skyler Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 i bend the tabs out that hold the wheel cover on so that it is hard to get on. they do not walk then. skyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 I did pick the car up today and all went well, no hiccups. Absolutely no brakes except for the emergency brake and I knew that. I will begin removing the dust/dirt from the exterior tomorrow and will enjoy every minute as she begins to shine a little. It needs tires and the white walls measure 2.5 inches. I'm thinking I'll replace with bias tires but wondering what size white walls it should have? It was a different experience using the automatic transmission with a clutch but not a problem at all. I'll begin diagnosing/working on the brakes this next week (the brake pedal goes all the way to the floor without any resistance). Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Good to hear. I will guess you have zero brake fluid left. Could have drained out at a leak point somewhere. I just checked my car tires. They are Denman Classic IV bias ply tires. I have no idea how old they are as they were on the car when I bought it. My side whitewalls measure in at about 4" wide. Doing a quick Google search it seems Denman is no longer in business. I wonder if another company got their molds? I will be doing more research. As far as original tires, I recently bumped into this photo. It appears to me to be a 1953 Chrysler Imperial, or Crown Imperial maybe? Hopefully someone can tell us. I see rear suicide doors and what looks like a V, for (V8?) symbol on the hood. Look at those white walls. Gotta be 4" or more. Also a shot of mine to compare. Edited January 27, 2018 by keithb7 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) It sounds like the engine is running and the car is driving, good. The brakes are quite a job to do right. You need the factory manual or equivalent to do them correctly. Unlike the loose leaf brakes used on cheaper cars they are precision made and must be put together right and adjusted right but then they work very well, they were state of the art for the time. I already mentioned left hand and right hand threads, and that you need a good puller to get the back hubs off. The brakes need what they call a major adjustment when taken apart or relined to align the shoes to the drums. It helps to arc the shoes to the drums. Once this is done regular adjustments to take up wear are easy, that is called a minor adjustment. As you only have a single master cylinder you must be sure the brake lines and all parts are perfect. You can buy copper/nickel brake line by the roll or as ready made lines. This material is easier to bend and work with than the old plated steel lines and will not rust. Replace all brake lines and have no worries. Other parts like wheel cylinders, brake shoes etc are available from NAPA and other good parts stores. You may need to find an old gray haired or bald headed counter man in an old dusty parts store. There is a good chance the shiny new store on the main street with the kid behind the counter with purple hair and a snot ring, won't know what the hell you are talking about. Edited January 27, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: It sounds like the engine is running and the car is driving, good. The brakes are quite a job to do right. You need the factory manual or equivalent to do them correctly. Unlike the loose leaf brakes used on certain cheap cars, they are precision made and must be put together right and adjusted right but then they work very well, they were state of the art for the time. I already mentioned left hand and right hand threads, and that you need a good puller to get the back hubs off. The brakes need what they call a major adjustment when taken apart or relined to align the shoes to the drums. Once this is done regular adjustments to take up wear are easy, that is called a minor adjustment. As you only have a single master cylinder you must be sure the brake lines and all parts are perfect. You can buy copper/nickel brake line by the roll or as ready made lines. This material is easier to bend and work with than the old plated steel lines and will not rust. Replace all brake lines and have no worries. Other parts like wheel cylinders, brake shoes etc are available from NAPA and other good parts stores. You may need to find an old gray haired or bald headed counter man in an old dusty parts store. There is a good chance the shiny new store on the main street with the kid behind the counter with purple hair and a snot ring, won't know what the hell you are talking about. Oh, Rusty.....the last paragraph almost had me rolling on the floor....I'm still laughing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Bias ply wide whites recommended. If you mean to drive the car a lot, you may want to go for the wide whitewall radials. These are expensive tires. If the budget is a consideration buy the cheapest radials you can find, they will still be better than anything they had in 1953. The reason for buying cheap tires is that they are narrower than more expensive ones of the same size and closer to the dimensions of the original tires. Walmart's Marshal 791 tires are great for this reason, if they are still available. Caswell makes a white wall tire paint. I understand they also make 80 series light truck tires that would be suitable for your car. 215 80R15 215 75R15 as narrow as you can find. Edited January 27, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Here's