Hudson Museum Closing Controversy

[g-g-g0]

I see on the local news (South Bend, IN) that the city fathers in Shipshewana have decided to sell the Hudson collection located in the museum. Indicated that they will be sold at auction some time this summer. A sad day for sure!

[Xander Wildeisen]

Very sad to hear. I have never been there. I remember reading in the HET club when they were working to put all of that together. Hope all the cars find good homes.

[John_S_in_Penna]

An earlier thread brought this situation to light.

It was the collection of the late Eldon Hostetler,

a modest man, formerly Amish, who made his fortune

though an agricultural invention.  I met him at Hershey

just a few years ago.  He passed on quite recently--in 2016.

 

Here's a link that explains the background to setting up

the museum.  It says, " In 2005, recognizing their business success,

the Hostetlers gave back to their life-long community of Shipshewana

by donating a large portion of their car collection along with

18 acres of prime real-estate to create a conference center and museum.

The Shipshewana Event Center, which houses the museum, opened

in 2007, with many of the overflow of Eldon’s cars remaining on exhibit

at the Gilmore [Museum]."

 

https://www.gilmorecarmuseum.org/eldon-hostetler-noted-hudson-automobile-collector-inventor-philanthropist-dies-93/

 

I'm sure that, in setting up his museum for the public,

that he didn't expect it to be sold off so quickly by the

city.  But most museums don't take good care

of old cars--and a museum governed by city administrators

might be even less likely to care for them properly over many

decades.

 

Putting the cars in the hands of caring individual collectors

might be the best thing that happened to those cars. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Here is an article on the decision to close the

museum and sell off the cars.  Evidently how

they are to be sold isn't yet decided.

 

http://wsbt.com/news/local/local-rare-car-collection-to-be-auctioned

[trimacar]

This is a pure money grab by the town, from what I can see.  They have no less than 10 festivals they advertise for the town, so there's money flowing, they just don't want any flowing to the old cars. 

 

Proper management and fund raising could probably get the museum closer to break even, and even if it loses a little money, it's part of what will bring people to the town to spend OTHER money.

 

That said, as mentioned, having the cars back in the general population is probably best.

 

As far as how they'll be sold, the website prominently advertises a local auction company, that's probably the way they'll go.  An auction of such a well known collection of car won't take much effort or advertising to market.

 

The man left cars, land, and money to build the museum.  One would sure think his lawyers would have included some kind of clause that the city had to keep it open for a certain period of time.  One would also think that there is additional monies from his estate that could be used to fund the museum staying open, but if that's the case the city and city's politicians are greedy and doesn't want to lose that too.

 

 

http://www.shipshewana.com/attractions.php

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by trimacar (see edit history)

[Mikefit]

One word comes to mind. GREED $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[John_S_in_Penna]

Here's another interesting article.  If true, it appears to me

that the town didn't really want the museum in the first place.

They cut off its $150,000 annual funding from an

innkeeper's tax;  and the town was even expected to

maneuver to add an extra seat to the museum's board so the

town could vote to disband the museum!  To me, it smells like

bad faith, even underhandedness.

 

http://www.goshennews.com/news/local_news/shipshewana-s-hudson-car-museum-collection-may-be-sold/article_2be3371d-94de-583a-a625-8166b42791bf.html

 

Evidently, one seat on the museum board is always to be

occupied by a member of the Hostetler family.

"Before the council can vote, the museum board must also take action

on the liquidation. According to Ryan Riegsecker, whose company

Blue Gate Holdings, owns the town center, if the museum board votes

2-1 to sell the cars, that won’t be enough votes to make it happen.

He said a 75 percent vote needs to occur under the museum board’s bylaws.

A notice for the 4 p.m. museum board meeting states that a vote is

scheduled to appoint someone — expected to be Eldon Hostetler Jr.

[filling a seat left vacant by the death of Eldon Hostetler's wife]— to fill the

open seat, and then add a fourth person to the board  [emphasis added].

The board then will conduct a business meeting."

Edited February 1, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Mikefit]

Wouldn't it be cool if all bidders if and when they have an auction all bidders would agree to not bid over say $500.00 for each car. Would be a wake up call for the town fathers LOL

[trimacar]

Would be even cooler is some quite well-to-do individual stepped in, bought the whole collection, and moved it to the Gilmore Museum in Michigan.....

