oldcar

1922 Fiat 501 Targa Florio

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Chatting over lunch with my son Steve, we decided that I must be totally mad; To pull a component part of an old motor car apart then put it together again within a given time, say a month or two, is more or less a breeze. To pull it apart and leave it that way, takes very little or no brains at all.

To knowingly go out and buy a car that was taken apart by someone unknown and left for anything up to forty or fifty years and them attempt to find all the pieces and put it all back together is a sure sign of total madness. If it is not just a single component but the whole car which also happens to be an obscure  make and model, then this last option is not just madness but "Notifyable Insanity" and the person attempting this task should be put away in a padded cell..........

 

Bj.

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5 hours ago, oldcar said:

To knowingly go out and buy a car that was taken apart by someone unknown and left for anything up to forty or fifty years and them attempt to find all the pieces and put it all back together is a sure sign of total madness.

 

Bernie, this is a 'good' form of madness - a challenging madness! :) 

 

Plus, if you didn't put it back together, who would?

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Hi Paul

If you think that I am mad have a look at the photographs that I posted today on "British Cars". The scenery is something else.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Compare this photograph with #45.  I still have to replace the "screen"  but I think that you can get the idea.

The little "ball float" works the level indicator under the glass window with the brass "frame" on the outside of the sump. This is easily viewed by simply opening the bonnet (hood). The copper drain tube on the centre LH side, returns any excess oil splash fed to the valve chamber. The copper tube across the rear of the sump delivers oil from the pump underneath the left hand rear corner to the distribution gallery in the crankcase feeding the main and big end bearings. Oil pump drive is from the rear of the camshaft. The pump drive then goes down through the hole in the top of LH rear corner of the sump to the pump obscured from view in this photograph.

Bj.

DSCN5901.thumb.jpg.1ee86a87afa1103d263eeabb3855e4c6.jpg

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One more little step forward with the motor. Even better news our friendly sand blaster delivered the chassis wheels etc back this afternoon so I cannot complain about having nothing to do. You can tell that the motor is a high performance one ex the factory by the way that the fixing screws for the mesh were all cross drilled to take the "tie wire" to stop them from unscrewing at high revs.  Oops! I will have to go back and start again! Not all the screw-driver slots are perfectly aligned.

Oh bother! That means indivdually machining all the washers to the correct thickness so that the screw-driver slots all line up when they are tightened down......... That could take days if not weeks or perhaps even months. These things simply must be ticketedie-boo!

Bj.

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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So your blaster not only blasts the parts, but also primes them? That is a nice service.

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Not only all that but he also picks up and delivers for "special" clients.

 

Now all those people (under forty five) with spacious air conditioned workshops, AND with all the latest in power tools,  "shadow boards" with all their spanners set out is perfect size order, of course clinically clean and with perfect lighting, hot and cold running water etc etc, please take note!

Remember too that I am a 1936 model and probably ready for the scrap-heap.

 

Bj.DSCN5905.thumb.jpg.632b2c1a2edaf677334c782758faec0c.jpg

  • Haha 1

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Nope!  Can't be ready for the scrap heap yet!!  You still have a car to finish.  

 

Keep up the good work young man, you are an inspiration to us!

 

Frank

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Thank you Frank,

I note that you are a 1958 model, your oldest car is just a cople of years Older than you and I doubt that any of your three cars would have started their life with you as "basket-cases". Having said all that, it is not intend to be criticism. It is more likely jealousy on my part. In the past I used to describe myself as an "impecunious enthusiast" but very few people understood exactly what that meant, so I just gave up and concentrated on the job in hand.  I guess that is what I will continue doing. After all I cannot be seen to be "letting the side down". I still have a few goals to score.  The worse part is that with so many wrinkles, I have to scrub so much harder when I wash up at the end of the day!

 

Bernie j.

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You are correct on my vintage Bernie, however my 55 TBird was/is indeed a basket case.  :lol:

 

Definitely no offense taken and I can feel your pain to a certain extent.  I do realize I am lucky with the aftermarket support, but finding some TBird specific parts has been a bit of a challenge.  Since I am a cancer survivor my attitude has been that I can't afford to kick off with my projects undone.  :D

 

With respect to your scrubbing issues, you seem to clean up just fine in all the pics I have seen!  And the Mrs. lets you back in the house!!

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 And the Mrs. lets you back in the house!!