a few more pics after I got the car home. The pic of the girl and man are the last two owners..father and daughter, taken about 10 years ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 What a handsome car and a handsome couple beside it. Can't wait to see it all shiny with a good wash and polish. I see you have the optional tinted glass by any chance does it have air conditioning? Chrysler was the first postwar car to have air con in 1952. In 53 only Chrysler and Cadillac had it, after that it was offered on cheaper makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I went to a local Auto Parts store to get new sparkplugs for my ‘53. The young guy behind the parts counter looked in his computer. Nothing listed. He said “sorry not available.” I said go get your NGK book. He frowned a bit, I suspect because he never used the printed books much. In the old days the parts counter had massive collections of parts books and micro-fiche. A good parts guy could flip those pages like mad and get you what you needed pretty quick. He grabbed the NGK book. He still had no luck finding any cars listed before 1966 or so, I think it was. Nor could he cross the number on my old sparkplug that I brought in with me. By now I’d had enough. I asked him to let me look in the book. I found the vintage car section. I quickly found my car and plug info. I gave him the part number. Sure enough, they had them in stock. He was awfully quiet. Next I said, “Oil filter for same car please.” Again “not in the computer,”, he replied. On the filter I had done my research on-line before leaving home. I had the Fram part number. I gave it to him. Sure enough, in stock. The good news is they had the parts in stock. The bad news seems to be that its hard to find good help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 To be fair we are talking about a 65 year old car. I bet the kid could look up plugs for a 2015 Toyota in a jiffy - if you gave him model, make, year, engine size, transmission, and serial number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 DeSoto offered AC in 1942! It's shown in the 42 DeSoto sales brochure. Chrysler most likely too. That's a great looking NewYorker. There will be a frame mount brake booster under the drivers seat too.. just so you will know! Kinda a problem to find someone to rebuild it if and most likely will be necessary. If it fails the engine will suck all the brake fluid out of the master cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) C49er are you sure that is not the Treadlevac used on Packard Cadillac and other GM cars? I think the Chrysler booster was a different design not prone to this fault? Good idea to check the vacuum line and one way valve if the power brakes do not work correctly. Master cylinder may be accessed thru a hole in the floor on the driver's side just ahead of the seat. Roll back the carpet and there is a plate held down by Philips screws. Maybe the brakes will work if you top up the fluid, you never know your luck. Packard offered air con in 1939, they get credit for having it first. That is why I said Chrysler was the first postwar AC car, in 1952. Within 2 or 3 years everyone copied the Chrysler Airtemp system. Edited January 27, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I was quite amused when I read through the A/C section of the ‘53 factory service manual. I had no recollection of ever seeing a car with rear trunk mounted A/C. Blowing cold air out vents under the back window. I’m new to all this old stuff. Pretty neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: C49er are you sure that is not the Treadlevac used on Packard Cadillac and other GM cars? I think the Chrysler booster was a different design not prone to this fault? Good idea to check the vacuum line and one way valve if the power brakes do not work correctly. Master cylinder may be accessed thru a hole in the floor on the driver's side just ahead of the seat. Roll back the carpet and there is a plate held down by Philips screws. Maybe the brakes will work if you top up the fluid, you never know your luck. Packard offered air con in 1939, they get credit for having it first. That is why I said Chrysler was the first postwar AC car, in 1952. Within 2 or 3 years everyone copied the Chrysler Airtemp system. The Chrysler 1949-54 frame mount booster is called a Vacu-ease brake booster. A Kelsey Hayes unit. There is a early 1949 internal valve style and the later 1950-54 external valve style booster. I have worked on quite a few of these over the years .There are a couple seals that prevent engine vacuum from sucking brake fluid out of both the booster and then the master cylinder.... old seals will leak sooner or later! And yep Rusty.... Packard was the first pre- war AC ... then post war.... Chrysler was first in 1953 . Those Chrysler early systems are big and bulky... have done a 56 300B and a 60 Crown Imperial... don't want to do anymore Edited January 27, 2018 by c49er Additions (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Bigtwin, every additional pic that you show us, that car looks more and more like a true gem!! I am envious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Chrysler offered air con in 1952, Cadillac in 1953. You are correct that Packard was first. Did not know about DeSoto in 1942, did any other Chrysler products have it that year? Packard deserves credit for the first, but the system was not fully developed and started no trends. It