[auburnseeker]

They actually did have a clause that the museum had to be open as long as Eldon or his wife were living.  As soon as they both passed within a year of one another, they seem to think time to sell. (greedily rubbing hands together) 

The also sold the building to an investor it was housed in,  then cut the tax (town's rarely cut taxes).  Sounds very planned.  Almost criminal.  

How many town festivals or other events ever are self sufficient.  Very few.  That's why they are sponsored.  Often through taxes.  The benefit is to the community in increased revenue for the local businesses which then generate more taxes.

Edited February 1, 2018 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

they seem to think time to sell. (greedily rubbing hands together) 

 

Reminds me of an old High School friend who still had his '57 Ford 2 door in a back room on his home business body shop. I had looked it over and it was suffering. His Wife and her divorce lawyer valued the car as part of the settlement. Then, when he was out of town they removed it from the property to sell it. A few months later he received a bill for the amount the lawyer estimated because they couldn't sell the car for much more than scrap.

These small towns, cities, and sometimes it seems even higher are resorting to forms of extortion if that can impound it, tax it, or fine it.

"No regulation exists without a monetary fine benefit to the regulator."

 

" Sounds very planned." Kind of like banning smoking in public buildings and then legalizing pot. Step one, no pot smoking and the board meeting!

Bernie

[mikewest]

There is a good lesson to be learned here .... when you give something away its no long yours. These cars served their purpose to the owner who restored them. He enjoyed collecting and showing them off, and seeing his collection in a grand museum. Now that the folks are gone , its time to get them back in the hands of the collectors who can drive and show them. I Don't agree with the way the city is disposing of them but , but put it all aside there is a silver lining to this story. There are way to many wonderful cars locked up.  Set them free!

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, mikewest said:

There is a good lesson to be learned here .... when you give something away its no long yours.

 

Sometimes people figure this out when their irrevocable trust trustee goes off the reservation.

[John_S_in_Penna]

And everyone probably realizes that Eldon Hostetler was

an AACA member.  He showed his cars at Hershey.

And what a friendly, humble man he was, who would happily

take time on the show field to explain his cars to people.

Somewhere I still have his calling card.

Edited February 1, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

I went to the museum last year out of curiosity, as I was traveling in that area. It's a very impressive collection, but pales compared to other museums. On that trip, I also went to the Studebaker Museum, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum, the Lang Museum and a place called Cars of Yesteryear. The other places where set up so that they would appeal to a general audience, which isn't the case with Mr. Hostetler's museum. It's also off the beaten path in what really can't be called a town. 

 

My take on why they ended up in this situation is they were over optimistic when they created the museum. Hostetler donated the cars, the property and some money for the cause. The building the museum is in is actually the Shipshewana Event Center. The cars take up about half of the building with a theater/event space taking up the other half. I'd guess that a disproportionate amount of the cost of the building is for the non-museum part. I can't help but wonder if they had stuck with just a museum and structured things differently, if maybe the finances would have worked better. Instead, I my opinion, they over-leveraged themselves trying to create a bigger economic generator. The parking lot looks to have about 350 parking spaces, which tells me they had high traffic expectations. When I was there, there were only two other people looking around. And this was Auburn Auction weekend, which takes place less than an hour away.

 

My opinion is the town did what they did with good intentions. Unfortunately, they ended up with a very large carrying cost, in part, because of the non-car part of the project. The only way out of the situation is to stop spending money supporting the museum and use the proceeds to fill a financial hole.

 

I agree with the point above that the ideal would be for the collection to go to the Gilmore. To be able to see, in one place, the evolution of a long-gone marque is something special. That this will likely be likely be lost forever is truly sad. 

 

Edit:

To give you a sense of what Hostetler donated in addition to the cars:

"The Hostetlers also donated land valued at more than $500,000 and created an endowment for preservation and maintenance of the collection with an additional $500,000, according to Shipshewana Town Center General Manager Dean Morgan."

- Indiana Economic Digest

Edited February 1, 2018 by Buick64C (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

So often well intentioned municipal officials, for either political of emotional reasons take on projects that are bound to be losers in the long term. They typically don't put together a  realistic long term business plan (one that at least extends past the capital financing), and they typically under estimate the operating costs, and over-estimate revenue. They do it constantly for swimming pools, rinks, community buildings, and Museums, many of which either close within 15 years, or face huge operating losses (paid by tax payers). As a result, property tax payers wind up paying for someone else's dream/bad idea/lack of forethought. My guess is the local municipality will lose money on this endeavor in the end,  but have allowed the senior Hostetler's to realize their initial wish. In the end, probably best for the nice cars to be dispersed to a few collections or co0llectors where they can enjoy their next life. 

