons]

I never understood why someone would build a car museum in the middle of an Amish tourist trap.  Especially a museum of single marque cars that originated from Detroit. 

 

Yes, the town of Shipshewana has a huge tourist trade but people are going there to see horse buggies, cheese, quilts, horse poop,  and "antique" stores full of Chinese-made Americana doodads and trinkets.

 

I understand that Eldon was from Shipshewana, but, did anyone besides Eldon, his wife and his son ever care about a Hudson Museum? I bet 99% of Shipshewana didn't even know what a Hudson was before the museum opened and they certainly never cared. It's was almost like Eldon said:, "Hey, I have this collection of old cars that are really cool, and, I'll give them to you and pay for a museum, even though you didn't ask for this and it really doesn't fit into the scope of  what this town represents." And the town folks replied: "Hey, what do we have to loose, have at it buddy". 

And they built a museum and nobody came.

 

Why would anyone think this would last???

 

Let's be real: This forum is full of knowledgable car collectors who understand and appreciate the cars that are (were) part of this museum. How many of you visited this museum and how many times did you visit it?  Would have, should have, and could have's don't count.  I have been there three times since its inception. The pittance that they earned from the admission costs from my three visits wouldn't pay for a two-weeks supply of toilet paper.

 

Heck,  even the city of Detroit, aka The Motor City, struggles with their automotive-based landmarks and museums.

 

I agree that it will be nice to see these cars get into the hands of collectors. The reality is that even if this museum were to stay open, the cars would have suffered from neglect, lack of use and lack of maintenance. I am sure these cars are now in lesser condition than when they were

purchased and put on display.

 

Museums = Mausoleums.. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I think some of us are upset about this issue for one reason....we collect cars, and when we have a really, really nice collection, and try to make some provisions for it staying together, then the best laid plans of mice and men aft gang a-gley.  http://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_best_laid_schemes_o'_mice_and_men_gang_aft_a-gley_mean

 

I have a couple of nice cars.  I would like to think that when I leave this place, that somehow my stewardship of them will be recognized and appreciated.  Sad truth, probably not going to happen, when I'm gone they're just commodities to be sold.

 

In the spirit of the Gilmore Museum, it would have been great if the cars had been plopped there.  Instead, they were plopped in a town where the people in charge could not care less, they have Amish on their minds and the associated tourist trade, and dollar signs prevailed.  Interestingly, this is somewhat ironic, although predictable....the true Amish, although they shun electricity and fossil fuel vehicles, have no problem with money, and are actually very good at managing same......

[dei]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

I have a couple of nice cars.  I would like to think that when I leave this place, that somehow my stewardship of them will be recognized and appreciated.  Sad truth, probably not going to happen, when I'm gone they're just commodities to be sold.

 

I've been to see this collection before it was given to the town and thoroughly enjoyed Eldon showing the group how the vent window rolled down after the drivers window went down (or was it reversed?) on one of his coupes. Somewhere I have video showing the cars and possibly him too.

Like Trimacar I'm coming around to what he feels too. In fact, when I get the Cougar out this April, I'm going to fix the drivers window and do a good cleaning before placing her up for sale and see where that leads...

 

The up and coming Auction results should prove interesting.

Edited April 13, 2018 by dei (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]