I have sent you a PM about the "C" but on that "Back into the house", only after I leave my work boots at the door.  Re the TBird, there seems to be any number of "New" ones on the road here "Down under", 
 
Bj.
Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Bernie,

 

There is another forum member working on a FIAT. Have you seen it? I found it interesting and thought maybe you would too. It is a 1918 but it looks like there may be similarities with regard to things like the oil pump, feed, copper lines and etc.

 

Article on this 1918 4 cylinder engine - fiat model 55

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)

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Hello Mike

Yes thank you,  That one is a much bigger car than the 501. Thank goodness my car does not have a magneto like that one. it has a Marelli and just for good measure I have two on the shelf. I will get around to looking at them soon. I have spent today cleaning the outside of the petrol tank and shaking a length of chain around inside it. Lots of loose rust and the outlet tap needs to be resoldered into place. Like nearly everything about the car, the petrol tap it is very nicely made and has a two position arrangement that gives a Main and Reserve position. Still need to find a filler cap for it, this has a male thread and is about 40mmin diameter. Given the Fiat's soon to be new Sporting nature, it may grow an extension to accomodate a "Quick Release" cap, although given its location this may need some thinking about. All will be revealed in the fullness of time!

 

Bernie j.

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15 hours ago, oldcar said:

All will be revealed in the fullness of time!  Bernie j.

Bernie, you sure know how to keep us coming back to your threads! :)

 

Seriously though, I'm looking forward to seeing that chassis painted Indian Red.

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So am I Paul!

I went to buy the paint on Friday afternoon but my local stockist was unable to supply Indian Red in anything bigger than a handy- man "spray can" .

I found something else to do to fill in the time over the weekend. Modifying a pair of 1932 Austin 8hp rear springs to fill the space left by the missing Fiat front spring. I have one "sorted" and ready to paint and the second pulled apart.(I need two, one for each side). They have required some serious wire brushing as they have been resting under a bush in our garden. I use a rotary wire brush attachment on my over worked angle grinder. It was also doing the hard work in cutting several of the spring leaves to the required size using an ultra thin cut-off blade. I have found it better to buy these 4 inch cut-off wheels by the box. 

 

Bj.

 

Back to work!

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Some hours later one  front  spring has been trial assembled, given a coat of primer/undercoat. Next step is to take it all apart to use as a guide for cutting a matching set of "leaves" to make up the second spring of the pair. Ultimately I will be able to assemble the front axle and springs onto the chassis.   Some time soon I will have to make some enquiries about suitable tires but not until the chassis and wheels etc receive their coat of Deep Indian Red.  

Whoever the clever (Australian) politician was who thought up the 40 hour working week really did not know what he was talking about.  A 30 hour day would be of more use.

 

Bernie j.

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7 hours ago, oldcar said:

I went to buy the paint on Friday afternoon but my local stockist was unable to supply Indian Red in anything bigger than a handy- man "spray can" .

Bj.

 

 

 

So is the Indian Red no longer available in cans, or does it just need to be ordered in?

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It realy is not a big problem, I just have to drive a little further to go to a "trade supplier" who should have it "on the shelf". If not they can make it for me. 

There is shuch a huge variety of paints and colours it must be difficult for "local'" shops to stock everything. Probably Deep Indian Red is not a big seller and I cannot expect them to stock every thing.

 

Bj.

 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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DSCN5920.thumb.jpg.a83ffd1a3f5eb163aed432d4797bbb96.jpg

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Since my last visit a couple of important decisions have been made. The first on Paint colour.

The wheels, springs and axles will be Deep Indian Red while the Chassis and Hood (Bonnet) those parts of the body that will require painting will be Kosciusko Pebble. Both colours have been especially mixed for me and I now have the formula written down just in case I require more at some time in the Future. The other major step forward is the front springs. These are now fully assembled and ready for a coat of the afore mentioned Deep Indian Red.  The Front springs will be considerably "flatter" than the original making the front of the car some what lower. Each spring is a composite of both Fiat and Austin leaves. These two springs represent about three day's work.   Now for some of Mr Wattyl's special "Kill Rust" Deep Indian Red.

Looking at the photographs of Madam Elizabeth Junek's car, the chassis and panels are a much lighter colour than the springs, axles, wheels & etc.

 

Bernie j

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Bernie, the springs look good. I do have a question, however -- looks like from the picture there six leafs 'under' the main leaf, and one 'above' the main leaf. Having a leaf above the main leaf is something new to me. Is this a typical configuration for teens/twenties autos?  