[CarNucopia]

8 minutes ago, Gunsmoke said:

So often well intentioned municipal officials, for either political of emotional reasons take on projects that are bound to be losers in the long term. They typically don't put together a  realistic long term business plan (one that at least extends past the capital financing), and they typically under estimate the operating costs, and over-estimate revenue. They do it constantly for swimming pools, rinks, community buildings, and Museums, many of which either close within 15 years, or face huge operating losses (paid by tax payers). As a result, property tax payers wind up paying for someone else's dream/bad idea/lack of forethought. My guess is the local municipality will lose money on this endeavor in the end,  but have allowed the senior Hostetler's to realize their initial wish. In the end, probably best for the nice cars to be dispersed to a few collections or co0llectors where they can enjoy their next life. 

 

Well said!

 

One point that remains to be seen is if the municipality loses money. If the collection sells for the estimated $4M, I suspect they will end up in the black on this.

[D Yaros]

On 2/1/2018 at 4:57 AM, trimacar said:

This is a pure money grab by the town, from what I can see.  They have no less than 10 festivals they advertise for the town, so there's money flowing, they just don't want any flowing to the old cars. 

 

The man left cars, land, and money to build the museum.  One would sure think his lawyers would have included some kind of clause that the city had to keep it open for a certain period of time.  One would also think that there is additional monies from his estate that could be used to fund the museum staying open, but if that's the case the city and city's politicians are greedy and doesn't want to lose that too.

 

 

http://www.shipshewana.com/attractions.php

 

My understanding is the agreement between Hostetler and the city mandated that the museum be kept open during his lifetime.

[Joe in Canada]

On ‎01‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, mikewest said:

There are way to many wonderful cars locked up.  Set them free!

I was wondering about this statement. Are the smaller museums of the earlier vintage actually having difficulty's financially?  Are museums dedicated to orphan cars have a greater chance of closing as well as collection's of pre war?  What would happen if a majority of the museums closed their doors and sold off the inventory?  Would the volume of cars being on the market affect the price? Would the buyers of these cars already have earlier cars so the period would not actually create much new interest?

[alsancle]

All museums are financially almost impossible to make work.  Without a huge endowment (think Nethercutt) or a super supportive and active board it is only a matter of time before they bite the dust.

[nick8086]

Never donate. If you want to get rid of it just sell it..

 

The only time we donated a car was we would list them for sale no one would buy them.. We got a high $$ if we donated it..

 

This only works if you need a tax write off...

[CarFreak]

Was in the area and visited the Gilmore Museum again yesterday afternoon.  Been there dozens of times and never get tired of it.  What a wonderful place!!! 

 

As someone mentioned, these museums do rely on generous donors.  Fortunately the Gilmore does have many 'heroes' who allow it to thrive and flourish. 

 

Additionally, they have created a business model where car clubs, other groups can construct their own building on the Gilmore property, fill it with vehicles, collectibles, etc.  An annual maintenance fee is assessed to cover taxes, utilities and other costs. 

 

The Gilmore provides staff to oversee these buildings, keep them clean, cars dusted, tires full and so on.  Pretty neat idea and seems to work for the Cadillac & LaSalle Club Museum, Lincoln Museum, Pierce Arrow Society, Classic Car Club of America, Franklin Club and Model A Club Museum. 

[dei]

My Dad and I went to the Hudson Museum many years ago and found it a great collection with the owner very engaging for the short two hours we were there as a car group. One could tell he was in his element!

I would hope the City/Town fathers would do themselves a service to the public (which they were elected to serve?) by considering a donation/agreement with the likes of the Gilmore. I'm sure it is complicated but anything can be worked out when rational heads prevail.

 

I can confirm that museums are not profit generating ventures too as I belong to a Car Club here in Ontario, Canada and sat as Secretary for two years. We were very lucky if to break even each year. Fund rising events, private donations, selling ads for an Area Events Guide and many, many Volunteer hours by Members and interested Public have been happening for almost 45 years.

In fact it was just published in the Bulletin this month that last year alone there was over 6,700 recorded Volunteer hours ! 

With a 25,000 square foot heated Museum display area of antique cars, 5,000 square foot event hall, 100 acre site which has 22 historic locally significant buildings (requiring constant maintenance) and grounds keeping, minimum number of paid Staff etc... with very minimal Government Grants, it takes an often unappreciated effort to keep this going.