was the 52 Chrysler that was the breakthrough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Never heard about Chrysler cars having AC in 1952. The AC in a S10 DeSoto... Edited January 27, 2018 by c49er (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 C49er the only evidence I have for Chrysler air in 52 is a Popular Mechanics magazine article. When I saw it I was surprised and checked the date of the magazine, it was 1952 and it showed a 1952 Chrysler which as you know, is quite different looking from a 53. Sorry I can't come up with something more substantial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 No issues Rusty! It would be cool if Bigtwin's car did have AC though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Even the tinted glass will be nice to have in Texas. Air can be added to that car if he wants, the engine will easily handle the extra load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 6 hours ago, c49er said: No issues Rusty! It would be cool if Bigtwin's car did have AC though No AC in the car..I'm glad, just another system to repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 I washed the car twice and couldn't resist, backed it out on the drive and drove down our private drive and back, about 400 yards. Took it real slow since all I have is an emergency brake. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) Looking good! We’d love to see bay engine bay shots! I was shopping for tires today. Check these out. 4” Whitewall. http://www.lucasclassictires.com/760-15-General-Dual-90-4WW-166p.htm Edited January 28, 2018 by keithb7 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Here's my rear wheel puller. 3 arm. Search brake drum puller on Ebay. Can be had for about $50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 thanks Keith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retiredmechanic74 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, keithb7 said: Here's my rear wheel puller. 3 arm. Search brake drum puller on Ebay. Can be had for about $50 Be very careful when striking that puller with a hammer, I still have a piece of that same kind of puller in my eye. I got it while working on a 53 back in the 60's. Edited January 31, 2018 by retiredmechanic74 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/28/2018 at 9:09 AM, keithb7 said: Looking good! We’d love to see bay engine bay shots! I was shopping for tires today. Check these out. 4” Whitewall. http://www.lucasclassictires.com/760-15-General-Dual-90-4WW-166p.htm The car current has Coker Classic tires on it, 8.00x15's Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, retiredmechanic74 said: Be very careful when striking that puller with a hammer, I still have a piece of that same kind of puller in my eye. I got it while working on a 53 back in the 60's. thanks for the reminder about eye safety! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) You can often rent pullers from auto supply stores and tool rental shops. Saves buying an expensive tool you only need every 10 or 20 years. Get the biggest puller you can find. Edited January 31, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) I don't see any rust or peeling paint on that car. If you give it the clay bar, polish and wax treatment it should shine up like new. It's a lot of work but only needs to be done once. After the polish wax it right away as the paint can deteriorate and turn dull in a few days. As I said before build up 4 coats of wax for best shine and protection, every coat gets easier and easier to apply. I have done them so slick you could toss a clean rag on the roof and it would slide across the roof, down the windshield, across the hood and down on the ground. All done by hand, no buffer. One was a red car that was so faded it looked like primer, when I was done it looked like a brand new car at a car show. On a car that big you can spend several days restoring the finish BUT this will save you from a $10,000 paint job. Once it is done it is a breeze to wash polish and wax once or twice a year. A good wax job will last a long time especially if you park under cover. Edited January 31, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 ..... just remember that trees are not cover. They contain birds (if you keep the mammalian predators under control) and also drip sap, leaves, pollen and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: I don't see any rust or peeling paint on that car. If you give it the clay bar, polish and wax treatment it should shine up like new. It's a lot of work but only needs to be done once. After the polish wax it right away as the paint can deteriorate and turn dull in a few days. As I said before build up 4 coats of wax for best shine and protection, every coat gets easier and easier to apply. I have done them so slick you could toss a clean rag on the roof and it would slide across the roof, down the windshield, across the hood and down on the ground. All done by hand, no buffer. One was a red car that was so faded it looked like primer, when I was done it looked like a brand new car at a car show. On a car that big you can spend several days restoring the finish BUT this will save you from a $10,000 paint job. Once it is done it is a breeze to wash polish and wax once or twice a year. A good wax job will last a long time especially if you park under cover. The car is being stored inside, never to be outside overnight, as long as I have the car. I plan on using Klasse AIO (all in one) and then following up with Klasse sealant. I'll apply both with a Porter cable 7424 but my old backing plate for the 7424 had deteriorated and I have a couple on order. I did receive the shop manuals today and already referenced the "brake" section. I washed it a couple times using the two bucket method and used clay bar. To my surprise, the clay bar picked up very little. I checked the master cylinder and it was dry as a bone. I added brake fluid and pumped the brake pedal many times but the fluid isn't moving from the MC. What should be my next step in working on the brakes? Do I need to bleed the MC in order for it to pump the fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Brake piston is most likely stuck. It is possible to get it to move by removing the brake line and giving a blast of compressed air. But this does not really fix anything. If it was mine I would not feel safe until I took the brakes apart, inspected and rebuilt everything. In your case it may be possible to hone the cylinders and put in new seal kits as you are in a dry climate. If there is rust inside the cylinders they will need to be replaced unless the pitting is very minor. Wheel cylinders, master cylinder, booster and brake lines are key. Worn shoes should be replaced on general principles (the glue separates after a long period of time). Flex hoses too. Brake drums may or may not need to be turned, this is fairly obvious on inspection. I don't like to turn them if there is only minor wear or scoring. New ones are not so easy to get these days. Brake lines should be replaced with new copper nickel lines especially if they show signs of rust or wear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) I am going over the brakes almost entirely this winter on my '53. The unknown life of my brakes, the single master cylinder, and living up on a hill, has me a little nervous. So I am tearing into almost everything. My shoes and drums show well and will be reused. Cylinders all to be rebuilt. A couple I am replacing with new. Master cylinder seal kit is on hand here and will be done soon too. Some examples of what to expect are below. I am installing some new brake lines as well as all new flex hoses. I'm still pondering how to remove and replace the front brake lines, with the engine still in the car. Anyone done this? Pain in the butt or not too bad? I did experience some brake dragging too this past summer. I hear this is also a common problem with these old cars with brakes that need service. The rear brake lights stay on for a while after you park, until the brake pressure releases. A rotten flex hose has been mentioned as one culprit. Or a dragging master cylinder. As Rusty said, I suppose it is best to get in there and do it all then you won't be worried or back in there again soon. Dot 2 and Dot 3 Brake fluid by nature absorbs moisture. It causes internal corrosion to form inside your brake lines and cylinders. This is why manufacturers recommend brake fluid be flushed out and replaced every 4 years or so. I think you said your car had been sitting for 10 years @Bigtwin. Likely there is internal rust. Brown color brake fluid is a symptom. Seen here in my front lower wheel cylinder. Here is a rear wheel cylinder. The black, from my understanding is from the rubber piston seals. It can be removed with a light hone. What is a problem is pitting from rust on the cylinder walls. Stainless steel sleeve inserts have been mentioned and sound like a pretty a good idea. I just bought some new modern reproduction brake cylinders. For the 1,000 miles I drive per year they should last a while. Here is a rear assembly Cylinder seen at the top. Here is a front. Dual cylinders with a steel line connecting the two. Edited February 1, 2018 by keithb7 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 hours ago, keithb7 said: Stainless steel sleeve inserts have been mentioned and sound like a pretty a good idea. Advice on these fora recently is to make sure you put them back together with brake cylinder lubricant. You will have stainless steel with aluminium pistons so if there is any moisture in there (e.g. hydroscopic brake fluid), the aluminium will corrode (galvanic corrosion) and stick in the cylinder if you don't use the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Spinneyhill mentions corrosion between aluminum and stainless steel. For this reason I prefer brass sleeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: Spinneyhill mentions corrosion between aluminum and stainless steel. For this reason I prefer brass sleeves. It depends on the stainless steel and the brass. Types of brass are at positions 48, 51, 60 of the galvanic series. Types of SS are at 28, 32, 38-43, 53, 57, 61, 64-78. Al types are at positions 6 to 26. The nearer the two types of metal are, the less galvanic corrosion there will be. (http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm) I have brass sleeves. The pistons corrode fairly quickly if I don't use the car. Next time I clean them out, I will use brake cylinder lubricant in the assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Bigtwin, any updates on your Chrysler New Yorker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtwin Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 No sir. I’m waiting on the title before moving ahead. I’m assuming the owner has filed for a lost title. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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