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1922 Fiat 501 Targa Florio


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Today is Sunday here in Southern Australia so I had better be nice to everyone (for a change).

I finally have got around to fitting the Differential into the rear axle housing but first a "Trap for young players" or what is wrong with this photograph? The first is I am happy to say NOT MINE. But some unknown persons rather brutal attempt to remove the Diff centre from a rear axle housing. The next photograph you could be excused for thinking "That has to be wrong!" but NO as the third photograph shown the Diff safely fitted up and the securing stud's and nuts "on the way".

Fortunately I had been fore-warned by a "video" shown on another website  showing that this was the essential first step in assembly  of a Fiat 501 rear axle. The only way to assemble this rear axle is by first pushing the diff centre into the axle housing at 90 degrees to its final position. With it pushed hard up against the flange it can then be turned to the correct position and the retaining studs complete with spring washer and nut screwed in. Dismantling is the reverse procedure. Not the total destruction method as used with the diff shown in the first photograph.

Bj

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Like many others, no doubt, I look forward to the results of your efforts. Reading this thread I am just sad that my friend Alan Roberts, who knew 501s inside out and backwards, is longer with us to guide you in your endeavours.

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As promised here are todays photographs of the rear axles and the bearing retaining mechanism.

Fortunately I have  one or two spare halfshafts but just the two bearings and their oils seal etc. 

Don't feel to badly about your inability to offer assistance, I find that experience is still the best teacher!

That the need to "nut" things out keeps my brain stimulated and working, while many of the men my age 

have settled down into their armchairs to moulder away, I would much sooner be out in my garage solving

the puzzles that these funny old cars keep throwing at me.

"While Rome was not built in a day; they are still using many of the same techniques building today."

I may have to visit my friendly local shoe repair man to get some new leather for the oil seals.

 

Bj.

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, oldcar said:

Good afternoon

I trust that you have all had an enjoyable nap and are feeling refreshed and bright eyed. For now we will not go as far as to say "Bushey tailed!

Having cleaned up both the "good" half shafts I owe everyone in the design department of Fiat during the early 1920s a sincere apology.

There it is as clear as mud in your eye. Anyone fluent in French or Italian will tell you straight away. After looking at the attached photograph taken just minutes ago how many of you can tell me what they can see and what is the significance.

 

Bj.DSCN6069.thumb.jpg.8f1263ae2ce2006f8c30f1d292cf0e62.jpg

 

 

Good morning Bernie,

 

The only thing I would remotely be fluent in with respect to French or Italian would be food and/or alcohol related.  But with the help of google ;-), I would say those are marked for right and left.

 

Frank

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S - Sinistra - as in Sinister for Left. Apparently Lefties are considered sinister in Italy.

D- Destra is for Right hand thread

 

You need one of each because the drag needs to act to tighten.

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I hope a bit of humour is not frowned on here...?

Posh gent who likes his golf get invited to play a round out at a country course he hasnt been to before - takes off in his 30s convertible RR. Decides to stop for fuel at a little one bowser garage to ensure he gets home. The boy there has never seen such a car before, and is fascinated, and finally, after inspecting all the wheels, asks 'What year UNDO is this '? Then he notices a row of golf tees on a rack on the running board, and asks what they are for. "They are for putting your balls on when you are driving" says the owner. "They thought of everything, didnt they!" exclaims the boy.

jp 26 Rover 9

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Hey Berny, the 501 cylinder head had the spark plugs offset to the side of each cylinder, where as a 503 cylinder head had them evenly spaced which was much better for combustion efficiency and torque! There was also whats known as a Ricardo cylinder head developed before the 503 came out, which had the even plug spacing, and the combustion chamber was smaller which bumped the comression ratio up and gave a bunch more torque. I haven't heard of any plug depth differences, but haven't compared the heads myself either! From what I understand the 503 head adopted this combustion chamber design. The way to tell is the 501 head is ballooned out, while the Ricardo/503 head is chamfered over the piston (and the plugs are evenly spaced). Both are interchangable on a 501 block, but the head gasket needs to suit the cylinder head from what I've been told.

 

While im at it, the 503 oil pump has a bigger capacity over the 501 and its reccomended to be installed in conjunction with the head. You can visually tell the difference as the 501 pump has a flat base, while the 503 bulges out. Hope that helps!

 

Brodie

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Bernie,

My dad used to say 'All the world is strange cept thee and me, and sometimes I am not too sure about thee!'.

My impression of side valve heads from Ricardo is that there is a large squish area over the piston to improve turbulence and gas movement. Reading up on Ricardo's work is very rewarding, as he pioneered many important developments (eg thermostats to speed up warming), and his company is still doing leading edge stuff.

Could the thicker head have bigger coolant passages inside to improve flow? 

jp 26 Rover 9

PS Have you seen this item from 1951? Alloy Ricardo head added !

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/july-1951/25/modernising-501-fiat

Edited by jp928 (see edit history)
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Crossflow head with some huge exhaust ports! Wonder why they didn't design an individual runner system for the intake, versus using the siamesed ports?

 

Still, a really neat piece. Did he send you any pics of the combustion chambers Bernie?

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Thats a decent size drum Bernie! My rover also has 2 foot and 2 hand brake shoes per drum at the rear, but they occupy roughly a quarter of the circumference each, rather than widthways like yours. Can you advise where I might get woven linings please, as mine has bonded linings that I suspect are too hard to be effective, and I have a few hills between me and civilization ?

thanks

john 26 Rover 9

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Congrats Berny, a massive milestone! Not long now and you'll be driving it around with a milk crate clamped to the chassis like I did! 

 

As for the difference, is the left hand spring mounted back to front? The rear hanger is at a different angle compared to the right one!

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I realise you have completed much excellent work on getting where the fiat is today. I thought your quiz was to spot the differences between the two photos in your post 270. As you said it's not one shot from the left and the other from the right. No need to be condescending to myself.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, oldcar said:

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That's OK with me, but looks a little unconventional. That is a pulley, with the cable taking off straight from it's top, but at the bottom the cable takes off to the side of the pulley? If it is what I think I see then unusual wear on the pulley is what one would expect.

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