 

I also live in a City that a factory worker left his estate to (worth over a million dollars at that time) who stated in his will that it was to be spent towards a Local Heritage Museum in honour of his name and the City in which he lived. 

They had a copy of the will on display there which was not as specific as one would think making spending that money very controversial. The process took many years to come to fruition as legalities and financial plans were worked out. 

It finally opened last year on the first floor of our City Art Gallery on the Detroit Waterfront which now seems to be a good sharing compromise as compared to a stand alone Museum building. While there are no actual cars in this Museum, it does give great credit to Windsor's Auto heritage amongst our important History waaay back in the development of Canada.

With a population of 200,000 we were fortunate to have City Fathers that invested the original million dollars while this process developed and fortunately returned about three million to work with. 

I was just there this past week and it was a well spent three hours of a man's desire to honour his interests of the history of Windsor.

 

I truly hope the Hudson collection can remain whole and honour both the Collector and the Cars! 

[jeff_a]

Nowhere does it say how many cars are in the Hostetler Collection, aside from the 22 that were overflow going to the Gilmore. 25? 100? Or if it´s the only Hudson Museum in the country. Some states have museum accession/deaccession laws, which could affect the ability to disperse any artifacts. Well, they waited 11 or 12 months(after the donor died) to move on the collection. The Town Center being sold off sounds strange, too. Is the investment company that bought it wanting the museum to go, and will they get bigger digs or make a buck off it?

Edited February 4, 2018 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

13 hours ago, nick8086 said:

Never donate. If you want to get rid of it just sell it..

The only time we donated a car was we would list them for sale no one would buy them.. We got a high $$ if we donated it..

This only works if you need a tax write off...

 

--Or, you could lend it to a museum for a specified period of time.

That way, if anything happens to the museum, you still have the car.

 

I understand that newer tax rules aren't so lenient:

The tax write-off is only the amount for which a 

charity sells the car.

 

But the best way to share the car with the public, I think,

is to drive it and show it yourself.  While you're enjoying it,

you can explain it to onlookers at the ice-cream stand,

or at the show on the town square.  The owner standing with

his car can be a lot more informative than a stationary museum display.

Edited February 4, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

5 hours ago, jeff_a said:

Nowhere does it say how many cars are in the Hostetler Collection, aside from the 22 that were overflow going to the Gilmore. 25? 100? Or if it´s the only Hudson Museum in the country. Some states have museum accession/deaccession laws, which could affect the ability to disperse any artifacts. Well, they waited 11 or 12 months(after the donor died) to move on the collection. The Town Center being sold off sounds strange, too. Is the investment company that bought it wanting the museum to go, and will they get bigger digs or make a buck off it?

I'd guess there are between 40 and 50 cars at the museum.

 

What's sad about this is Hostetler donated $1 million in property and money to the city. Had the money gone to the Gilmore to begin with, there would probably be a nice building and funds to maintain the cars.

 

Here's a picture to give you a sense of what's there. 

[jeff_a]

Buick64C,

Thanks for the nice photo. I like the brick floor and the black town car. Must be a 1930 LeBaron Great Eight. Back on June 29th, the Great Race stopped at the Hostetler Hudson Museum in Shipshewana, and an article in The Goshen News said there were 50 cars inside. 

photo: Roger Schneider and The Goshen News , 7/5/17

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

Jeff,

 

Here's a few more. The Town Car has a Murphy Body.

[Studemax]

They're closing..... No controversy.

[8E45E]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 5:49 AM, Mikefit said:

Wouldn't it be cool if all bidders if and when they have an auction all bidders would agree to not bid over say $500.00 for each car. Would be a wake up call for the town fathers LOL

I remember that happening in those farmers' foreclosure auctions back in the '80's when all a particular farmer's friends from nearby would purposely cap their bids at a lowball amount so the banks would receive next to nothing.  Sometimes when that happened, the bank walked away, leaving the destitute farmer remaining with his goods.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

I posted a few photos of his cars here:

 

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?65704-Orphan-of-the-Day-09-28-1956-Hudson-Hornet-Custom

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66391-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-24-1911-Hudson-33\

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?65186-Orphan-of-the-Day-1953-Hudson-Wasp-Hollywood

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67186-Orphan-of-the-Day-11-26-1947-Hudson-Super-Six-pickup

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66243-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-18-1929-Hudson-Super-Six