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I am not sure but I seem to remember reading something about a "helper leaf". Having checked the Fiat Rear Springs do not have one (as yet) but both the front and rear Rapier springs do. Again I would have assembled the Rapier's springs albeit a very long time ago when I first restored/rebuilt the car in 1978.

I have also been known to assemble leaf springs with one or even two leaves upside down in order to "flaten" the springs to achieve a lower ride height. (Leaf springs work both ways.)

Try putting a piece of steel strip with one end held in your bench vice. It takes the same effort to bend it in either direction.

As a bonus here is the first of the Fiat wheels with a new coat of Deep indian Red.

Super observant people will have noted that the Rapier springs have a thin strip of material inbetween the leaves. I cannot remember exactly what this thin strip was but it was an anti squeak device.

Finally The Czech  "coat of arms" to be applied as a final finishing touch to the driver side of the Fiats scuttle as a salute to Madam Junek whose car I am attempting to replicate.

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Bernie j.DSCN5921.thumb.jpg.f5f8f6188903d75a6d03f514d47140e2.jpgDSCN5922.thumb.jpg.3beda517cd2455cf8c5cd173827132ab.jpgDSCN5923.thumb.jpg.580af99b98ce668e9f33719b6be3bc86.jpgDSCN5924.thumb.jpg.a942d04a7157d2e48b2ff3dbc5b93bf3.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Happy easter to all the "Christians" among you. As It is already Good Friday (afternoon) in Australia. I am not doing anything that may disturb any of my neighbours not that I think they would care. Brushing on paint makes the minimum of noise so I have continued on painting six  of the eight wheels that I have. Three have some rust. Selecting the one with the least rust I have welded up the couple of pin holes and given it  a coat of paint on one side too. I will have to wait there or four days for this to dry properly so I can paint the other sides. Not having easy access to a compressor I am painting these by hand using a brush just like they would have done in 1922/4. This also gives me a chance to inspect these close up. I have also painted the underside of the front axle. All these are being painted Deep Indian Red. I have given one (under) coat of Kosciusko Pebble to the Bulkhead frame. This also supports the scuttle mounted petrol tank. The petrol tank still requires some more internal cleaning and the Petrol tap soldering back into place. Ultimately it too will be painted K'pebble. Perhaps contary to my overall colour scheme I have painted the three foot control pedals in D-I Red.  Ultimately they will be surrounded with Dark Red carpet. It may sound crazy to some readers having the complete colour scheme for the car worked out, but at least I know where it is all leading. It also saves on back tracking to change some detail in six months time.

 

Trust me, I have done all this once or twice before!

 

Bernie j.DSCN5925.thumb.jpg.00536a683e17fd68fa9b3074ccd4217e.jpg

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I really like where you are headed with the Fiat. We're the front axle king pins found to be in serviceable condition?

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Hello On Safari,

Even I have to have a win occasionally. The king pins and most of the spring shackle bushes are in fair to good condition. I still have to go through a couple of containers of nuts and bolts etc to sort out the shackle pins. That is still a little way down the track but hopefully it will start to go together soon.  I still have to paint the chassis frame before I start to put things together.

I sent an email to a vague acquaintance in the Czech republic this afternoon. It will be interesting if I get a reply, we have not been in touch for a number of years. Her employer had only recently acquired "Tiny Tot" a 1928 Singer Junior Roadster that I had rebuilt some years earlier. All my "restorations" receive a small engraved plate on the dash-board giving  the date and my own details, The cars "name" is painted on the leading edge of the bonnet (hood). She had managed to track me down through this.

In recent years I have learnt the hard way, that it is foolish to spend too much time and money on making things like these perfect! 

Especially for cars that end up going into a "collection".

Many never turn a wheel again unless it is to move them so that the floor underneath them can be polished! These days I tend to spend more effort on making sure that the "cosmetics" are "right". Or an I being too negative?

Little things like the correct cotton covered electrical wire, properly colour coded of course.

It seems a waste but the Fiat will have six brand new tyres with the correct Dunlop Chevron tread pattern to "stand on"............ I have a "super" pair of original headlamps, a simply wonderful original tail lamp, I am still looking for matching Amp meter, Oil pressure gauge and the correct Italian Speedo. I have a second pair of headlamps that could be good for a suitable exchange deal. I have three starter motors to sort through, two  clutches, two gear boxes etc etc.

That and a very nice Smiths 60mph speedo that I will exchange. I do have the correct "original " electrical fuse/switch box.

 

Bj. 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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