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?65762-Orphan-of-the-Day-09-30-1929-Hudson-Model-L

 

Craig

[8E45E]

A few more photos:

 

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67318-Orphan-of-the-Day-12-01-1938-Hudson

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67237-Oprhan-of-the-Day-11-28-1930-Hudson-Super-Six

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?67296-Orphan-of-the-Day-11-30-1948-Hudson

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66751-Orphan-of-the-Day-11-09-1929-Essex-Boattail-Speedster

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66700-Orphan-of-the-Day-11-06-1931-Hudson-Model-T-Roadster

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66718-Orphan-of-the-Day-11-07-1929-Hudson-Touring

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66412-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-24-1938-Hudson

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66466-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-26-1935-Hudson

 

Craig

[8E45E]

A few more for good measure:

 

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66434-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-25-1928-Hudson

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66267-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-19-1911-Hudson

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66074-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-12-1929-Hudson-Super-Six

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66024-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-10-1929-Hudson-Essex-Mail-Truck

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?65886-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-05-1936-Hudson

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?65842-Orphan-of-the-Day-10-03-1946-Hudson-Super-6

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?65568-Orphan-of-the-Day-09-23-1921-Hudson-Super-Six

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?65534-Orphan-of-the-Day-09-22-1937-Railton

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?64432-Orphan-of-the-Day-08-18-1937-Railton

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?64399-Orphan-of-the-Day-08-17-1942-Hudson  (My favorite!!)

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?66914-Orphan-of-the-Day-11-16-1937-Hudson-Custom-8

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?64633-Orphan-of-the-Day-08-24-1933-Terraplane-Sedan-Delivery  (Another favorite!)

 

Craig

 

 

 

[60FlatTop]

On 2/1/2018 at 2:32 PM, Gunsmoke said:

So often well intentioned municipal officials, for either political of emotional reasons take on projects that are bound to be losers in the long term.

 

I here they got an extension on the federal budget. Maybe municipalities should be consider "gateway" projects.

[jeff_a]

Buick64C,

 

Thanks for the photos of the Hudson Town Car, the ute, and the dual cowl phaeton. I must say, Murphy did a great job on the coachwork back in ´28.

[R Walling]

 If they lost $100,000 last year, why not just sell $200,000 worth of cars and keep it going for another year?

[auburnseeker]

21 minutes ago, Roger Walling said:

 If they lost $100,000 last year, why not just sell $200,000 worth of cars and keep it going for another year?

That's the common man's sensible way of looking at things.  Now put on your governmental glasses and look at it in their eyes.  

Besides the one article touted a 5 year shortfall of something like 500G to 1.5 million.  That's quite a "range"  

I also thought the town center that housed it,  was to be used for festivals and other events.  Were they charging anything for any of those events,  or was the museum suppose to cover everything?   

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 If they lost $100,000 last year, why not just sell $200,000 worth of cars and keep it going for another year?

 

Actually, the article I linked to in Posting #7 mentioned that the

museum lost $150,000 a year in fees from the innkeeper's tax.

It sounds to me as if the Hostetlers had worked everything out,

having thought about the funding to keep the museum going.

(Who would set up a showing of his prides and joys and overlook funding?)

 

However, I gather that the town didn't appreciate the museum and took 

away that main funding source, using questionable reasoning. 

Then the town stacked the museum board so they would have

a needed 3/4 majority vote to disband.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Durant Mike]

Several years ago I took my East Coast Chapter of the Durant Motors Automobile Club to this museum. What a great place, cars displayed excellently and everyone had a great time.  I have to agree with several on this forum that the town isn't much of a town at all and really looks like an intersection in the middle of nowhere.  Afterwards took the group to a small restaurant not far from the museum for lunch and across the street was a grocery store with about a dozen Amish carriages lined up, I guess doing their shopping.  I presume that the problem is not the museum like someone said but that they attached to to a type of convention center which I'm sure did not get the traffic they hoped for to pay the cost. I don't think there is even a motel in that town for that matter.  The Durant Motors Automobile Club is looking to build their museum at the Gilmore and too bad someone didn't buy this collection as a whole or donate these cars to that effort and build a Hudson museum there.  It's the best bang for the buck really and a great place to have a museum. Really ashame these cars are going to be broke up and scattered to the wind!

[D Yaros]

The town in question is Shipshewana (LaGrange Co.), IN..  It boasts a population of 658 .  And yes, it does have lodging -

http://www.shipshewana.com/